Viewing 38 posts - 41 through 78 (of 78 total)
  • Why am I such a soft **** on road bike descents
  • aldo56
    Free Member

    What sort of bike do you have? Does it fit properly?

    Get yourself out to Majorca for a week and you’ll soon get into the swing of it! Having good, long roads to practise on makes all the difference.

    zippykona
    Full Member

    The graveyard is full of heroes.

    Daffy
    Full Member

    I have far too much imagination and experience to go too fast on a descent.

    A sudden stop from 55kph thanks to a car stopped in the road around a blind bend and a front wheel washout at 65kph thanks to oil on the road means I don’t really go fast anymore.

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    Blazin-saddles
    Free Member

    tbh, i don’t really have the balls to go much over 40mph/64kph on the road. regularly touch that, but it’s just the extreme end of comfortable for me. Any faster starts to become the light end of terrifying for me and I just don’t feel in control so will temper the speed.

    You do have to give massive respect to the roadies that regularly descend at speed above 80+kph/50+mph.

    I honestly depends on the type of decent as much as anything, there’s some I wouldn’t want to haul down, but have also seen over 100kph on the right piece of road on the continent, with caliper brakes and 23c tyres too!

    wait4me
    Full Member

    it’s interesting. I got took out doing 40mph by a car pulling across me. Broken spine, very very very lucky to be walking. Life will never be the same and I’m stuck with pain every day for the rest of my life. But do I go much slower on downhills now? Well yes, maybe. But I still hit 35+ and upper 20’s off road on the cx bike. Guess I am just reckless, but I’ve always felt totally in control descending fast. Which makes the accident and the fact I had no chance all the harder to take.

    Look up, relax, think 3 steps ahead. If you’ve got 20/20 vision everything should be ok. Except the one time it isn’t.

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    It always bugs me when I read about folk breaking 50mph, it’s been a glass ceiling for me for years, might have broken it in the Alps but my computer was fried.

    How do people do it, is it a weight thing, or are you spinning out a 53/11?

    I felt immediately comfortable on a road bike, but from day one was always trying to emulate the pros e.g. on the drops, low over the bars, racing lines, always trying to lean the bike etc. etc.

    Maybe if you just practice trying to look right the rest comes naturally! 😉

    simondbarnes
    Full Member

    How do people do it, is it a weight thing, or are you spinning out a 53/11?

    It is mainly down to the hill.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    It always bugs me when I read about folk breaking 50mph, it’s been a glass ceiling for me for years, might have broken it in the Alps but my computer was fried.

    How do people do it, is it a weight thing, or are you spinning out a 53/11?

    You need the right descent and conditions.
    I can hit 40mh on almost every road ride I do (living on the edge of the Peak District is helpful for thing like that!).

    To go much over that you need longer steeper hills with good sightlines, good road surface, minimal wind (or a straight tailwind) and other favourable conditions (like minimal traffic). There’s a few places I know I can aim for 50+ mph but I’ll bail at the slightest hint of there being anything wrong.

    Fastest I’ve ever been was on the descent of the Grosglockner Pass towards Zell am See which was 66mph. That was **** terrifying but exhilarating at the same time. I didn’t dare do anything to upset the aerodynamics, the bike stability and the braking and body movements had to be so gentle to bring it down to a more controllable 45 or so. I’ve had 60+ on two occasions before that, once in the Alps and once in the Trough of Bowland on a long straight with a tailwind which required a lot of effort to bring it down to a more manageable speed before the road turned right and the wind became a crosswind. As it did so it blew me right to the very outer edge of the road.

    mcnultycop
    Full Member

    Cheers for the responses. I’m in the drops on descents and my bike fit is spot on. I’ve had two proper bike fits over the last couple of years and they have made a difference; 44cm bars and the general bike fit itself definitely improved confidence BUT I’m not happy and I feel I’m holding back.

    I guess I’ll just keep at it and try and relax a bit more.

    geex
    Free Member

    @13thfloormonk

    Try the descent from redstone rig down to whiteadder

    After the turning just gradually spin up through the gears (it’s fairly flat at the beginning) then when the gradient increases spin the cranks up to a bit over 45mph and just tuck.
    It’s doable in 50×12.

    I don’t wear a helmet though. Maybe that’s what’s holding you back 😉

    chakaping
    Free Member

    Not got time to read whole thread so apologies if repeating others’ ideas – but two points…

    – Try dropping your stem by 5mm or 10mm, might improve front-end grip and make for more confidence.

