Which new disc brakes? Shimano XT vs Hope Tech 3

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  • Which new disc brakes? Shimano XT vs Hope Tech 3
  • cruzcampo
    Member

    These seem to get the most reviews everywhere

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-xt-m785-disc-brake-lever-and-pm-caliper/

    down to cheap price with ok performance, or should it be on par with my Formula?

    One thing I adore about them is the modulation, and lots of lever travel, so great for controlling descent speed. My previous Hayes and Avids were very on/off, and not much in between

    Get the Hopes, they’re in a different class to the Shimanos in this respect. I have Tech 3 E4 on one bike, Race Evo M4 on the other – used XT on a hire bike on holiday recently and there was an awful lot more skidding going on!

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Ive had both.

    My Shimanos were fine, although the seals blew on five sets.

    I bought a set if Hope tech3 E4. They are in a totally different league. The modulation is ridiculous, and the power just gets stronger the more you squeeze the lever.

    Plus, when they do blow a seal, i can buy one for £1, instead of a whole new lever.

    The tech3 have adjustment for reach and bite point, so you can dial in exactly what you want the lever to feel like.

    Shimano has a free stroke screw… which does nothing.

    Hope Tech3 feel like a brake thats been put together by an engineer, Shimanos feel like a cheap toy in comparison.

    stoney
    Member

    Hope, any day of the week. Ive had nothing else since the first C2s back in 1997. Never had an issue (appart from getting hot) which was resolved when they did the phenolic pistons. You can still get EVERY spare part for them as well. Shimanos? you`ll have to but the complete item (lever/caliper)

    Now just got the Tech 3 E4`s, cant wait to try them……

    Oh, BTW, Shimanos squeel like hell all the time….! I know this cos the guys with me have them!

    stoney
    Member

    Oh BTW the XT 785s that were on the bike i just bought… were taken off….. straight away!.

    stoney
    Member

    cruzcampo! I think your question has been answered allready! 😉

    cruzcampo
    Member

    Wow excellent response! Cheers all. I do adore Hope stuff.

    and Ridiculous modulation sounds excellent! :- D

    Are the tech3 e4 the only contenders in hope current line up, or any others worth looking at? Can I keep my 180 formula rotors?

    cruzcampo
    Member

    Thinking of replacing my Formula Oro Bianco, out of warranty now and displaying the same fault as 2 years back with a sticky piston which was repaired by CRC via Silverfish.

    ..

    One thing I adore about them is the modulation, and lots of lever travel, so great for controlling descent speed. My previous Hayes and Avids were very on/off, and not much in between!

    Any thoughts on

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-xt-m785-disc-brake/rp-prod67208

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-xtr-m987-disc-brake/rp-prod108803

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/hope-tech-3-e4-disc-brake-rotor/rp-prod119357

    Not owned shimano discs since XT 4 pot on my big hit in 2003…

    Recently rode a 2015 big brand road bike with shimano hydro discs with tiny 140mm rotors and wow, juddery, grabby unpleasant riding experience. My MTB runs avid elixirs with 180mm front and 160mm rear and has great modulation in comparison…

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Depends what youre riding. Ive got the tech3 e4 on my bike and tech3 x2 on my missus’.

    The e4 are more powerful, so you do need a lighter touch than the x2. If you go v2 you can.run the vented rotor, if youre inclined to do 20 minute descents 😉

    Braided vs. Plastic hose… better feel in braided, less chance of cutting or nicking, and softer on the frame. Its about £11 more per end, so your choice entirely, either way you wont be disappointed.

    Oh… you can get them in purple too.

    cruzcampo
    Member

    Reckon the X2 would do me, mainly technical XC riding, some long descents, nothing too gnarly…

    Tech 3 X2

    They really are a thing of beauty 😯

    Rickon i’ve not found the V2 on the Hope site yet.

    stoney
    Member

    Youll be fine with the X2s, as rickon said, get the braided hose. 😛

    creamegg
    Member

    V2 are now superseded by the v4s which is what ive got and theyre awesome. Ive also got a set of xt’s on other bike and i prefer the hopes by far

    cruzcampo
    Member

    Thanks Stoney, how are the braded cables for frame rub? Only £9 more so quite tempted.

