It is Bob – but people keep arguing ex pats should get a vote.

Yep, you are exactly the sort of English tory I would be looking to get away from

hahaha awesome. Two sweeping assumptions without an actual clue.
How to come across a bit dim, in one easy sentence.

I just can’t get into the blue painted face, anti English Xenophobic attitude that most SNP voters I’ve met seem to have.

Strangely, I was out leafleting during this campaign with a fellow SNP member, who happens to be English. There is also the English for Indy group.
I’ve seen one or maybe two examples of anti-English behaviour that appeared on social media. These examples were rightly derided as being the actions of a handful of absolute loonballs by indy supporting folk.

Also, I’ve been on a few marches, and I didn’t see anyone with a blue face. Maybe a few bairns with little Saltires painted on their cheeks mind you.

Is it not like that anyway?

@Bobsummers No if it wis only those who live in Scotland that had a say in running Scotland we’d be independent already

Strangely, I was out leafleting during this campaign with a fellow SNP member, who happens to be English. There is also the English for Indy group.

OOooh … campaigning for the adopted country (party) 😂

hahaha awesome. Two sweeping assumptions without an actual clue.

“Everyone” south is a Tory? … 🤣

(assuming) Framing everyone as “Tory south” makes target larger, convenient and legitimate.

Scotland has its hands tied behind its back tackling drugs use and deaths as drug policies are not devolved but set by Westminster dinosaurs who are against sensible debates, legalisation, education and treatment. Only concerned with self preservation and lining their own pockets rather than the greater good.

Independence is the only way forward.

OOooh … campaigning for the adopted country (party) 😂

Whatever floats your boat. I was merely pointing out that if such rampant anti English feeling exists within SNP voters (as per the post I was replying to), then how come many an English person either has joined, or voted for SNP/pro-indy parties (as have many other folk who have made their home in Scotland)?

Anyway, I’m out as not wanting to derail a thread.

yeah I could never bring myself to vote for the SNP either, usually go green when it’s an option. don’t like nationalism and just see the rabid snp support as tartan trumpism. wish old chazza was still around!

Whatever floats your boat.

I was “highlighting” the evidence for someone else.

I think someone in one of the SNP or Scottish independence related thread was saying something about me with my “adopted” country, so I thought the person might be somewhere in these threads. Not sure why that person was mentioning me with my “adopted” country.

Apologies, I didn’t realise that.

Apologies, I didn’t realise that.

It was my mistake for not making it clear, not you. 🙂

I couldn’t be bothered to response to that person so let it be …

Vote green ? I’d rather be roasted over hot coals. Same goes for Salmond.

Yes, I would like to see him roasted over hot coals. Slowly, looks like he could provide his own basting too.

I was merely pointing out that if such rampant anti English feeling exists within SNP voters

It isn’t, looked like a clear lie/troll.

Vote green ? I’d rather be roasted over hot coals.

Interested to know your reasoning

Don’t like their policies?
Don’t like their personalities/persona?
Don’t think there are fit to lead a government?

For me – I approve of 1 but probably feel 2 and 3 are correct. But that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t mind a good number of them buzzing around Holyrood cutting policy compromises for their votes.

It’s all interesting stuff, if there is an IndyRef2, can’t see it being a no this time round in the current climate, but what i find interesting is what happens after, effectively Labour, Lib Dems and the Tories no longer have an interest, so who will govern Scotland, and how will it progress?

A long time ago the SNP was a broad church, with one goal, nowadays it’s been governing Scotland, so will be interesting to see how the SNP would effectively fragment to work effectively.

I’ve got a conundrum with the greens. In general, I quite like them and I think they are a good influence on Holyrood.
I just can’t agree with their thoughts on energy transition. They want to almost immediately end exploration and wind down North Sea production, and I don’t see anything about how this equates with the fact that domestic infrastructure is not ready to support that. From memory, around 85% of domestic heating in the UK is gas fired and only 10% of last year’s new car registrations were electric. This has to be addressed before ceasing the supply.

If we shut down the NS, we will be importing O&G for years if not decades to come, which comes with additional issues other than its potential for increased environmental impact.

Futureboy77
Free Member
I’ve got a conundrum with the greens. In general, I quite like them and I think they are a good influence on Holyrood.
I just can’t agree with their thoughts on energy transition. They want to almost immediately end exploration and wind down North Sea production, and I don’t see anything about how this equates with the fact that domestic infrastructure is not ready to support that. From memory, around 85% of domestic heating in the UK is gas fired and only 10% of last year’s new car registrations were electric. This has to be addressed before ceasing the supply.

