who is going to go to hell?

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 52 total)
  • who is going to go to hell?
  • alpin
    Member

    the priest or the un-baptised baby?

    sbob
    Member

    I’d like to think that we all are.

    wrightyson
    Member

    If like to think somebody gave the silly old God botherer a **** slap outside!

    Amazed she just stood there while the nasty old charlatan assaulted her baby..

    Premier Icon breadcrumb
    Subscriber

    What the actual ****!?

    hodgynd
    Member

    It’s a shame it didn’t run on a few seconds more ..the dad looked like he was going to deck the sad old ****..

    cubist
    Member

    Given that my language skills are not brilliant I am guessing that the priest isn’t actually saying  “The power of Christ compels you” and we’re all wrong to assume its a baptism.

    mikewsmith
    Member

    Fortunately hell is only a concept to keep the great unwashed in line, however it’s a good job that the Church there has such strong child protection policies in place….

    Chris Rea, unless he was metaphorically referring the M4. 😉

    Anybody who uses the phrase ‘going to go’

    Murray
    Member

    The tosser of a minister who told my 14 year old brother that my recently deceased 20 year brother was going to hell as he wasn’t a practicising Christian. That and the journalist who phoned up pretending to be a family friend to get 16 year old me to talk about my brother’s death.

    Luckily for both of them, it’s all a fairy story.

    The fact that they are in there getting their baby baptised implies that they are fully signed up to the nonse harbouring BS mongers way of things so they probably think that slap was all good. At least he didn’t try and bury him it in a sess pit.

    P-Jay
    Member

    The poor parents had that look of “did that really just happen?!” shock on their face.

    I’m a pretty chilled out person, known for it, but I’m getting angry at just the hypothetical thought of someone doing that to one of my kids, but my rage would know no end.

    rene59
    Member

    Catholic Priest Slaps Baby

    I recon if that priest was 20 years younger he would have been knocked out cold.

    On the brightside at least he only slapped the baby and they likely won’t remember it when older. Got away lucky compared to some of their other victims.

    globalti
    Member

    I was brought up in a strict RC family and sent to RC schools so I have a good understanding of the bigotry that the Church promotes. My sister died with MS and shortly after she died my two aunts wrote to their own sister, my Mum, and told her that it was her fault for having stopped going to church. In the seventies my Dad even gave up General Practice because increasing numbers of his patients were asking him to sanction abortions and he couldn’t agree, being strictly RC. I see the same level of indoctrination in my African customers, Muslim or Christian so I understand what they are going through.

    Premier Icon SaxonRider
    Subscriber

    So far, things implied or said directly in this thread include:

    1. that hell is a serious possibility for a lot of types of people and their various failings

    2. that the Church spends its time determining who is going to hell

    3. that priests are charlatans/BS mongers

    4. that priests are sexual deviants, and paedophiles in particular

    5. that the Church exists to wield power

    6. that the Church’s child protection policies facilitate the sort of action seen in the video

    It’s no wonder that it’s so hard to have a decent, coherent discussion about religion on here.

    First of all, what that priest did was appalling. Full stop. And yes, the parents had every right to feel very, very angry. In fact, I would accept that, if a young priest did that (i.e. a person with absolutely NO EXCUSE at all), I don’t think it would have been unreasonable for the father to deck him.

    Having said that, the priest in question is very old. He probably should not have been doing the baptism in the first place. I strongly suspect he is not fully compos mentis. So the problem here is that his bishop did not limit his priestly work in the first place. We need, however, to remember (in purely logical terms) that just because something bad happened in the context of a church does not mean it happened because of the church. The setting in this case is incidental. I’m sure we all know an old codger or two who might still be inclined to give a cuff on the ear to a child. I mean, has anyone ever visited an old people’s home? Those places are full of such folk, but in that setting we put such behaviour down to age and failing minds.

    [That is NOT to say that the child abuse cases we have seen emerge in the last decade or so can be excused this way! That truly was an endemic, perverse, and sickening problem for which those responsible and those who facilitated deserve to be brought to justice and punished to the fullest extent of the law.]

