As is the STW way I will recommend the bike I own…

Have a look at the Banshee Prime (135mm rear, 140-160mm fork) and the Banshee Paradox (115mm rear 120-140mm fork).

I have the Prime and I’m very pleased with it.

“The people that advocate a 160 Enduro bike for SH, what do they use for Lakes, Finale, Alps etc?”

I’ve ridden the Surrey Hills on hardtails with 140/150mm forks and 140-150mm full-sus bikes with 160mm forks and used the same for trips to uplift venues etc. I’m not the bravest rider so although I like getting airborne I don’t hit the bigger stuff.

I’ve noticed one of my most skilled riding mates swaps between his short travel 29er (Intense something) and his Nomad (170/160 I believe) for the Surrey Hills, going with the Nomad if he’s planning on riding the bigger jumps and drops. And the Nomad is the bike he takes to the Alps etc.

The Surrey Hills is the kind of place where everything from an XC hardtail to a freeride bike makes sense, depending on what and how you like riding there. I can see if you’re a “wheels on the ground” Lakes/Peak rider that may be very confusing.

This does depend on the rider to a degree. I want to get fun and technical interest from traversing and climbing and I’m prepared to put the work in, but others are all about the climbs or gravity.

The problem with todays enduro bikes, particularly if you’re a trail hacker – is that despite the bigger descents from more elevation, generally the bigger the climbs are too. You spend even more time not enjoying the ride. Even traversing on these pedal able DH rigs is dull.

The classic lakeland passes day ride on an enduro bike? No thanks! Borrowdale bash? No doubt an enduro rig would be a bit faster smashing down, but the rest of it, including the lovely tech climbing would pants.

I’m happiest on the right shape trail bike with a 140 to 150 fork, but I’ve never felt the need for more than about 130mm on the rear.

I’m content on that size bike up to the BPW lesser blacks, which is about my skill limit anyway.

Personally, buy the bike that you think is going to make you laugh the most. I ride a Spesh Enduro with 160mm coils, and fo’shure it’s a big beast of a thing, but it’s heaps of fun, it’s solid as a rock, will get me out of most stupid situations I put myself in. Sure it’s a bit wearisome after 3-4 hours in the Peak/Calderdale where I ride , but that’s mostly down to my legs.

I don’t need to think about what to do to it on the week abroad trips to the Alps/Pyrenees, and it will go all day at the Bike Park without missing a beat, but at the same time, last weekend I did 80km along the TPT just to see how far it was there and back, mostly locked out, and with a bit of a faster tyre on the back, it’s cool.

But mostly, it just makes me smile.

For majority trail riding, bit of XC, occasional uplift, I think a 29″ with around 130-140 rear and 140-160 front is the sweet spot. I’d look at a Hightower based on standard “recommend what you own protocol”.

You see the lakes is one of the places that I feel that my Mega is really at home. I mean clearly you can get way with a shorter travel bike but given the nature of slog up and bomb down fairly chunky descents I have no problem dragging the bigger bike up the hill.

Holy moly – thanks for all the responses! Loads of really great info here, going to take me a while to digest it all.

In case anyone is interested, there’ll be a Nukeproof Reactor ST Large available here shortly:

https://shop.oneplanetadventure.com/bikes/mountain-bikes/nukeproof-reactor-290c-st-factory–2021–depressed-aubergine__7788

I had reserved it, but based on these responses I’ve decided to do a whole lot more research before committing, so it’s now available.

I ride SH on a 150mm travel (170 fork) 29er that I also use for enduros and everything else. I’ve been on 150mm+ travel bikes for SH for over 10 years. I wouldn’t recommend this as necessarily everybody’s normal, but it lets me keep one bike as my everything bike.

The OP’s favourite SH trails aren’t the steep ones. BKB, Yog Pots, John the Baptist.

Having capability to extend beyond these trails and not get out of depth isn’t a function of suspension travel numbers. With 5k bikes, there can be a lot of hard selling on perceived value like carbon, lightweight and bling transmission but I think you need to concentrate on the factors that will really bring on your riding and nothing brings on your riding as much as confidence:

1. Having a really good balanced position in the centre of the bike (don’t confuse this with just picking an extra long reach). I mean a sensible balanced chainstay length for a bike fitting a 6 footer combined with an ok modern reach watching out for the distortion in reach numbers you get from weirdly low stack numbers; Avoid too high a stack – you can easily add spacers or handlebar rise but you can’t shave mm off a head tube.
2. A seat tube geometry that permits a dropper post with 175mm drop.
3. Brakes (big rotors, no mucking about, not a pissy XC combo)
4. Just normal tyre sizes – 2.35/2.4/2.5 better in my book than anything bigger
5. Suspension components with a sufficient level (i.e. not too much) of adjustment that you’re confident you can dial them in – no point in having adjustability that just means you get lost.

