Shim came into the market very late but better late than never etc.

Any of the stw bike industry types got a feel for what the manufacturers are fitting on their bread and butter models?

I’ve a feeling that GX/NX is hard to beat from a manufacturer view point?

Actually, isn’t there a lower groupo to NX now, making sram even more competitive?

Actually, isn’t there a lower groupo to NX now, making sram even more competitive?

SX. It is made of awful plastic and lasts about 2 minutes..

And it competes with SLX/Sunrace mixes, I know which I would rather have.

My limited experience of sram nx has been positive, but that’s the 1×11.

Dunno if NX 12 speed is anything different?

The SX is awful. Rear Derailliuer Lasted 3 rides on my Trek. Fortunately my LBS owner is a hero and managed to wangle an NX set as a warranty claim and so far so good. Apparently the SX is quite a frequent repair hes doing

Sram are furlongs ahead on OE still, but Shimano have the potential to come back on the inside.

Their 12sp stuff is wonderful.

12spd Shimano is an enormous improvement over their 11spd function wise. I’ve had 12spd SRAM since X01 Eagle came out (now got X01 AXS on my full sus too, and have run GX for a while too), but the latest Shimano stuff (new free hub design aside!) was almost worth the wait…

Got SLX 12spd on my hardtail (thankfully with DT Swiss hubs, getting the free hub wasn’t an issue), and it’s such a massive step on from 11spd Shimano (even XTR!) in function it’s shocking! Being honest, if I was speccing a brand new full sus bike now, I’m not sure I’d bother with AXS, nice as it is, I’d probably just get a full XT group and save the money or spend it elsewhere… That said, I do expect the Shimano cassettes to wear out sooner (they always do), as well as being a bit heavier.

That said, I do expect the Shimano cassettes to wear out sooner (they always do), as well as being a bit heavier.

Is a steel SRAM cassette and chainring (and chain), SLX mech, and XT shifter, what we should be looked at non-OEM?

OEM will be one or the other, obviously… because the two big Ss have all sorts of tricks to keep it that way for bike brands… but for longevity, after market, should we be doing the pick’n’mix?

These threads always amuse me. Everyone who replies should have to justify their answer. I’d like to know some actual figures rather than “my mate’s new bike had X so that’s the winner” hyperbole.

Whichever one is worse

Mister P

Member
These threads always amuse me. Everyone who replies should have to justify their answer. I’d like to know some actual figures rather than “my mate’s new bike had X so that’s the winner” hyperbole.

A valid point but this was just a curiosity to be honest. Shimano used to be my default till a few years back and been on sram (with a bit of sunrace) since. However,I don’t buy new bikes or even read reviews of them often so basically just wondered which of the big two has the upper hand on the oem stage at least.

No numbers for you but I would think it’s easier and more cost effective to be spec’ing SRAM builds at OEM.
Seeing a few examples of last year’s nx builds moving to sx this year but adding a dropper with the savings. I’ll be tearing off the sx immediately and selling it.

I bought a new bike with SX on it. Didn’t like it, have put XT Rd/shifter on it and it’s miles better.

I think I read on here that because sram can offer a fork/groupset/shock combo it’s often the cheapest way to spec a full bike.

Well I’ve just picked a bike up with full M9100 XTR, so I’ll have some valid opinions in a few weeks, moving from M9000 XTR.

I do have another with SX and 100km in its doing fine, yeah it’s a bit agricultural, but so is the bike.

I found nx 11 speed to be too flimsy & rear mech warranty took months (SRAM mechs always die on me)
The 11speed xt/sunrace I replaced it with not quite as smooth, but waaay more reliable.

Looking forward to trting 12 speed shimano,but in no rush to add another standard to my bikes – 10 speed on hardtail, 9 speed on commuter, 7 speed on kids bikes, 8 speed on pub bike, 11 speed on my enduro bike…..

For MY20 SRAM will still be winning, for MY21 I’d expect to see a bigger shift to Shimano by brands.

I bought a new bike with SX on it. Didn’t like it, have put XT Rd/shifter on it and it’s miles better.

And so it should be, it’s about 3 or 4 levels above SX.

