And, certainly in Scotland, many of the drug-related deaths are in people who became addicted before the SNP were in power,

Seriously. Nothing to do with the SNP because they have only been in power 14 years?

Even if you’d said you weren’t clear enough about voting age, or admitted you were wrong, you’d come out of it better than that response.

Not defending any political party but we have a very serious ageing drug user problem particularly for heroin.

A huge number of Scots addicted to heroin are the same people who started using decades ago.

but we have a very serious ageing drug user problem particularly for heroin.

I hope that isnt referring to me. I gave it all up and even weed too. About 4 friends and other aquaintences overdosed and that was that. In those melancholy moments you dwell on friends from the past, the good times pre drugs through to the bad and worse times.Really hits home what there is to lose.

For me the euro is the only obvious answer. An independent currency is not needed

Pound during transition – remember scotland owns 9% of it!

9% of what? Reserves and debt? Printing presses? Threadneedle St? Mark Carney’s pension?

What’s the compatibility of UBI for iS paid in rUK pounds with the fiscal requirements of membership of the EU and a switch to the Euro?

Once iS joins the EU will all residents be eligible for UBI including temporary EU residents exercising their free movement rights?

Once iS joins the EU will all residents be eligible for UBI including temporary EU residents exercising their free movement rights?

Depends how you choose to implement benefits entitlement, contrary to belief there is no compulsion to give benefits to anyone who just rocks up on day one.

I hope that isnt referring to me.

Of course it wasn’t.

UBI is a central government initiative.

According to reserved powers, yes. But that doesn’t stop other parties having it as a manifesto commitment. If we actually got control of benefits under devolution or independence we could implement it.

I see the latest is the Kickstart scheme. Paying at the minimum wage for a maximum of 6 months

UK Gov, what’s your point? It’s nothing to do with UBI and you’ve been told that enough times now.

Plenty of places with less than 5 million and an ok economy. I don’t need an atlas as I’ve lived in a few of them thanks.
Have the EU stated Scotland can join I thought it was stated you go through the lengthy application process and see what happens. If independence is gained surely Scotland would be expected to leave stirling quite quickly as your independent.

Wait, is Stirling to be a seperate city state?

Is it near Tillicoutry?

No I don’t think it is, but I do believe it is near to Tillicoultry.

Go through the wrong but and Tillicoultry seems like a different planet let alone near another country

I see the latest is the Kickstart scheme. Paying at the minimum wage for a maximum of 6 months

Not UBI

Everyone voted then? All good talking about all this, but if you don’t vote, it doesn’t count (or it counts for the bad stuff that we already have (we tend to complain about the bad suff and rarely comment on the good stuff, so suspect there is good stuff in place as well – but we tend to vote to change the bad stuff)).

I see the latest is the Kickstart scheme. Paying at the minimum wage for a maximum of 6 months

Not UBI

deep sigh…

Yes yes I know, but the principle for it in the unemployed will amount to the same thing, as it has done an a regular basis for the last 40 years.
Lets be honest, do yo think the government is suddenly going to change and be all nicey nice ?. ‘Oh here’s free money for you in poverty and low incomes and unemployed. Work ?? naw you need not’
Theyre looking for productivity in the labour market and population, not sit on your 4r5e.

not voted yet but will later.

I’m in the Borders, so SNP 1 & 2 for me.

Anyone who votes Labour, Tory or the other Unionist parties is really voting for more Tory Sleaze & Corruption IMO.

Once iS joins the EU will all residents be eligible for UBI including temporary EU residents exercising their free movement rights?

I suspect there would be more concern about mass migration of 55/60 year olds from England using it as an early retirement plan! Clearly whilst the idea is that there are no eligibility criteria, there would need to be some way to avoid it being exploited.

Seriously. Nothing to do with the SNP because they have only been in power 14 years?

Of course, its not nothing to do with SNP – but the opposition parties getting upset about it are the ones who set Scotland off on this course! I haven’t heard any of them explain what they would actually do about it: the Conservative Manifesto says they would ask a taskforce to publish a review, and prioritise abstinence-based programmes. And efforts must be stepped up to prevent use in prisons. The labour one, says they support the (SNP) policy that WM blocked on safe consumption rooms. Both seem to believe drug use is an “education” and “rehab” issue. It shows a lack of insight on why people get involved in serious drug use: poverty, abuse, lack of aspiration, mental health, etc are really the issues.

Postal ballot went in about 3 weeks ago.