    – Are you on harsh-feeling wheels? Being able to feel every bit of grit on the road through my old Ksyriums used to make me nervous over about 50kph. Now I’m on RS81s with a much smoother feel and as a result I am more relaxed and happy to stay off the brakes to 60-plus.

    5thElefant
    Free Member

    Learn to ride a motorcycle. Then the road bike feels slow.

    Not for me. I’m more comfortable at 150 on a motorbike than 30mph on a road bike. Lycra or not.

    mcnultycop
    Full Member

    Cheers, we actually dropped the stem at my last bike fit, which does feel better.

    I’m on Hope 20 Five wheels with 28mm tubeless Schwalbe Pro Ones is nothing particularly harsh in the wheel and tyre department.

    5thElefant
    Free Member

    Have a look at tyre deformation tables. At 90 kg I couldn’t get the necessary pressure for 28s without going over the maximum pressure rating for the tyre.

    simondbarnes
    Full Member

    I can hit 40mh on almost every road ride I do (living on the edge of the Peak District is helpful for thing like that!).

    Yeah, I regularly top 60kph on my commute 🙂

    There’s a few places I know I can aim for 50+ mph but I’ll bail at the slightest hint of there being anything wrong.

    I need to explore a bit more as I’ve been topping out a bit over 70kph on local descents since moving to Macc. Maybe I should ride down The Brickworks rather than ride up it? Freewheeling down Newlands on the Fred Whitton I hit 83kph – shame I was saving my legs for all of the climbing!

    simondbarnes
    Full Member

    Have a look at tyre deformation tables. At 90 kg I couldn’t get the necessary pressure for 28s without going over the maximum pressure rating for the tyre

    What?

    90kg isn’t heavy, you shouldn’t need to be anywhere near max pressures on 28mm tyres.

    singletrackmind
    Full Member

    Look into road craft for motorbikes , you can use some of the information to help you guage how fast to go round a corner .
    Use you head more than your hands . Flying down mountains is all about vision, then hip steering , footwork , and to some extent counter steering .
    Make sure the bike is proper cranked over , heel down , pressure on insdie hand
    Get 95% ish of the braking done before the corner. Be positive on the brakes, put them on and keep on applying pressure. IMO short and firm is better than long and draggy , gives things more time to heat up.
    Be off the front brake before turn. Look and register the turn in point then ignore it your brain will record and do the calcs for you , look through and out the corner from then on
    If you feel you have gone in 5mph too hot then feather the back brake ( others may disagree but thats fine) to scrub off speed , but do not panic.
    Go in 10mph too hot and then its more luck than judjement buut using all the above with more lean angle, more torso twist , and good eye work might just save you.
    Good dependable tyres help too. I use Michelin Pro4 service course which give a good mix of longevity V grip for 200gm tyres

    Dickyboy
    Full Member

    Seems like motorcycling experience may add a bit of confidence, once you’ve been 150mph on two wheels, 50mph doesn’t seem that fast 🤔 love road descending myself

    n0b0dy0ftheg0at
    Free Member

    For just over two years, I’ve loved climbing the cat3/4 hills around Butser Hill, but there are very few descents I will not be regularly scrubbing off speed with the hydraulic brakes on my road bike.

    A number of factors off the top of my head…
    My RTA ~5.5 years ago, trying to make a jigsaw using my upper jaw and teeth.
    Many of the South Downs roads/lanes I use are not in great condition, rain often brings new stones on to the tarmac, strong winds can often knock hefty branches onto the road etc.
    Lots of barmy pheasants around who have absolutely no roadcraft, plus I’ve had deer and squirrels shoot across the road in front of me.
    Blind bends and mostly narrow lanes, plus some quality driving by motor vehicles.
    Had a lucky escape during late summer 2017, while still riding the default 25mm Grand Sport Race tyres, I understeered down a fairly steep sweeping downhill right bend near the Sustainability Centre and only just missed a tree trunk as I veered into the hedge and fell on to my left side.

    About the only descents I’ll happily not touch the brakes on are wide, mostly straight ones:-
    Beacon Hill Lane https://www.strava.com/segments/3467265
    Sheep Pond Lane https://www.strava.com/segments/4555381
    And my favourite, Mercury to Oxenbourne https://www.strava.com/segments/15769432

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    How do people do it, is it a weight thing, or are you spinning out a 53/11?

    As said above it’s more about the right hill and conditions.

    This decent in Otley I have been over 62mph. It involves having a wind behind you, a clear road and pedalling as hard as you can at the top before you run out of gears.

    You can even get around the bend at the bottom without braking as even sitting up is enough to slow you from the 60’s to 40’s mph.