Pretty much any use you’re likely to put the bike to you can adapt with tyre choice if you get the basics right. Although tubeless has been the rage for years, fitting a tube gives a different, damped feel. Experiment with sturdier carcass tyres – they’ll be slower on the flatter trails but hold up better in the steeper stuff.

That reactor will be more than fine for most of your riding – obviously if you start taking it down some welsh mountains (vs the BPW trails) you’ll start to feel the limitations of the fox 34 and shorter rear travel, but it sounds like a decent bike for your sort of riding.

I’m guilty of being overbiked a lot of the time (although a session at my ‘local’ which is hella rooty on my hardtail made me realise how good FS bikes are!) but my FS bike is aimed at the type of riding I do 5/6 times a year for a few days at a time – long days on natural wild trails, often 3/4/5 days back to back on properly rocky stuff, often at or close to the limit of my comfort zone. Yeah it’s complete overkill for Bedgebury but it’s perfect for the lakes (which I’m off to in a couple of weeks for 5 days of riding!).

I had reserved it, but based on these responses I’ve decided to do a whole lot more research before committing, so it’s now available.

Might be too late now, but I’d not be unreserving anything until I was sure it wasn’t the bike I wanted.
A mate of mine has the fancy pants carbon 29 reactor with the full axs set up and it’s a great bike. He rides it pretty much everywhere (the only place he wanted something bigger was when he was off to Madeira), but he is extremely good at riding bikes though so that’s why I ride a 160/150mm bike 😀

I live down south and used to run hardtails and short travel full sus. Then I went for a 160/170mm bike (Vitus Sommet) after hiring something similar (150mm Trek) and never looked back.

It’s no slower than my older bikes, no less fun on boring stuff, but so much more capable when I’m in the mood. Even done 50 mile xc rides and towed the kiddy trailer with it.

I actually sold my hardtail as I never used it and use the Sommet as my only MTB.

People make too much of being “overbiked” and what category each bike is in.

Having capability to extend beyond these trails and not get out of depth isn’t a function of suspension travel numbers.

This is a good point, we used to ride long-travel bikes in certain places because they were the ones with the right geometry.

Now trail bikes have largely caught up, hence the general agreement here that a 130-150mm rear bike should be spot-on.

Good point about geometry balance as well, are you of unusual proportions OP?

> are you of unusual proportions OP?

Height 182cm. Inseam (crotch to floor) 84.5cm. Torso (crotch to top of shoulder): 70cm. Not sure if that’s unusual?

Trail + Surrey = yeti or Santa Cruz

I think an sb130 would cover your needs nicely

“ Height 182cm. Inseam (crotch to floor) 84.5cm. Torso (crotch to top of shoulder): 70cm. Not sure if that’s unusual?”

Pretty average for your height, so a large in most modern geometry (about 480mm reach and 620mm stack) bikes will fit in reach and the seat tube will have room for a big dropper.

Might be too late now, but I’d not be unreserving anything until I was sure it wasn’t the bike I wanted.

I’ve just had a go on my mate’s Reactor 290 Alloy Pro (130mm rear/140mm front) and that confirmed it for me that I’d want that much travel as a minimum. Also, the ST comes with thinner rims (25mm) which seem suited to 2.3″ tyres. I’d want to run a 2.5″ on the front as a minimum for the wet/muddy conditions round here. I was slipping about all over the place this morning even with my Maxxis Minion DHF 2.5″.

Trail + Surrey = yeti or Santa Cruz

I think an sb130 would cover your needs nicely

Over biked is an interesting one. I had a Whyte T-130 then bought a Soul HT with 130mm travel.

Once I bought that the Whyte was never ridden – even ended up preferring the Soul @ BPW as the bikes felt so close in terms of ability the FS didn’t get a look in.

I have now bought a Rocket which is too much for my local trails (but there are plenty of places to take it for a play) but I’m hoping will be great fun to take away.

I’ve just had a go on my mate’s Reactor 290 Alloy Pro (130mm rear/140mm front) and that confirmed it for me that I’d want that much travel as a minimum.

Fair dos.

