While I wait for my Canyon Dude….

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  • While I wait for my Canyon Dude….
  • happybiker
    Member

    Ordered one last weekend (with Blutos and Shimano 2×10) and just found out it won’t be shipped until next week at the earliest.

    Anyway, thinking of making some changes especially the Jumbo Jim Liteskin 4.0 tyres it comes fitted with. Are they totally unsuitable for winter use? I’m thinking of getting some 4.0 Minion’s instead and going tubless. Or should I just try the JJ and see how I get on?

    How do Minion FBF/FBR play with the DT rims when it comes to setting them up tubeless?

    Premier Icon slowboydickie
    Subscriber

    Depending on your local terrain. Around where I live (Surrey Hills) JJ in any form are useless and give no grip on wet roots, chalky mud, sloppy loamy mud. Our group has about 9 or 10 fattys and all have switched. Lite Swin will be worse because at lower pressures the carcass doesn’t hold up.

    Minions are draaaaaaggggy according to my mate who has them. He ran them initially on the DT wheelset tubeless, you just have to ensure the tape is done right.

    I run Buds front and rear and swear by them. They roll well (for a 4.8 tyres) and grip is formidable, even in the worst conditions. They also weight 1650 each but I don’t really notice weight because they roll well. I had clearance issues with a Bud on a DT Swiss rim / bluto until I switched to a 100mm carbon rim, now it fits fine.

    Another mate swears by On One 4.0 tyres. Heavy (same as Bud) but grippy. I ran Nate’s but wanted 4.8. They are called 3.8 but they come up as wide as a 4.0. Great grip, roll well and about 1350g.

    If you are sticking at 4.0 I would go for a Nate. Given Bud might not fit your set up Minion might be the best option.

    Painey
    Member

    JJ tyres aren’t much use in slippery conditions. Not enough tread and it’s spaced too far apart. However, in the dry they’re great so I wouldn’t call them completely useless. I just wouldn’t ride mine in mud!

    Premier Icon grenosteve
    Subscriber

    I’ve just updated my Dune to Minion FBR and FBF 4.8s. It had Juggernaut 4.0s on it and they where rubbish in mud but ace in the dry and pretty fast rolling.

    The Minions behave much more like a normal MTB tyre – No self steer or following cambers, and they grip well in mud and go where you want them to go. I don’t know if that’s to do with the lego brick size knobs or the larger tyre size, but they are a big improvement. I run 8 psi front and rear.

    I’ve not tried tubeless on the Minions, I gave up on the old tyres and just injected the tubes with Stan’s sealant – tubeless is hard without really building up the rims with foam etc.. to keep the bead next to the rim wall.

    Keep in mind minions are draggy and heavy, doesn’t bother me as I don’t expect a fat bike to be fast rolling.

    Enjoy your new bike!

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    I love my JJs in the summer. I think the 4.8s are the best of the bunch, but clearance on a Bluto was too tight for my liking, so I switched to 4.4s on my Dude. This has the added advantage that I can run the chainstays in the shorter position.

    For the winter though, the JJs really can be a bit deadly so I have to, reluctantly, switch to something with a bit more tread. I say reluctantly as it makes the bike feel a lot more sluggish and less fun. Currently I’m using Bud/Lou which grip like a very grippy thing in all sorts of conditions, but are slow. Maybe Bud/Bud is better in that respect, but I’ve not tried it.

    Again clearance on the Bluto with 4.8 Buds is too tight for my liking (although it doesn’t actually rub) so I switch to rigid forks. Actually I’ve just built up my old Surly ICT frame to take the Bud/Lou and save having to mess about with switching tyres, forks and chainstays position on the Dude, but that’s a total extravagance.

    Finally and perversely, I find that I tend to use my fatbike (with JJs) more in the summer. Unless there is snow on the ground, for winter riding, I tend to go back to my old Five with decent mud tyres.

    luff
    Member

    Running 4.4 JJ’s on my Cube throughout the summer they have been awesome and even in the Surrey Hills last weekend I managed my 3rd best time on BKB (2.33) so they’re still going ok, they are far from useless for 6 months of the year.

    happybiker
    Member

    Well the good news is will arrive tomorrow… Hopefully?

    Thanks for the replies. Are Minions really slower than Nate’s? I always assumed Nate’s were pretty chunky too. I’ve got got a 2.5dhf on my Stumpy and that’s pretty slow. I’ll never use the fat bike anywhere gnarly tyres are called for anyway, so maybe Minion’s are overkill..
    So between the 2, which is better to compliment the JJ liteskins for winter use, looking at no more than 4.0″.

    Goldigger
    Member

    Welcome to the dude club..
    Has your dude got a stealth dropper fitted?
    Interested to see how canyon have fitted the dropper, looks like they have run the cable next to the rear brake cable on the downtube and into the port on the seat tube. If so it’s a bit poor.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    Interested to see how canyon have fitted the dropper, looks like they have run the cable next to the rear brake cable on the downtube and into the port on the seat tube. If so it’s a bit poor.