If we shut down the NS, we will be importing O&G for years if not decades to come, which comes with additional issues other than its potential for increased environmental impact.

Want and need are two completely different things, same as being in power and being the opposition, it’s easier to promise jam tomorrow

Want and need are two completely different things, same as being in power and being the opposition, it’s easier to promise jam tomorrow

Good point.

Scottish greens have had to grow up while at Holyrood. There have been some painful lessons along the way but they are slowly turning into a mature political party getting away from the amateur pressure group days.

To equate Scottish Independence with anti-English sentiment only shows how misunderstood the relationships are in Scotland.

Brads idiotic trolling aside SNP voters are not standing at the borders chucking haggis at “the English”. What Scotland wants is what all small countries want; an opportunity to exercise a political agency that recognises the diverse nature of the cultural landscape and associated wants of the people. Westminster doesn’t provide this. Tory sleaze merely exacerbates matters. To frame Scottish nationalism as anti-English sentiment just doesn’t wash.

Scotland has its hands tied behind its back tackling drugs use and deaths as drug policies are not devolved but set by Westminster dinosaurs who are against sensible debates, legalisation

The Misuse of Drugs Act is UK wide but England has far lower drug death rates.

Wasn’t Westminster that cut drug treatment funding as deaths rose

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18200346.snp-admit-cuts-hit-drug-services-amid-deaths-crisis-glasgow/

It isn’t,

It does. I know lots of nationalists and that anti English attitude is very real.

You may want to deny it due to the embarrassment of it’s existence, but it’s there.

Interested to know your reasoning

I think their manifesto is based in fantasy.
Got a car ?, cars are bad. Motorbike ?, any fossil fuel engine, lawnmower. All with have to stop.
So what happens to those industries ?
Also out is your gas central heating. you will be expected under law to get rid of your evil polluting central heating aned opt for something like storage heaters. YOU PAY FOR THE CHANGE.
In fact expect to be paying out for all the changes they plan to make by 2030.

10 years is a very short time really.

” The Green Party would give local Councils the power to get on with this work.”
More power to local councils. This will equal more fines, more and I hate to say it but its fking Stalinist in its approach. YOU Will DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD.

” We will look after nature and make sure there are enough places where wild creatures and plants do well. ”
I dont see trail centers surviving. But hey, you’ll be allowed to cycle on the roads, pathways but in the country 😕 maybe not.

“We will change the way that farmers work so that: • There is less pollution from farms”
Back to the plough. Be just like north Korea.

“Basic Income for everyone The Green Party would give a Basic Income to everyone. Basic Income is a plan to give everyone a certain regular amount of money which is enough to live on”
Just enough, by government standards.
” Basic Income would be instead of benefits.”
In exchange for slave labour ?. Dont agree ?, you get nothing, so no safety net

” The Green Party wants us to stay in the European Union”
Despite the democratic vote saying the majority wanted out. Sod the majority, ergo sod democratic principle, and who says the EU would agree anyway and what if they dont. Kind of leaves it all hanging like the spare prick and the w**** wedding.

” The way we vote now means that many people don’t have a say. ”
” We want to change the way votes are counted. ” 😕 that sounds a bit iffy.

“We want young people to be able to vote in elections. 16 and 17 year olds should have a say because it is their future.”
Give the vote to the easily influences immature children. Can’t see that going wrong.

And on it goes, mass immigration, especially from war torn countries Britain had a hand in destroying. Bitterness full of hate for their oppressors. Yup thats rational thinking and no mistake.

” Help local people get the training they need for the Green New Deal ”
Sorry, is that help, or force ?. on a low, decided by the powers that be, income.

Waffle waffle waffle

” Make it lawful to buy and use certain drugs. This would stop drugs being sold by violent criminals.
AKA legalize cannabis. Thats not going to help people live productive lifestyles. Drugs cause problems and not only health problems.

And more nonsense that appears to want to drive big businesses from these shore to other where taxation is lower.

Its a brave new world and you will assimilate.

It does. I know lots of nationalists and that anti English attitude is very real.

You may want to deny it due to the embarrassment of it’s existence, but it’s there.

Oh I know I exist. It’s your assessment of the problem I consider a lie.

as pie monster says – its an outer fringe view only.

What Scotland wants is what all small countries want; an opportunity to exercise a political agency that recognises the diverse nature of the cultural landscape and associated wants of the people. Westminster doesn’t provide this. Tory sleaze merely exacerbates matters. To frame Scottish nationalism as anti-English sentiment just doesn’t wash.