Sunset have this in stock in XL, £4.6k seems like good value to me (especially atm) for carbon frame, DVO Onyx fork and Fox Factory X2 and deore 12sp drivetrain. The wheels are the same as I’ve got and they’re pretty light and they’ve withstood a lot of abuse.

https://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=10864&category_id=402

I currently have a 2013 Whyte M-109 (100m front and rear travel) which is a great XC bike, but gets jittery down rocky descents and over large roots. Several times I’ve bottomed out the suspension going over jumps. It also feels heavy (it’s 15.2kg).

Basically I think I need something which isn’t going to be “too much bike” for all the XC riding to trails but I can push it hard down rocky/rooty runs and over jumps without fear that I’m going to bottom it out or shake my arms/legs off.

Bottoming out isn’t inherently a bad thing once in a while, why not just add a volume spacer?

Depends on your preferences, I’m happier rattling down descents than slogging up climbs, so the tradeoff for me is I’d rather have efficient climbing suspension that’s just enough to help keep speed better than a hardtail on the descents rather than a completely plow through everything DH bike.

I keep looking at the YT Jeffsy, a lot of reviews of it as an Enduro bike score it down for having overly progressive suspension, but the flip side of that for me might be that it pedals and behaves more like a 5″ travel frame, but without ever bottoming out.

It’s one thing having a bike designed to get you to the top of a long gradual logging/fire road in the Alps, Rockies or BC where you pedal up for hours talking rubbish with your mates before a 30 minute descent, that sort of pedaling is easy to deal with. The more typical for the UK 1in3 out of the saddle for 50 vertical meters fire roads, arrive at the top gasping for air then have catch up with your mates followed by a 2 minute descent and repeat 20 times are a different kettle of fish.

I’ve no idea what or where the Surrey Hills are, beyond what it says on the tin, but my assumption is that they’re in that relatively flat serene area to the [very far] south east of Cannock.

To give you an idea, it’s pretty much the only place in the south-east that Welsh riders make an annual weekend trip to ride. And it beats Cannock into a cocked hat. 😉

Pretty average for your height, so a large in most modern geometry (about 480mm reach and 620mm stack) bikes will fit in reach and the seat tube will have room for a big dropper.

To add to this, I’d suggest looking for chainstays (sometimes called rear centre on the geometry chart) of 440mm or longer – to get that aforementioned front-to-rear balance.

Yes there are exceptions, before anyone interjects, but I feel that’s a good rule of thumb for a “large” bike.

Two bikes that would be near the top of my list: Vitus Escarpe 29 & Sonder Evol 29 (when in stock, obvs), but my budget would be lower than yours.

it’s pretty much the only place in the south-east that Welsh riders make an annual weekend trip to ride.

I make an annual pilgrimage from the north of England. It’s always one of the best rides of the year and there’s always great new trails.

Lucky to have local pals.

I ride SH on a 150mm travel (170 fork) 29er that I also use for enduros and everything else. I’ve been on 150mm+ travel bikes for SH for over 10 years. I wouldn’t recommend this as necessarily everybody’s normal, but it lets me keep one bike as my everything bike.

This is pretty much my set up on a 27.5 bike, V3 Bronson, not the fastest trail muncher on the more pedally tracks in the SH, but as I only have one mtb it’s fine for an XC blast, and perfect for the bike parks and can handle the odd alpine holiday.  Good trail bikes are so dialled these days you need to be riding a lot of rowdy trails before you need more.

Pretty much any use you’re likely to put the bike to you can adapt with tyre choice if you get the basics right. Although tubeless has been the rage for years, fitting a tube gives a different, damped feel. Experiment with sturdier carcass tyres – they’ll be slower on the flatter trails but hold up better in the steeper stuff.

I’ve just managed to win a second set of wheels, I’ll be setting these up with inserts and heavier tyres for uplift / park days and keeping my nice, lighter XM1501s set up with Exo tyres with Rimpacts for trail days.

If you are serious about looking at a Santa Cruz option (5010/Bronson/Hightower depending on your choice of wheel size) have a chat with Pedal and Spoke as they seem to have a steady drip of stock coming in judging by their insta, and are great to deal with (and one of the main reasons why SC bikes are synonymous with the SH).

To give you an idea, it’s pretty much the only place in the south-east that Welsh riders make an annual weekend trip to ride.

Amazing how many top level gravity riders grew up riding in the pancake flat SH!

OP are you keeping your Whyte? I run 130mm Fox 34s on mine and it’s so much better than it was. It was always a quick bike but now it feels much more confident. It’s a fair bit lighter than stock now too – which obviously helps.