    That’s how I did mine (fitted myself) and I’m happy enough with it to be honest. If you run 1x you can use the “spare” port on the right side and run the dropper cable down the inside of the downtube, over the BB and up the seat tube. I guess that would be neater, but I wasn’t bothered enough to faff around with removing the cranks/BB.

    happybiker
    Member

    No it’s 2×10 and has no dropper fitted. My plan is to fit a Command post with 2x dropper remote next to the grip and swap the Bluto remote with an RCT3 damper on my SIDs just to free up some bar space. Thought about 1x but I think this is one place a double with extra gear range makes sense.

    Swapping the cheap Shimano brakes for some XTs too.

    Those with E13 cranks, how are the bearings doing? Heard bad things about them, mine has the standard TRS cranks and I’m wondering what alternative BBs are available when mine wears out.

    Goldigger
    Member

    I like the cranks, they have a removable spider, 2x comes off and you can replace with a direct Mount single ring. I’ve done it to mine.
    As for the BB just make sure to adjust the pre-load and check once in a while.
    Keep the bearings well greased, it doesn’t take much to wash all the grease out, not sealed very well.
    Mines been fine so far.

    happybiker
    Member

    That’s good to know, I might have to try get one of the special tools to swap it over one day.

    happybiker
    Member

    Well I finally got it, had to fetch it from the UPS depot because Canyon didn’t put my full address on the box despite me emailing them with the details twice…

    Went for a quick ride, about a mile out this happens….

    The crank bolt has cracked all the way around the head! I have a spare I think, not sure if I’ll be able to get the old one out easily.

    Anyway, first impressions as I’ve never even sat on a fat bike:

    1) it’s pretty light thanks to the frame and wheelset, I haven’t weighed it but will do once I’ve swapped some parts over and fitted a dropper.

    2) the tyres are tiny! Height wise I mean, I’ve been riding 29ers for years and a 29+ recently, despite the 4″ of fatness I can’t help feel 27.5 fat will have the same roll over as 29×2.4…

    3) it doesn’t seem slow with the JJ’s, but I’m looking forward to getting it out on the trails this weekend to get a better idea.

    4) their sizing is a bit out, at 6′ the large is bang on, if anything it could be longer, it has the same stand over as the Med. They put me between the 2 size wise.

    I’ve ordered a pair of Minions and a Fat Hugger which I’ll fit when winter makes it’s 1st appearance.

    Goldigger
    Member

    I can’t believe you’ve broken it already!
    Hope you’ve emailed canyon with pics, can’t see why they wouldn’t send you another Bolt at the very least assuming you get the old one out.

    happybiker
    Member

    Yes just emailed them. Looking forward to seeing what their customer service is like. I stole a bolt from my x9 cranks, should do for now. Do the TRS cranks have a self extracter bolt?

    Goldigger
    Member

    If you mean how do you get the cranks off, there’s a e13 crank removal tool.
    http://service.bythehive.com/Guide/How+to+remove+e%2Athirteen+cranks/44
    I’ve got something similar to the park tool crank removal tool

    happybiker
    Member

    Of course, forgot those tools existed, I still have one somewhere…

    Goldigger
    Member

    If you use the park tool type, make sure to screw the outter part into the crank nice and tight. But don’t over tighten, if you don’t engage all the thread inside the crank you risk stripping the threads.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    Wow, that sucks. Hope Canyon sort you out sharpish. One of the reasons I went for the bargain basement Dude and changed things myself rather than just buying the higher model in the first place was the bad reputation of the E13 stuff. The base model comes with RaceFace Aeffect. Sorry that’s not much help 🙂

    happybiker
    Member

    Heard back from them, I can either return the bike for a full refund or warranty the crank which I think means I’ll get another bolt? I asked if a pair of Race Face cranks was an option!

    Changed some bits, replaced non clutch XT with a med cage clutch model, replaced cheap Shimano brakes with XT’s and swapped the remote damper for an RCT3 model from my Sids. Will have a go at tubeless when the minions arrive.

    It’s bang on 14kg with flat pedals…

    Goldigger
    Member

    I would have been cheeky and asked them to swap the BB and crank for the GX crank they are fitting to what appears to be the 2018 models.
    (SRAM GXP PRESSFIT BB)

    I would have been cheeky and asked them to swap the BB and crank for the GX crank they are fitting to what appears to be the 2018 models.
    (SRAM GXP PRESSFIT BB)

    I wouldn’t, the fatbike GXP cranks are rubbish. I’ve given up with mine, swapped the BB for a hope one and just accept that the design will be inherently creaky.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    If it’s any help I’m running a Wheels Manufacturing (screw together type) BB with the Aeffect cranks and no creaks so far. But to be fair, it’s still early days.

    happybiker
    Member

    They said if I buy the bolt they’ll refund me for it. Couldn’t find an E13 one so ordered a SRAM M15 bolt. The one that broke is steel, SRAM uses aluminium so I hope it does the trick, it’s worked so far with the one I borrowed from another crank .