I haven’t tried 12 speed, but GX 11 speed was pretty good on my Capra, cassette was heavy, but not enough that it’s an issue, for an average Joe like me.

I think I read on here that because sram can offer a fork/groupset/shock everything but the tyres combo it’s often the cheapest way to spec a full bike.

That, plus they were first to 11 and 12 speed at all price points. OEM bikes get specced 2-3 years in advance, so will be a model year or 2 before Shimano start appearing more.

plus I hear SRAM are better to deal with generally than Shimano

These threads always amuse me. Everyone who replies should have to justify their answer.

Fair comment and I’m guilty of assuming the question related to mid-to-high end MTBs – with my conclusion based on looking at 2020 model specs. Feels like about a 2:1 ratio, without any formal analysis, though it’s good to see more Shimano builds popping up now.

What’re your thoughts?

These threads always amuse me. Everyone who replies should have to justify their answer.

It’s not possible to give full or justified answers when industry people will have signed NDAs and know what’s coming months in advance of a public release.

^ true, but it’s certainly possible to say there’s quite a lot of misinformation about how OEM spec and SRAM/Shimano operate on this thread.

My feeling based on being a shimano fan and idly browsing new bikes both from an XC mtb persepctive and a CX persepective is currently SRAM is far more common (1 by 11 for cx though). Hopefully this will change by the time I can actually afford and justify a new bike.

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jameso

Subscriber
^ true, but it’s certainly possible to say there’s quite a lot of misinformation about how OEM spec and SRAM/Shimano operate on this thread.

Correct….. but the internet knows best

Interesting topic and highlights the virtues building your own bike and pick your bits, which allows to mix and match. Forme the XT12 mech and shifter plus GX cassette and chain is the sweetspot in terms of value and durability. But that is never going to happen on an off the shelf bike of course.

afaik Shimano have the bigger share across the whole market, but Sram have a bigger share of our little mid to high end MTB bubble

Ben from Bird bikes said on here that Sram are easier to deal with – the way they work means you know when the parts will arrive, and lead times are short. So you order your box of Pikes and two hundred GX groupsets and you know when they’re turning up, and it’s only a few weeks away.

Shimano are much vaguer, don’t release the dates when they expect products to arrive and the lead in times are much longer. I also suspect Sram price gouge a lot so you end up with more of their stuff on OEM builds.

All to the detriment of the customer – I was very willing and eager to give Sram XX1 a go when I build up my bike and it’s basically cheap plastic junk with an enormous price tag. The shifter has died as the internals keep seizing up. The mech has just died because the pivots have seized, but the main pivots and jockey wheels have been sloppy as shit for ages. They just don’t build stuff like Shimano (apart from the cassettes- Shimano’s 11 speed cassettes are junk, while Sram’s are excellent, if overpriced).

And so it should be, it’s about 3 or 4 levels above SX.

True, but it was also the first time I’ve tried a sram trigger shifter and I really didn’t like it. For a different thread.

but it’s certainly possible to say there’s quite a lot of misinformation about how OEM spec and SRAM/Shimano operate on this thread.

Are you in a position to enlighten us?

CX persepective is currently SRAM is far more common (1 by 11 for cx though)

Which I find wierd int he way it’s implemented because even 2×11 (11-30) feels like it’s really gappy on the road, so 42t front chainrings and 11-42 cassettes make no sense. For actual cross maybe it does, but then you’re running a 36 or 38t chainring.

And so it should be, it’s about 3 or 4 levels above SX.

And that’s where it get’s confusing, because aftermarket at least an SX cassette is the same price as SLX, And XT is cheaper than GX which is nominally 2 positions higher. It’s hard to say X is better than X at Z tier, because when GX came out it was meant to be the cheap option compared to X9 and X0 and X01 (which themselves were XT, XTR and “lucicrusly more expensive than XTR”. But now it ends up being priced as being more expensive than XT, which makes it look really poor value.

Are you in a position to enlighten us?