I have a Jeffsy too. The Jeffsy is lovely – rides nicely, soaks up all the lumps and bumps and feels very confident etc but, god-damn it feels so slow on anything flat or up hill compared to my Whyte.

Just been through something similar, my list before thinking about stock was Pace RC295 (sentimental reasons, always wanted a Pace back in the day), Reactor, Ibis Ripley, Spur, Tallboy.

In the end, stock was a massive consideration but I got what I’d always really wanted through this process, which was a Tallboy.  My LBS actually had quite a lot of stock 2 weeks ago when I ordered mine, just waiting for it to be built now.

I don’t have any actual recommendations as I haven’t got it yet, but lets be honest, no £5k bike nowadays is bad, stock is probably your biggest consideration unless you don’t want it till next year.

I make an annual pilgrimage from the north of England. It’s always one of the best rides of the year and there’s always great new trails.

Where’s the centre of it @chapaking, is it Dorking? Train down from civilisation is 4 hrs but I’d do that as a one off, sounds a great place to ride.

OP are you keeping your Whyte? I run 130mm Fox 34s on mine and it’s so much better than it was.

Nice idea but there’s too many other things I want in a new bike (single front chainring, lighter frame + wheels, space for more than a 2.2″ rear tyre). Will hopefully get a few hundred quid for it secondhand – they seem to hold their value pretty well.

It’s the non-carbon version of this: https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/mountain-bikes/whyte-m-109-s-review/. Differences are Deore/SLX groupset and Easton Heist 29s alloy rims.

Where’s the centre of it

Peaslake

You would say that.

😉

I don’t usually start there, but it’s as good a place as any.

The best advice on this thread so far has been to buy a bike that makes you smile.

I’ve said it before – my old Orange ST4 had a certain je ne said quoi about it that just made me smile, pedal harder and enjoy it more. It wasn’t the longest travel, it wasn’t the lightest, or latest geometry. It was just a hoot. Plus you never saw anyone else on one and I always wanted an Orange.

Yep, something you like the look off and does the job you want it too, i wouldn’t get too hung up on being overbiked, i’m not even sure how that term is even used these days, personally i’m a bit like you a couple of years ago, had 130 full susser, was more than enough, but wanted to push more BPW, DH and enduro, so went 170/160 enduro, yes it’s not exactly the best bike to use going around a blue or red trail like in FoD or the likes, but i’m not racing, i’ve got time and i tend to focus on more fun stuff in a ride than miles, i do enjoy XC, but it’s kind of the stuff i do between trails or runs, or just to clear the mind, which in both situations isn’t pushing it for strava PBs!

Save yourself some dosh and get the Remedy on the classifieds (not mine). Superb bike
One a these https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/bikes/mountain-bikes/trail-mountain-bikes/remedy/remedy-7/p/24481/

Thanks for all the advice. I test rode, and loved, the Bird Aether 9C but I couldn’t even get on a waiting list for one. I also test rode a Transition Spur, which although a beautiful bike, didn’t feel quite enough bike for me. I felt similarly about the Reactor ST.

In the end, with extremely limited choices, I went a bit over budget and bought a Reactor 290c Factory from my LBS (Ace Bikes – who were fantastic btw). I’m well happy with it – it’s an absolute beast!

I like that Nukeproof, lovely clean lines.

Sweet ride. 👍

Excellent choice. A mate of mine has the pro version and it’s a great bike.

Bike looks superb. Love the colour, congrats.

Looks fab.

Bit concerned about that brown patch on the lawn though.

In my mind, the jump from 140-150mm to 160-170mm is where bikes start to become unwieldy on gentler terrain.

150mm trail bikes are pretty decent for general riding but you could also take them to the Alps or Scotland for a week and hammer some uplifted trails. When you go down to 120mm you lose some of that versatility. When you go up to 160mm+ you’re dragging dead weight around unless you only ever ride really choppy stuff.

150mm. Goldilocks. Hightower.

I’d be inclined to agree with this.

A mate of mine has several bikes… HT, Downcountry, and a Ripmo v2.
This is a GREAT selection as he can pick the downcountry or ripmo bike, ride the same trails, jsut in a different way.

However, if you’re looking to spend 5k which nowadays is just one decent bike (which is quite frankly, stoopid right!! but I was in teh same boat!), then i reckon a 140-150mm trail bike would be great.

I sold my hardtail (kept my rigid singlespeed though) and got a stumpjumper. It’s a 146mm rear, 160mm front, and is GREAT. Can do big XC loops on it..jump it..bike park it.

I’d look in that territory..

DrP