SNP and Green on the list. In Glasgow an SNP list vote is probably wasted and I’ve actually quite a lot of time for what the Greens stand for.

I’ll vote after work, SNP candidate vote, and potentially Alba on the list, simply out of a bit of mad curiosity. 🙂

@dyna-ti

I’m not going to dissect the rest of your trolling because in the absence of UBI I have the inconvenience of having to do a paid job today and you’ll just change your position to suit the argument… but these can’t go ignored:

Some believe that community service should be a requirement for receiving UBI. So you receive a basic income, but you have to work for it.

Some people believe we should reinstate hanging – but that’s not the Green Party policy either!

And UBI has its many criticisms,one of them being the staggering cost £28 billion it is thought would cost the UK.

That would be a bargain – given our welfare spend is about 10x that (pre-covid)… I highlighted earlier that the economics were where this issue lies. The reality is nobody knows what the net effect would be – more people working part-time – active happier people with less health burden? more people with cash to spend = economic growth? fewer people trapped in benefits where its barely worth working because the benefits get cut? more grandparents retiring earlier to help with child care helping parents work and freeing up jobs occupied by 60 somethings waiting for pension day? etc…

Theres also criticism that it will remove the will to work, if you’re going to get an income anyway. I expect the knock on from that is less working, less taxable income, as we’ve seen during this pandemic which nobody can deny has caused a great deficit.

the evidence from trials in Finland and Netherlands (I think – I might have wrong places) is that actually that effect is not seen. Work will still need done – so it just shifts the market dynamic so that people may expect to be paid more for it. The fine balance is getting the payment level right so that those who need it to survive are OK, but those who want luxury are motivated to work. Its not even about setting the UBI level just right, Its about the entire taxation model that needs changing to sit alongside it too. Given that higher earners in Scotland don’t seem to create much fuss about paying higher tax than the rest of the UK, perhaps the opposition would not be as widespread as you think. The green’s rethink of taxation is far-reaching – and includes the abolition of council tax and introduction of a wealth tax. That should be a vote winner for your average Scot. Failing to reform council tax (and therefore council funding) is probably my biggest criticism of the SNP – I don’t know why they ditched it as it used to be a policy – but I suspect they will blame WM for not being willing to adapt council tax relief for those on benefits to a new system!

I’m in the Highlands and will be voting snp on both ballots. It’s all about independence for me otherwise I would be voting for Andy Wightman on the list.

Yes yes I know, but the principle for it in the unemployed will amount to the same thing, as it has done an a regular basis for the last 40 years.

No it would not amount to the same thing, by default that would be something else.

Anyway, just voted.

I’m in the Highlands and will be voting snp on both ballots. It’s all about independence for me otherwise I would be voting for Andy Wightman on the list.

Andy is pro-indy isn’t he? Or do you mean you don’t expect him to get enough votes and so your vote is better placed where it might have an effect?

I’ll be going later on with 17 yr old son. I’ve no idea which way he is going to vote, but despite not being overly interested in politics he has a far better understanding of the parties and the voting system than most people 4x his age!

I’ll probably be voting, begrudgingly, for the usual SNP/Green.

Why begrudgingly? Because for the last 14 years the SNP has done nothing for the local area in terms of tangible job creation and any efforts that are made get shot down thanks to their community empowerment policies with cheerleading from the Greens, usually that wee fanny Greer. Granted the first proposal for a biomass power station was completely flawed (imported wood and coal mix) but we’ve had wind turbines, oil rig decommissioning, industrial parks etc. proposed that the vocal minority get shot down every time.

They’ve had 14 years to prepare for the end of decommissioning in Hunterston A and the end of operations in Hunterston B, the closure of Hunterston terminal and nothing. Not a single job. Clark, Baroness of Kilwinning [nae luck] (Labour MP), Gibson, K (SNP MSP), Gibson P (SNP MP) and the host of list MSP’s of all colours have done nothing to facilitate the transition. You’d think those so vocally critical of Thatcher would be less like her but there you go.

So I’m having a hard time giving any of them my vote, either way it means the status quo of one government or another giving not a single shit about the area. I don’t expect my vote would make much difference so I’m equally inclined to just spoil it instead as none of them are fit for office IMO.

Failing to reform council tax (and therefore council funding) is probably my biggest criticism of the SNP – I don’t know why they ditched it as it used to be a policy – but I suspect they will blame WM for not being willing to adapt council tax relief for those on benefits to a new system!