    Over about late 40’s you wouldn’t want to be pedalling.

    I haven’t achieved 60+ on it for some time though as the condition of the road has deteriorated.

    https://veloviewer.com/segment/1795722

    Of course alpine descents tend to be different to UK decents. There are very few UK roads that allow speeds of 50mph + and repeated slowing for bends and repeat

    slackalice
    Free Member

    I’d say that it’s a lot to do with becoming older and wiser. You more than likely don’t want to go through another recuperation period ‘if’ you come off and maybe subconsciously or consciously your personal and financial responsibilities are of a higher priority now?

    I get the fears of a front wheel wash out, or a car pulling out or on the wrong side of the road, or stopped, or an animal appearing from the hedgerow, I call it my strong sense of survival! Risk assessment.

    Wisdom is a virtue, it’s one of the major benefits of progressing through life and applying knowledge and experience 😁

    If you really want to stay with your mates downhill, hypnotherapy.

    Blazin-saddles
    Free Member

    How do people do it, is it a weight thing, or are you spinning out a 53/11?

    Like I said before, road and conditions. I’m 85kg but on a north of 10% gradient, with an aero tuck, you’re soon up to speed. You can’t pedal at that speed without massive gears. You do however need to be confident in your kit and tyres, and that you can see a long way down the road as things come at you quickly over 100kph.

    There is also risk, which you may or may not be comfortable with. I had a big crash on the Stelvio a few years ago due to a rear tyre blowout at 50mph!

    I raced at Elite level for 15 years so a bit of speed doesn’t worry me much. I do also ride motorbikes.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Have a look at tyre deformation tables. At 90 kg I couldn’t get the necessary pressure for 28s without going over the maximum pressure rating for the tyre.

    You’re doing something wrong there I’m sure. Got a link to whatever table you’re using?

    And they’re always a compromise, there’s not one magic pressure. Most tables dont have anywhere near enough difference front-rear to get the same contact patch because half the pressure in the front would feel horrible.

    Most show the load on the wheel, so at 90kg you should be looking at the ~30kg and ~60kg numbers which would be the first obvious mistake!

    crimsondynamo
    Free Member

    It the prospect of being blindsided by a pheasant which plays on my mind, after hearing that this happened to a pal’s clubmate.

    taxi25
    Free Member

    It the prospect of being blindsided by a pheasant 

    I love a road downhill, but its the Sheep around here that get me worried 😟😟😟

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    It’s not irrational.

    Any accident you have at motorbike speeds in cycling gear isn’t going to be pretty.

    Practise emergency stops and ride within those limits, but generally trust the bike.

    singletrackmind
    Full Member

    And do not go any faster than the speed at which you would be happy breaking really hard at
    What are you going to do if you exceed
    that point then. Not brake, put a foot out, pray,

    TiRed
    Full Member

    And me obvious point. There is a world of difference between descending a closed road safe in the knowledge that nothing will be coming the other way, and a typical road with possible cars that my have no idea of the likely hazards that may befall then.

    Just take it easy, relax the arms and enjoy it. Says he who’s aerobars came loose descending the welsh gift hill at 79 km/hr in a TT. At least it is a straight dual carriageway.

    I_did_dab
    Free Member

    There is a world of difference between descending a closed road…and a typical road with possible cars

    This 100%. Especially when dozy drivers can turn across your path when you’re doing ~40 mph. Trust me it hurts. Downhill Strava KOMs on the road are for nutters in my book.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Some bikes are just better downhill, my Diverge, which is a gravel bike, with slicks on sees me at the front on group descents. My carbon roadbike is faster on the flat and up hill but shit downhill and sees me at the back of the same group ride.

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    Basically in my head I’m imagining all sorts of terrible stuff happening, so slow right down. This means on really steep descents I’m at an absolute crawl, watching my club shoot off down the hill. On one, maybe 15%+ twisty descent in the Yorkshire Dales I was absolutely terrified.

    Well, beyond all the stuff about bike fit, tyre pressures etc, it sounds like you mostly have a very pessimistic take on acceptable risk where you’re thinking more about consequences than the likelihood of something actually happening.

    It’s an interesting one. Fear is what keeps us alive. If your ability to assess the confluence between what you’re capable of doing and what you’re trying to do is faulty, stuff goes badly wrong. You see it with climbers – Joe Simpson is arguably a classic – where they have an unrealistic idea of what’s an acceptable risk relative to their own capabilities.

    Really good climbers – Leo Houlding’s a good example based on folk I’ve spoken to who’ve worked with him – have a super accurate sense of where their limits are. That means they push quite close to them, but rarely go over the edge.

