Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 175 total)
  • Who will win the upcoming General Election?
  • mafiafish
    Free Member

    The tories' post recessional economic policy is an absolute joke, Labour have it pretty spot on. I'm sure if the tories had handled the recession we'd be in a much worse state right now. Labour need to nick some of these nationalised bank profits back though. Unfortunatley people like a change when something bad has happened and that works for the tories hopefully Labour and the Lib dems will show how helpful-policy-devoid they are.

    grumm
    Free Member

    A quick poll amongst my friends, middle class, middles aged, mostly quite well off have the majority of votes to Tories with a healthy few for the bnp.

    How incredibly depressing.

    backhander
    Free Member

    Kosovo and Bosnia went into the 2000's (2002/3?), Sierra leone was 2001ish and Pakistan (earthquake relief) was 2002/3.

    As stated this was

    Before Iraq/afg,

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    mafiafish
    Free Member

    Edukator I completely agree with your ideas on defence.

    backhander
    Free Member

    Wouldn't go down well at labour HQ, would it mafiafish?
    I mean, how would labour have invaded 2 countries without ground troops?

    mafiafish
    Free Member

    Kosovo and Bosnia were legitimate wars, saving people from genocide, as Rawanda should have been. And disater relief hardly counts.

    CHB
    Full Member

    Currently impossible to vote labour with a clear conscience.
    They precided over an illegal war, though to be fair I think only one or two knew the truth at the time.
    Also Gordon has squandered so much money, its embarrasing.
    During his time in government he has wasted our gold, presided over a multitude of bad contracts, increase bureacracy and now can't even be straight with the electorate and announce cuts.
    The sooner we are rid of him the better.
    Personally I would like a hung parliament, but 4 years of Tory rule to prune the "state" would be welcome also.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    So we agree when the murder, pillage and turning friends into enemies started backhander. Military actions started over 10 years ago might reasonably be placed in the right and good category. Since then Britain has acquired a reputation for murder and pillage, and abuse of its military might.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    How incredibly depressing.

    And yet, how incredibly predictable.

    mafiafish
    Free Member

    Well I guess it wouldn't but I'll wait till after the inquiry is finnished to see whether it was a government that went to war or Blair colluding with the Cheney warmonger crew.

    backhander
    Free Member

    disater relief hardly counts.

    Counts as what? legitamate use of troops? who else would have done it? and what about sierra leone?
    legitimate wars? do you not know we were peacekeeping not warfighting?
    If you want a defence force then fair enough but you cannot expect them to participate in anything (disaster relief, peacekeeping etc) other than UK defence training if you want a tangible financial saving.

    druidh
    Free Member

    My prediction…….

    A hung parliament. Tories to be the largest party.

    The SNP will offer to support Cameron short term in exchange for an independence referendum.

    Cameron will agree as he will realise that getting rid of 30 or so Labour MPs in Scotland will give him an overall majority in Westminster. He will get some concessions on North Sea Oil revenues as he needs this to get the rest of the UK out of hock.

    A small number of Labour MPs will vote for this, realising that a "socialist" Scotland is an achievable target.

    The Scots will vote for independence rather than suffer a Tory government (potentially no Tory MPs in Scotland anyway).

    By 2012, the UK will have fractured. Demands for Welsh independence will be ignored at Westminster.

    In 2014, the people of Northumberland will look across the border to a prosperous, energy-rich northern neighbour. They will initiate talks with the Scottish Government about moving the border south.

    David Cameron, worried about his prospects in the 2015 elections, will agree, sacrificing some Labour voters in order to ensure a majority based around the SE of England.

    backhander
    Free Member

    Since then Britain has acquired a reputation for murder and pillage, and abuse of its military might.

    I don't personally agree with that senitment edukator, however I can see how some might view it this way. Our forces deserve and are capable of better IMHO. We have performed justified and good ops more recent than 10 years ago though.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Onion – I tend to agree with you. A tory victory brings Scottish independence closer.

    CHB – Member

    Currently impossible to vote labour with a clear conscience.
    They precided over an illegal war, though to be fair I think only one or two knew the truth at the time.

    I am sure that most of the country and the world knew the truth. There waer Nno wmd and that the invasion was all about oil security and profits for the USA. It was clear to me after Blix reported

    Stoner
    Free Member

    Since the Labour Party is considerably to the right of almost all comparable parties in the Western democracies … any new party to emerge would be substantially more left-wing. "

    A development which I would very much welcome. Others however, might not……..careful what you wish for

    I would genuinely welcome the return of a proper left wing party. Not because they could be even remotely electable to government but because they could provide the most effective opposition. Good government is only as good as strong and effective opposition. I believe one of the reasons that government has got into the pickle it has has been that the opposition have not managed to protect the primacy of the parliament and hold the government more aggressively to account.