Exactly, and that is what I would want if I lived in Scotland.
I am not anti-English, but I don’t support the way the English vote for Tory governments and I don’t want to be ruled by a Tory government.
Turn it around, do you think the english Tory voters would be happy to be ruled by an SNP government for best part of 70 years even though it is not the government the majority of England actually want and does not fit with their ideals for society.

What Scotland wants is what all small countries want; an opportunity to exercise a political agency that recognises the diverse nature of the cultural landscape and associated wants of the people. Westminster doesn’t provide this. Tory sleaze merely exacerbates matters. To frame Scottish nationalism as anti-English sentiment just doesn’t wash.

Perfectly put.

How to come across a bit dim, in one easy sentence.

I think you started it.

Where did user dyna-ti come from?

The SNP is too broad to continue post independence – the glue that sticks it together from the hunting shooting fishing rural right to the urban left will have gone. At some point it will have to split.

I see significant realignment in scottish politics post independence. Labour and the left of the SNP would naturally form a large centre left grouping leaving room for a hard left group of some sort. Greens and liberals in the middle. The right of the SNP with the sensible edge of the scots tories become the centre right group. Maybe a hard right headbanger group. Both labour and the tories would benefit from not being controlled from down south especially the tories. We like a tory with gravitas preferably smelling of tweed not a posh boy or city slicker. given the way scotland has voted over decades this would lead to basically centre left coalitions with occasional spells of centre right

Plenty of room for single issue candidates as well as new parties arising

LOL at my typo, “I” = “they”

I just look at the **** up that’s Brexit and look at a referendum and it scares me as I just cant see it being done any better.

I think a bit more devolved power would be best short term. Just to let the world settle

Also if you asked the north of England they’d want to leave that shower of shit in Westminster behind too.

Some of the SNP policies appeal but are they fully costed?

I think you started it.

By stating the nationalists I know are xenophobes ?

Grow up dude. Jumping on your little bandwagon makes you come across as simple.

I get that my name is a red rag to some on here but at least make an effort to read the thread first.

If most I come into contact with are anti English then my impression will be of an anti English attitude, nothing you say can change that.

Most will say it’s Westminster when pushed, but they casually talk about the English problem, ,which kinda says it all about them.

And this from a place that thinks every Tory is a pheasant shooting greedy lying racist haha.

It’s Grouse shooting north of the border ;o)

What Scotland wants is what all small countries want; an opportunity to exercise a political agency that recognises the diverse nature of the cultural landscape and associated wants of the people. Westminster doesn’t provide this. Tory sleaze merely exacerbates matters. To frame Scottish nationalism as anti-English sentiment just doesn’t wash.

This. I am Indian by birth, English by upbringing, three kids born in England who consider themselves Scottish now. I live among so many people up here who also have seriously diverse upbringing and backgrounds, as well as friends who have moved a total of 125metres from where they were brought up. The piddling minority who demonstrate anti-English sentiment are overwhelmed by the positive attitudes of the masses.

My thoughts on independence are very little to do with nationalism – and everything to do with a more local, connected set of politicians. I buy the whole SNP/Green/Scottish Lib. Dem. vision of a fairer, greener, happier, healthier and wealthier country. I even listen to the subtle differences in Scottish Labour and  Scottish Conservative views and think they to are seeing an opportunity to create a better Scotland.

I don’t feel the same when I listen to most Westminster politicians.

None of our politics are perfect, nor will they satisfy everyone on every topic. Underlying this though is that a closer relationship between people, politicians and policy surely is a Good Thing.

+1 mattandabout well said and agree wholeheartedly.

Almost 100% what @matt_outandabout said, my only difference there is that I don’t think the Scottish Tories are sounding any different to Westminster – it seems to be the same stuff and they are absolutely convinced we shouldn’t be considering independence or having much thought for what is good for the country but all the thinking for the Union.

I don’t proactively follow politics, but this thread has shown I appear to have taken more in than I thought I had, likewise, it has also flagged that there is a lot more people doing a lot more thinking about this than I am as well.

Where did user dyna-ti come from?

Oh jings, has nobody explained this to you ?

Well when a mummy and a daddy really love eachother……

😂

Just because a shitshow has beem made of UK leaving the EU by the Conservative Brexit fact-denying Evangelicals (or if you want to pin down the exact crap decision point – serving Article 50 about five/ten years too early for reasons of political expedience) does not mean that Scotland leaving the UK will be so badly done.