    But as for the points I have outlined above:

    1. You lot seem to harbour a far greater sense of judgement and damnation than anyone I have ever known in the Church. Indeed, the Church says very little at all about the idea of hell – other than in late medieval art and poetry. That isn’t to say that it doesn’t have an idea of hell; only that it is part of a far more complex understanding of the afterlife than the gross caricatures presented here even begin to comprehend.

    2. The Church spends precious little time saying anything about anyone bound for hell. In fact, I would suggest, no time at all. Maybe some weird hell-and-damnation non-mainstream groups do, but no mainstream Christian Churches.

    3. It’s one thing to say ‘I don’t believe in what the Church believes’; it’s another to say that those who minister in the Church are ‘BS mongers’ and ‘charlatans’. There are a hell of a lot of priests out there who are engaged in selfless work for the sake of no one but people in need. They may be the first one at a death bed, or a sick bed, or among the world’s poorest. Yes – just like in every walk of life – some are scum. But countless 1000s you will never read about or hear about are just getting on with the business of serving people.

    4. Yes, the Church has had a problem, the reasons for which are complex, yet for which there can be NO EXCUSES. But as we have seen, it certainly wasn’t alone in having that problem, and it wasn’t even alone in dealing so badly with it. It needs to repent of everything that has happened, and work bloody hard to make sure such things never happen again. That, however, does not make all priests paedophiles.

    5. Kind of like elsewhere in life, some – even many – people seek power. The Church per se, however, is not about power, but about service. Look at a school. How many teachers are passionate about teaching, and how many about pay and pensions, and resources, and survival, and climbing up the greasy pole, and power, etc., etc.? The Church is pretty much the same. But schools themselves are still about education, and there are still countless teachers doing their best for the sake of education.

    6. I am sure that the Church has a long way to go to plug any holes in the system, but it has improved immensely in the wake of all those horrors we have heard about in the news over the last number of years.

    Premier Icon bearnecessities
    Subscriber

    You lot seem to harbour a far greater sense of judgement and damnation than anyone I have ever known in the Church.

    That’s top drawer 🙂

    mikewsmith
    Member

    1. that hell is a serious possibility for a lot of types of people and their various failings

    2. that the Church spends its time determining who is going to hell

    3. that priests are charlatans/BS mongers

    4. that priests are sexual deviants, and paedophiles in particular

    5. that the Church exists to wield power

    6. that the Church’s child protection policies facilitate the sort of action seen in the video

    To address some of those..

    3) Yep most of them are, faith and the rules it brings especially in the RC church is mostly BS

    4) Quite a lot were

    5) It’s fairly obvious that it does exist and uses it’s power to retain power and political influence

    6) Good one to try and imply but as has been shown all over the world the only protection policy the church has is for itself, they are still fighting the right to ignore confessions admitting sexual abuse

    They have zero moral authority these days.

    Topcashback, they have deal links that can cost you more overall, even after you get the cashback! 😡

    brakes
    Member

    I pushed hard against getting my kids baptised despite my wife’s family pushing for it and the only reasons to do it being to appease them and to allow my kids to get in to a catholic school in the future.

    I was later vindicated when a priest that had baptised some family members was revealed to have been a nonce, but the church waited until he’d died before they publicised it. Until then it had been hidden and he was still a practising priest.

    I am sure that the Church has a long way to go to plug any holes in the system

    hopefully the holes will open up the gates to hell and it will swallow it whole.

    twowheels
    Member

    @SaxonRider – that’s a decent contribution and I try to stand up for people’s faith but just want to make a light hearted comment re:

    “Church […] had a problem […] for which there can be NO EXCUSES. But as we have seen […] it wasn’t even alone in dealing so badly”

    Google definition of excuse: seek to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offence); try to justify.

    What is your second sentence if not an excuse? 😀

    Edit: yes I’ve taken the verb definition but you get the point 🙂

    Premier Icon jekkyl
    Subscriber

    Do people actually believe in God or a God. Like the creator of all things. Honestly I cannot see how this is at all possible. I believe all priests to be charlatans.

    I am sure that the Church has a long way to go to plug any holes in the system

    I disagree. Some priests have been working very hard to plug as many holes as possible.

    It’s no wonder that it’s so hard to have a decent, coherent discussion about religion on here.

    Its hard to discuss / argue any point when one side fails to provide any evidence to back up the thing they are arguing for.

    They may be the first one at a death bed, or a sick bed, or among the world’s poorest.