    It sounds like you’re at the other end of the continuum where you’re so acutely aware of the risks involved, that it actively means you go far slower than you need to relative to your abilities. Probably.

    I don’t know how you get beyond that. I’m sure there are mental drills or strategies you could employ, but I’m not a sports psychologist. But it does sound like you’re overwhelming your risk assessment system with negative data that’s then inhibiting you. Your fear response / self preservation system arguably needs recalibrating. Too much logical brain.

    One really simple tip is, if you feel like you’re going too fast, look up and further ahead. It massively decreases the sensation of speed. Everything seems to slow down.

    That would be my take anyway. You’re thinking too hard, but you’re also thinking too hard about the wrong things.

    celticdragon
    Full Member

    You’re not the only one that’s a chicken on descending, I am too. I can tell when going 30mph as my fingers start pressing the brake levers.

    I’d love to be able to break 60kph but my brain kicks in with self preservation.

    I always ask myself, why do motorcyclists wear leathers and we wear Lycra yet we can do the same speeds?

    Road rash hurts kids!!

    alanw2007
    Full Member

    I found my downhill speeds increased after I balanced the wheels of my road bike.
    https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Silca/Speed-Balance-Kit/DRZ2

    Before, my bike with 50mm rims and long heavy valve stems always felt increasingly unhappy over 50 km/h. I rode an identical bike with shallow rims and short valve stems and it felt much calmer, a feeling I now have with the balance weights installed.

    Having said that I’m still careful about where I really let the bike go. Long sections with good visibility only, and watch carefully for gaps in hedges etc that could cause a sideways gust.

    I like this guy’s write up of how to descend.

    http://flammerouge.je/factsheets/doidescend.htm

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    As BWD says, its a mental thing you’ve got yourself into.

    I’d go somewhere with a decent variety of nice hills – smooth, relatively light on traffic, good sightlines* – and just work on relaxing, looking up, feeling the bike flow under you and just work up gradually. Freewheeeling at first then a few pedal strokes in the straight bits, then building the speed gradually and then working up to sharper bends or steeper sections.

    If possible, follow a good roadie down just to see their lines, the way they’re leaning the bike etc. Also, following someone means you’re looking up rather than at your own front wheel.

    *it may be that these hills are best found in Spain!

    nwmlarge
    Free Member

    I practice the same techniques that Tony teaches on the MTB on the road bike.

    Get used to leaning the bike and pushing the bars down to turn and you will get more comfortable with the descent speed and how to speed up and slow down.

    I built up my confidence over the years and hit 59.1MPH on the way into Brighton on the L2B a couple of years back.

    Remember that an uneven weight distribution will make one end unsettled.

    Remember the coaching.

    fossy
    Full Member

    I’m the opposite, was very good on road descending, and not great on MTB.

    I’ve given up road riding due to serious injuries, so my MTB descending is getting better, slowly !

    Just relax on a road bike, don’t death grip. You’ve got to pick the right hill to get a good speed up (e.g. no side roads, bends, good surface). I used to regularly hit 50 mph and have done 60mph in North Wales, and this is on a 90’s vintage steel bike (OK Columbus SLX and Dura Ace) and 23mm tyres.

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    Really ? Fall off on a road bike decent at 30+ and you tend to get gravel rash. Fall of on an mtb at 10mph and you break bones.

    Hmm just like Chris Froome

      didn’t

    and allegedly he’s pretty good on a bike.

    philjunior
    Free Member

    From the OP it’s clear it’s a lack of confidence.

    You’re talking about skinny tyres, needing disc brakes, and getting worried on a straight road at ~30mph.

    A decent set of slicks will grip a road better than most MTB tyres.
    30mph isn’t fast at all on a road bike.
    You don’t need disc brakes (although I’ll accept they’re probably sensible if your confidence isn’t high and you ride in all weathers).

    Basically you’re thinking like a mountain biker, but you’re riding on the road. In the dry you just need to get used to being off the brakes at least on straights, and brake before corners then off the brakes and you’ll be surprised how hard you can lean over. Obviously if you grab a handful of brake halfway round a corner you’ll give yourself a scare, you’re asking the tyres to do 2 things (there is a bit of a grey area if the road really is steep, you would have to enter some tight steep corners incredibly slow otherwise!).

    As other people have said though, it’s not necessarily irrational, get up to 50mph and have an off and it’s going to seriously hurt, whereas most of the time a fall on an MTB has little consequence. Even at 30 it’ll hurt. Just make sure it doesn’t happen.

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