    @Creamegg cheers.

    Just shopping around and going to buy some this morning

    Merlins seem cheap

    http://www.merlincycles.com/hope-tech-3-x2-disc-brake-64668.html

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    Will never go back to Hope. Currently on SLX, Deores and Formula the Ones. Tried a recent set of Hopes on a mates bike recently and they were lacking in power and feel… Hope brakes were good once IME and that was too long ago. Their hubs, hoops and headsets I really like though!

    stoney
    Member

    There is another hose option. I have just got the Jagwire Hyflow hose, from here;

    http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Sprockets-Bike-Components?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

    you buy the hose 3m kit, the banjo,connector kit to suit your brakes. They come in an array of nice colours as well.

    As for cable rub… the hose does last longer, and is better to the frame as it has a clear outer which is a little softer than standard hose, still use a little helitape though…..

    soobalias
    Member

    i got to finger a top end shimano brake a few weeks back.

    o-m-gee.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Tried a recent set of Hopes on a mates bike recently and they were lacking in power and feel

    They are totally different to Shimano, which have no power until you reach the bite point, and then loads – but no more the more you pull the lever.

    The Tech3 3s have a little power, then the more you pull the lever they have more, then they bite fully, and if you keep pulling they get more and more powerful.

    Coming from Shimano brakes you won’t be pulling hard enough, and will be expecting them to bite hard way sooner.

    On the steep descents around Inners they’re amazing, you can easily feather them so you don’t lock up, whereas with the Shimanos I was locking up a lot.

    I’ve had the new.. Deore, SLX, XT and XTR – which all felt the same, just the XTR looked nicer than the rest.

    In terms of overall power, the Tech3 E4s are immensely powerful, I grabbed a handful in a panic moment, and totalled myself into a ditch.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Oh – and I bought a set from Merlin too 🙂 Them, Rush cycles or cycle-sport are the cheapest.

    Frankers
    Member

    Weren’t people raving about how fantastic the XT 785 brakes were a few months ago….

    How fickle

    Premier Icon cp
    Subscriber

    XT brakes are very very good, and outright power is huge for very little lever effort.

    Their downside is as above, they are a bit sledgehammer like if you’re not expecting it, but if you’re subtle with them, they’re very good.

    But they are sooo cheap for the oomph they give.

    Premier Icon nickdavies
    Subscriber

    I was going to say.. I looked at this thread expecting a load of hope are shite, shimano Deore are amazing posts!
    Seems the industry has completely changed in the past few weeks…

    Scamper
    Member

    Another option is of course, Zee. Even more power than SLX/XT, hut with much better modulation.

    1) You can talk about modulation and lever feel differences which are subjective, but the power is very comparable (Hope x2 vs M785 XT).

    2) One can buy three sets of XT for the price of posh hopes. Better still, compare Hopes to Deore to make it even more ridiculous.

    3) The availability of spares is completely moot given the price difference.

    I like Hope as a company but their brakes just don’t make sense. Shimano gets my vote.

    stoney
    Member

    The availability of spares is completely moot given the price difference.

    Sorry but IMO thats rubbish. Why have to bin a perfectly good lever or caliper just cos you cant get a bushing, o ring or piston seal?

    Hopes win? This is only my opinion and not actual fact…. 😉

    Are Shimanos cheaper cos you have to keep buying them to make them last as long as Hope????. Buy cheap, buy twice?…

    Naaaa!

    Frankers
    Member

    Ive had Shimano, Hayes, Hope, Avid and TBH cant really say any of them stood out as being amazing..

    Hayes HFX9 = Rubbing all the time

    Hope Mono M4 = Decent though did boil once and lost power on a steep dh road section

    Avid = No real problems but pig to change pads and bleed

    Shimano = stop my bike, easy to change pads and bleed

    nwill1
    Member

    I’ve got XT on the main bike and Deore on the play bike. I love them, I tried a couple of x2’s because I love Hope stuff and love the whole concept/philosophy of Hope ie UK design/manufacture/available spares for years to come, able to rebuild them etc but IMO they lacked power.