    And on the other hand, there are poor people sleeping in the streets outside the Vatican, where there is more wealth and art dripping off the walls than pretty much anywhere else on the planet.

    alpin
    Member

    Here’s some more WTF….

    mikewsmith
    Member

    And on the other hand, there are poor people sleeping in the streets outside the Vatican, where there is more wealth and art dripping off the walls than pretty much anywhere else on the planet.

    Also preaching tolerance and a live and let live approach, unless you happen to not fit their narrow definition of what is right. I’m sure you can see why people have such strong opinions SaxonRider and why so many people feel that organised religion is not a force for good.

    Premier Icon SaxonRider
    Subscriber

    EDIT: I just deleted a meme about me giving up, because it could come across as if what you are saying, mikewsmith, is something I am dismissing. I definitely don’t want you to think that.

    There are many things in what you have said that I would want to respond to with qualifications and explanations, but I still accept the concerns you raise.

    ransos
    Member

    just because something bad happened in the context of a church does not mean it happened because of the church.

    It was in this case though, as evidenced by your rather lame whataboutery.

    Premier Icon SaxonRider
    Subscriber

    It was in this case though, as evidenced by your rather lame whataboutery.

    How’s that, then?

    I said that the child abuse occurred because of grave failures in the Church. That a single, very old priest smacked a baby didn’t do so because of the Church.

    I’m not trying to obfuscate; I’m trying to get us all to separate issues and deal with each one clearly. I might make mistakes in the process, but I don’t think it’s helpful to dismiss what I have said as ‘rather lame whataboutery’.

    mikewsmith
    Member

    I said that the child abuse occurred because of grave failures in the Church. That a single, very old priest smacked a baby didn’t do so because of the Church.

    However he was enabled to be there and be in a position of trust because of the Church, an organisation that has a very poor record on child protection and dealing with staff members who are abusers.

    ransos
    Member

    I said that the child abuse occurred because of grave failures in the Church. That a single, very old priest smacked a baby didn’t do so because of the Church.

    If you’re providing commentary about infirm old men in care homes then yes, you are reducing your argument to whataboutery.

    This assault was perpetrated by a church employee, at a church service he was officiating, in a church. If you want to argue that this didn’t occur because of the church then be my guest, but it makes you look pretty daft IMO.

    I said that the child abuse occurred because of grave failures in the Church. That a single, very old priest smacked a baby didn’t do so because of the Church.

    and the child was there because the church continues to promote religion despite there being absolutely no evidence of it being based on any truth whatsoever.

    Marin
    Member

    The dad should have slapped the priest back.

    You lot seem to harbour a far greater sense of judgement and damnation than anyone I have ever known in the Church. Indeed, the Church says very little at all about the idea of hell

    You obviously didn’t grow up in Ireland listening to pulpit beating sermons from catholic priests, or spending an hour or so a day in primary school learning the catechism we had to. And that was when I was a youngster. I could tell you about the “missions,” when my mother was a youngster, when the church would send the real headbangers out to spend a few weeks in rural areas, largely populated by uneducated farmers and labourers – to hammer the fear of god into them for a while before merrily heading onto the next parish to repeat. I could indeed tell you more about these but you’d still be here making the same point in a few week’s time.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    @SaxonRider – I don’t agree with everything you’ve written there, but I’d just like to +1 this:

    Yes – just like in every walk of life – some are scum. But countless 1000s you will never read about or hear about are just getting on with the business of serving people.

    The church doesn’t have a great track record with punishing its priests etc for inappropriate behaviour, it’s true.  But the ones who have been caught out are the ones we’ll hear about; “priest doesn’t interfere with child” isn’t headline news.

    As you say, there are scumbags in all walks of life.  I saw two drivers today who ran a red light – which sticks in my mind, those two or the hundred others who didn’t?  And we all know what a lot of drivers think about cyclists.  It’s wrong to conclude that any of these people are representative of a demographic as a whole.

    rene59
    Member

    “priest doesn’t interfere with child” isn’t headline news

    No but if the other priests and powers that be didn’t cover up for the ones that did and allowed them to be headline news, then the problem wouldn’t have gotten so big. Nothing like running red lights.

    poah
    Member

    probably not the worst thing he has done to a child

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 52 total)

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