    Stoner
    Free Member

    A tory victory brings Scottish independence closer.

    In which case a Tory victory might also bring a resolution to the Midlothian question closer too. Dont underestimate how that grates the English as much as Tory rule might get the Scots back up.

    mafiafish
    Free Member

    I don't think Afghan is good ops, foot patrols walking straight into IEDs and ambushes seems pretty stupid to me and I've seen some talks by returing officers and left thinking WTF were they thinking.

    grumm
    Free Member

    I believe one of the reasons that government has got into the pickle it has has been that the opposition have not managed to protect the primacy of the parliament and hold the government more aggressively to account.

    Totally agree.

    backhander
    Free Member

    <sighs>
    Who said afghan was a "good" op?

    Edukator
    Free Member

    British forces are capable of very good things and are indeed still engaged in missions that are objectively beneficial on a local and international level. A much smaller conventional force would be quite adequate to sustain and even extend that effort.

    However, since Labour went on a crusade in the Middle East the vaste amjority of British troops have been engaged in actions that were predictably murderous failures with true objectives that have not got beyond pillage. Dominique de Villepin predicted exactly what would happen at the UN. While I'm at it, why does Britain still have the majority of its troops occupying Germany? Now if that's not a waste of money.

    backhander
    Free Member

    I believe one of the reasons that government has got into the pickle it has has been that the opposition have not managed to protect the primacy of the parliament and hold the government more aggressively to account.

    Not again, this is pathetic. How can you blame someone else for labours sh1t policy? "it's your fault you didn't stop us"
    FFS
    Edit; edukator, they're coming back slowly but tentatively. Mother russia keeps gobbing off. I'm very pleased that you took the time to see what our forces are doing and found that it's not all doom and gloom.

    tiggs121
    Free Member

    Midlothian question – I think it was the West Lothian Question – posed by Tam Dalyell but named by Enoch Powell.

    And I don't think a Tory victory will help resolve it anyway.

    Stoner
    Free Member

    tiggs – spot on, it was Dalyells question on West Lothian. But Im a few pints over the yard arm so I plead the sixth.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Not because they could be even remotely electable to government but because……

    You have ignored the other unwritten, and yet inescapable rule Stoner : In all parliamentary democracies the world over, no one party stays in power for ever. Eventually, the governing party will give way to the official opposition. That's what happened in 1997. Don't believe the New Labour spin that it was only because Blair had made Labour "business friendly".

    Although undoubtedly the scale of the victory in 97, was down to the fact that traditional Tories rushed in their droves to vote for the new Thatcherite party.

    Stoner
    Free Member

    bh – over the course of the last 12 years there's barely a square punch landed by the opposition despite the government introducing appallingly ill-thought out legislation. Most of the damage suffered by the government has come from the few people on their own benches who have a spine like Frank Field. If you think Im letting Labour off by sharing the blame out your sadly mistaken. I think much of their policies and legislative approach has been a casebook in how to stifle the individual with a statist approach.*

    A weak majority might encourage a better form of government. I think a hung parliament would be a tragedy. But as Gus says, the next few years of f***ing about in the stinky pit of flat-lining Labour movement and a flimsy tory alternative could make for some entertainment.

    * A lovely example of the two schools of politics on approach in the Guardian the other day.

    Ed Balls:

    "I've talked to the Royal College of Midwives and what they've said is that we haven't done enough in the past to support dads and their role in childbirth in the months and weeks beforehand, even though we know this is the most vulnerable time for a couple. If dads aren't engaged and involved that can be the time when they walk away … This will mean, for 800,000 dads this year, when a child is born they will get information and support as well as the mother."

    So, Herr Balls would rather announce another policy of "educating" the individual in the state's view of the cure to his ills compared to, in the same piece, a direct policy from the Torys which would create a market to encourage a higher quality candidate in teaching (I know there's some in here who are going to disagree with the method but that's not the essence of my point):

    " We should be equally bold here. So we will end the current system where people with third-class degrees can get taxpayers' money to enter postgraduate teacher training.

    "With our plans, if you want to become a teacher – and get funding for it – you need a 2:2 or higher. And we will also make sure we get some of the best graduates into teaching by offering to pay off their student loan. As long as you've got a first or 2:1 in maths or a rigorous science subject from a good university, you can apply."