Sort of but not really going into the details / not in every way either as I don’t have full market perspective. Trying to take a general view though, different businesses will have different supply chain or logistics concerns and that can have more to do with SRAM vs Shimano spec than what the parts value is to us as riders (you wouldn’t use a 2x on an Enduro bike right now just for logistics reasons, I mean when marketing value of parts is similar). Generally only the smallest specialist brands are speccing purely based on what they would ride themselves and local market demand, that’s their advantage. Everyone else is swayed by lowering costs, increased supply chain efficiency and hitting price points etc and the structure or location of the business changes that.

thisisnotaspoon

XT is cheaper than GX which is nominally 2 positions higher. It’s hard to say X is better than X at Z tier, because when GX came out it was meant to be the cheap option compared to X9 and X0 and X01 (which themselves were XT, XTR and “lucicrusly more expensive than XTR”. But now it ends up being priced as being more expensive than XT, which makes it look really poor valu

When GX cane out there was X1 ,X01 and XX1 but X1 seems to have disappeared

It’s ended up roughly price equivalent to XT, but other than the SRAM cassette being lighter, XT feels like a much better quality product. And think SRAM’s marketing works against them a little – XT is “one below the top” whereas GX is perceived as a lower grade. Having two groups abve which are essentially the same (XX1 and X01) is a bit daft. If they renamed GX as X1 they’d probably make it more desirable

Couldn’t agree more George, Sram need to rationalise their line-up.

Why did they ever want so many high-end groupsets anyway? Trying to make them look a better proposition when they are sold OE on bikes?

I agree Shimano seem to have a much better and understandable model to their ranges – XTR = race oriented, light but possibly not as durable, XT = high end but for the normal punter, SLX same but more cost-conscious. Other than XX1 costs a lot and AXS would be nice but ridiculous cost I find myself completely unsure about the quality of SRAM stuff – I’ve always thought quality wise X01 = XT but X01 12 speed is much more expensive.

chakaping

Why did they ever want so many high-end groupsets anyway? Trying to make them look a better proposition when they are sold OE on bikes?

That might be it, to be honest – allow manufacturers who offer five different spec levels on a bike to differentiate their groupsets across models

andylc

XTR = race oriented, light but possibly not as durable,

To be fair to Shimano, XTR is usually more durable, not less – they even offer longer warranty on XTR in a lot of cases.

I think the only place SRAM win out on quality is cassette weight/durability, although 12 speed Shimano seems to have better shifting, which makes their cassettes worth considering again.

IMO…

XTR = XX1 (XC) and XO1 (Trail/Enduro) In reality there’s very little difference between them.
XT = GX
SLX = NX
Deore and lower = SX

although 12 speed Shimano seems to have better shifting, which makes their cassettes worth considering again.

Yep, and possibly a bit cheaper?

As long as they’re not much less durable than Sram GX, I’d prefer to keep stay full Shimano 12sp now.

Shimano with Sram cassettes still my preference on my 11sp bikes though.

SLX = NX
Deore and lower = SX

I think NX falls between SLX and Deore in terms of quality/weight.

More features (well, it’s 12sp), but SLX seems more refined.

SX just seems like something they should be embarrassed about, from most reports so far.

chakaping

Shimano with Sram cassettes still my preference on my 11sp bikes though.

Same here, and tbh, the 11sp kit I’ve had has been the best setup I’ve ever had, basically the same across three bikes. I have an XTR 11s mech that’s on its’ third frame and is still perfect.

That might be it, to be honest – allow manufacturers who offer five different spec levels on a bike to differentiate their groupsets across models

Probably at least a fair element of this. There’s a lot seems more spec levels overall too, now you’ll be offered 3 different frame specs (and wheels, and forks) all with the top-ish tier groupsets. So I guess this allows them to do something a bit more visual than just say “this frame has more magic in the pixie dust which makes it 50g lighter” which you’ll never notice and probably never strip it to check.

SLX = NX
Deore and lower = SX

SX just seems like something they should be embarrassed about, from most reports so far.

Whereas Deore is fantastic kit for the money, and every time there’s a round of tech trickle-down it gets more impressive.

chakaping

I think NX falls between SLX and Deore in terms of quality/weight.

NX has a super heavy non-XD cassette. Nothing to recommend it over SLX or even Deore.