They are trying to accumulate votes for indyref2, any change as substantial as changing council tax makes lots of losers who may then turn away from you. The change may be needed but whilst the SNP are riding high in the polls they are focused on independence and anything that acts as a distraction is dumped. UK gov is no different on this issue revaluation or a change in system keeps getting picked into the long grass.

I suspect there would be more concern about mass migration of 55/60 year olds from England using it as an early retirement plan! Clearly whilst the idea is that there are no eligibility criteria, there would need to be some way to avoid it being exploited.

I thought the SNP were pro migration? Would Welsh and NI and Republic of Ireland be excluded?

@poly Yes Andy supports independence. I am voting both votes snp because I believe the best chance of an indy referendum lies in getting a majority of the popular vote for one single party that proposes it. I am worried that Andy might get squeezed out between those the SNP and the Greens.I don’t think getting a majority of pro indy msps in Holyrood by tactical voting on the list is valid without getting a majority of the popular vote. Therefore I won’t be voting Alba, Green, ISP, or for Andy Wightman. It’s the last one that particularly sticks in my craw as I support most of the policies Andy has proposed and on top of that he is “a man o independent mind ” which we really need in Holyrood.
Just to be clear I don’t think that those who support ALBA or are splitting their votes with the Greens, Andy Wightman, or ISP are necessarily any more or less committed to independence than I am.

I thought the SNP were pro migration? Would Welsh and NI and Republic of Ireland be excluded?

@big_n_daft – 1. Its a Scottish Green policy not an SNP one. 2. Both Scottish Green and SNP are pro-migration; you can be pro-migration without necessarily offering a free for all on your benefits system or any UBI; 3. Of course any limitations would be not just on the English – but I was thinking particularly of people in the N of England who could otherwise be very incentivised to move a very short distance to “cash in”.

In the unlikely event that the Green’s end up with enough seats to actually get this on the table then clearly there are issues to be discussed / finalised. I note that they suggest negotiating it with the WM govt even without Indy. I think if they were in a position to make that happen they’d be in a position to push Indy forward too and it would probably make sense to make those sort of changes together; a major overhaul of Tax, Benefits would actually be an argument to delay indy and see if this new approach was addressing (m)any of the issues that make people want to break free.

I’ll probably be voting, begrudgingly, for the usual SNP/Green.

God for you, that is your choice afterall.

Think I’ll probably stick to voting for the Scottish Conservatives, A leopard can’t change it’s spots and you always get that with the Tories.

Poly, put the kettle on 😕

I went tactical with SNP/Green
Would rather have a Green government but that is currently unlikely. And while I should just vote for them if that’s what I really want (adds to their credibility) instead of tactically voting (that weird chicken/egg thing) last time I did that I ended up with Ruth bloody Davidson!

Remember, if you don’t like the SNP then the best way to get rid of them is to vote overwhelmingly for them. And back that up by voting “Wur offski- see yaz” in the following independence poll.

Post independence there will be no SNP to worry about.

Maybe.

Anyway, we’ve got Borris and his English nationalists to try to deal with down here whatever the country of my birth chooses.

(Scots born, English dwelling, remainer, formerly anti/independence but I can kind of see the argument now)

Both Scottish Green and SNP are pro-migration; you can be pro-migration without necessarily offering a free for all on your benefits system or any UBI;

I’m not sure getting taxed to pay for a UBI or benefits system you don’t qualify for is an attractive offer to potential migrants….

Anyway, we’ve got Borris and his English nationalists to try to deal with down here whatever the country of my birth chooses.

You can move back and vote to make Scotland independent if you want. Must be awful to live in a country run in part by ex-pat Scots

Big_n_daft stirring up the 💩 again. To

Oh I dunno, I find it interesting BnD thinks anyone GAF that Scots have played numerous often senior roles at Westminster,  as if it makes any difference at all.

I just found it an odd statement full stop. Perhaps I didn’t understand it properly. Maybe I’m not bright enough.

That said, the English have often done well under Scots management.  Look at English football’s champions over the years – not many over the last 30 years managed by English types. Westminster has definitely gone downhill since the English took over. 😜

I think I digress though.

The in-laws have turned up at ours and announced they both voted tory.

I’ve had to leave the room and come upstairs before I end up losing the rag

I mean, our local one seems like a decent guy but..

…nah.

Still, I’d vote for him before that piece of shit Fransen.

How did you vote on the Scottish elections Big n daft? Oh wait…