    The former method takes away the individual's ability to act with reason, the latter relies upon it.

    Stoner
    Free Member

    Don't believe the New Labour spin that it was only because Blair had made Labour "business friendly"

    Labour had made themselves middle-class friendly. A far more powerful college to woo. 😉

    grumm
    Free Member

    Not again, this is pathetic. How can you blame someone else for labours sh1t policy? "it's your fault you didn't stop us"
    FFS

    If you'd been paying attention you might have noticed that Stoner isn't a Labour supporter.

    backhander
    Free Member

    I know that Grum but I also know that some didn't take that comment in the way stoner meant it.

    mafiafish
    Free Member

    "2:1 in maths or a rigorous science subject from a good university, you can apply." Exactly what one would expect the tories to say, you need to go to a 'prestigous' university for it to count even if you put in more effort than someone at a 'good' uni. Surely taking the people that have done best with less resources/lower quality of teaching will be better suited and expected to excel further given support?

    kimbers
    Full Member

    labour have spent the last 3 terms or whatever its been simply continuing thatcherite business ploicy
    ie financial deregulation, eroding the unions, 'liberating' pension funds, sucking up to america, privatising & selling off everything that isnt bolted down, council house sell-offs, pushing big business above all else as the trickledown effect will solve all ills,
    the only difference is labour have thrown money at the nhs, were willing to negotiate in NI, brought in the minimum wage and generally given cash to those who needed it, oaps etc

    all i can think of is a conversation i saw in a historical drama once

    Mrs Miggins
    So, who are they electing when they have these elections?

    Edmund Blackadder
    Ah, the same old fat tory landowners who get made MPs when
    they reach a certain weight; raving revolutionaries who think that just
    because they do a day's work that somehow gives them the right to get
    paid… Basically, it's a right old mess. Toffs at the top, plebs at the
    bottom, and me in the middle making a fat pile of cash out of both of them.

    backhander
    Free Member

    What a w****r Balls is. Who decides what's a "good" uni?

    Edukator
    Free Member

    But there's no need for higher quality teachers, all that's needed is higher quality kids from higher quality parents and a legal system that backs up teachers rather than victimising them.

    You can employ the best teachers on the planet and 1/ they'll realise that they are powerless in the classroom 2/ the kids aren't worth their time 3/ the parents are the enemy rather than allies in education 4/ they can earn more money with less stress doing almost anything else and take their skills elsewhere.

    Stoner
    Free Member

    mafiafish – taking your argument at its extreme then (from the SFB school of online debating. Sorry) you would happily have, say, teacher A, a 50% quality teacher educate your child because they had come up from 20% capability through, say, Middlesex Poly rather than Teacher B a 90% quality teacher who had come up from a 70% ability via Birmingham University?

    Stoner
    Free Member

    What a w****r Balls is. Who decides what's a "good" uni?

    bh – while I agree with your sentiments in the first, I think you might have misread my post in the last.

    I shall go and edit to make it clearer 🙂

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    Whoever wins, it's all Thatcher's fault.

    backhander
    Free Member

    Oh whoops! 😳
    Balls is still a w****r but so is Cameron. Politicians in "w****r" shocker!

    Stoner
    Free Member

    its OK bh. You probably went to one of those "not-good" unis 😉

    Edukator
    Free Member

    I've known a hell of a lot of teachers and the vast majority are/were competent, excellent even. My own teachers were good and some of those didn't have a degree at all. The problem isn't the teachers, it's the conditions they're expected to work in. A series of test cases in which the law has proved itself to be a total ass has handed classroom power in British schools to the disobedient thugs.

    A British teacher will get suspended for self defence in exactly the same set of circumstances that would result in instant exclusion of the pupil over the channel. Teachers are suspended and stigmatised on the whim of the parents of lying little toads.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    My favourite piece of Tory nonsense is the wish to repeal the human rights act. firstly they cannot do this in Scotland as it would take the consent of the Scottish Parliament which they won't get. Secondly so long as we are in the EU then we will still be bound by the same rights under the various European treaties. Teh only difference incorporating the declaration of human rights into UK law was that we can now use it in appeals in the UK rather than having to go to Strasbourg.

    Cameron says he is going to repeal the human rights act he is either showing how stupid he is by not realising this or he is showing what a liar he is as he knows he cannot do so without leaving the EU and he can only do so for England and Wales not Scotland.

    So here is a perfect example of the way that he is either a liar or thick or indeed probably both.

Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 175 total)

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