    As far as I known the cranks are ok as long as you set them up right. If and when the BB dies I’ll get a Wheels Manufacturing, the one on my full size is lasting well.

    Goldigger
    Member

    Like I said mines been fine, guessing that the Bolt was torqued up to much causing it to snap under any load.

    You need this assuming your crank is a 1°

    1 deg cranks can be identified by the laser etching on the non-drive side end of the spindle

    ipark
    Member

    Hello, just taken my trs crankset off a dude with the above tool. Worked fine. Replacing the PF bearings. They are shot.
    JJs are supper light and fast rolling, especially if run tubeless. Yep thin sidewalks and not so good in the mud but generally fat bikes are not that good in mud. I ran my JJs on various snow conditions last year and never really had an issue. Yep more tread would at time be beneficial but then you end up with heavy wheelset on a lightweight carbon bike!
    Enjoy your dude.
    Would be interested to know if anyone has tried 27.5 wheels with a 3.5 tyre on there’s????

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    2) the tyres are tiny! Height wise I mean, I’ve been riding 29ers for years and a 29+ recently, despite the 4″ of fatness I can’t help feel 27.5 fat will have the same roll over as 29×2.4…

    It doesn’t really work out like that, because the big soft tyre needs to roll “over” less- it’ll deform around objects that the 29er won’t.

    And yeah, 4.0 JJs are shit in the mud. The 4.8 rises to the dizzying heights of merely bad in mud, I love ’em the rest of hte time and at least they’re usually fun in teh wet- a Bluto or Minion front and wide JJ rear is pretty fun

    The Minions aren’t particularly slow- that is to say, they’re faster than you’d expect, from such a massive, grippy tyre. Love mine. Fatbike tyres always tend to ramp up the drag at some point- the amount of rolling resistance increases faster, the faster you’re going. But at lower speeds, ie grinding up a hill, they usually feel faster than you’d expect.

    happybiker
    Member

    Yes Goldigger, that’s the one, ordered the SRAM though because it’s Stealth and I’ve never had one break!

    The JJ’s are more knobbly than I expected, not tried them in mud yet but yesterday I rode up steep grassy climb that I would not imagine is rideable and I got up no problem. I’ll see how the Minions are next week, ordered the 120tpi which may be ok, R2 bike has them for €70.

    I know what you mean Northwind, it’s just a visual thing, when I look down at the front tyre it seems low.

    ipark, is the BB a regular PF41? What bearings have you put in there? As far as 27.5 fat goes, not sure but I know 29+ fits…there’s a big thread here about B fat as Mikesee now calls it.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/27-5×4-whos-excited-whos-not-979984.html

    I know what you mean Northwind, it’s just a visual thing, when I look down at the front tyre it seems low.

    Depends on the tyre obviously, but a 3.8 Nate is 750mm diameter and a normal 29er is about 730-740 (a 29×3″ knard is 750). It’s just wider which maybe makes it not look as big as you expect?

    It certainly bounces up rooty trails better than a 29er, you can pump it up/over rooty or rocky trails where a 29er would need finesse, unweighting and pedaling.

    As for tyres in general, my experience is they’re always poor on some surfaces, I ride a lot on ‘natural’ singletrack that doesn’t get much traffic so is still dusty and covered in beech nuts etc and criss crossed with roots. The fat tyres seem to struggle because they float over all that, rolling around on the beech nuts, sliding across roots etc, where normal tyres displace those and dig into the dirt. On the flip side, with such low pressures the sliding is incredibly predictable, they don’t snatch. So it’s possible to ride at or well past the limit of the tyres grip (think Richard Hammond “I AM A DRIVING GOD!!!!!!!!!”) drifting both wheels round loose corners.

    Goldigger
    Member

    Ipark

    Would be interested to know if anyone has tried 27.5 wheels with a 3.5 tyre on there’s????

    Haven’t tried 3.5, but I have 3.0 on 27+rims. DT Swiss XM551 on Hope Fatsno.
    Diameter wise the ranger 3.0 are roughly 725mm, the 4.0 Jumbo Jim’s measured 735mm.
    As I’m running higher pressures in the 27+ there’s probably little difference in ride height when ridden.

    ipark
    Member

    Yes. BB is PF41. I put in Hope PF41 30SS. The regular Park Tool Head Cup Steering Race Removal Tool works well to remove the old ones. Apparently the speciallist remover does not fit the width of the shell.

    Cheers Golddigger for the info about 27.5 wheels. Dude looks good with the 27.5 x 3. Just need to get the right rims/hubs to make what I think maybe ideal bike for much of my riding.

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