    Also and this is a very individual thing, having small/medium sized hands I find that the Hope levers just didn’t feel comfortable ergonomic wise…the levers on the latest line up of Shimano just feel right.

    Premier Icon gamo
    Subscriber

    After years of using Hope’s i’m now on xt’s and in my opinion they are way better.

    Premier Icon mboy
    Subscriber

    I was going to say.. I looked at this thread expecting a load of hope are shite, shimano Deore are amazing posts!
    Seems the industry has completely changed in the past few weeks…

    It’s all personal preference. They’re all good (now, many older Hopes were a bit hit and miss), it just all comes down to what your preference is.

    I bought a set of Formula T1’s about 8 months ago to go on my bike, having used nothing but Shimano for about a decade, as I wanted to see what all the fuss was about with them. To be honest, I’m a bit underwhelmed, I actually miss the ferocious bite of Shimano’s! The funny thing is that to my mind Deore’s feel better than SLX which feel better than XT… Why? XT really don’t have any modulation, Deore’s are still ferociously sharp if required but you do seem to get a bit more modulation out of them.

    Biggest negative for me about Hope brakes is the CNCed lever blades, which aren’t at all ergonomic to squeeze IMO. Shimano win hands down on ergonomics.

    cruzcampo
    Member

    Thanks for other thoughts, Shimano definitely sound powerful no faff stoppers, but not much in the way of lock up control on descents.

    rickon – Member
    Tried a recent set of Hopes on a mates bike recently and they were lacking in power and feel
    They are totally different to Shimano, which have no power until you reach the bite point, and then loads – but no more the more you pull the lever.

    The Tech3 3s have a little power, then the more you pull the lever they have more, then they bite fully, and if you keep pulling they get more and more powerful.

    Coming from Shimano brakes you won’t be pulling hard enough, and will be expecting them to bite hard way sooner.

    On the steep descents around Inners they’re amazing, you can easily feather them so you don’t lock up, whereas with the Shimanos I was locking up a lot.

    I’ve had the new.. Deore, SLX, XT and XTR – which all felt the same, just the XTR looked nicer than the rest.

    In terms of overall power, the Tech3 E4s are immensely powerful, I grabbed a handful in a panic moment, and totalled myself into a ditch.

    Panic grab and ditch 😆 😯 The feathering part sounds akin to what i’m used to with Formulas.

    Brakes so far…

    Avid Juicy 5 + 7 = turkey warble, braked ok, but that warble arghghgh 😆
    Hayes HFX 9 = on or off, no progressiveness
    Formula Oro K18 + then bianco = pad change/bleed faff, not many places would service/repair, but all made up by the modulation on a sublime level, so much control and utmost power when fully on. First brand I was proper wowed by.

    So I think Tech 3 E4 or X2, are the two i’m settled on. Merlins seem best i’ve found so far on price. Still deciding if weight of E4 is worth the extra few quid, and if they may be too powerful!

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Out of curiosity what pad change faff did you have with the Oros? I’ve run sets for years, found them easy to live with despite their ridiculous age…

    Like everyone else said, XT are great brakes but not what you’re looking for. I ended up replacing my Oros with The Ones, they’re the same only more so. But expensive!

    As another option, I think I’ve got an Oro caliper in the garage which should have 2 good seals in it…

    creamegg
    Member

    Biggest negative for me about Hope brakes is the CNCed lever blades, which aren’t at all ergonomic to squeeze IMO. Shimano win hands down on ergonomics.

    As you say its down to personal preferences as i find the hope lever loads more comfortable than my shimanos.

    warpcow
    Member

    I went from Oros to Hope X2s last year. Wanted similar modulation with more power and that’s what I got. Tried a friend’s new Deore too which offered great power but no modulation, very on-off feeling. Feels like I can get the same power from the Hopes but with a lot more control over it.

    glasgowdan
    Member

    Theres a lot of rubbish on this thread.

    I fail to understand people who say shimano are either on or off. I have NO problems feathering mine. I’ve never had shimano brakes fail on me, and with £60 deores on my downhill bike taking care of world cup descents im not sure what more you want from a brake?

    Premier Icon billyboy
    Subscriber

    I’m running two sets of the new SLX and they give very good service with no problem whatsoever in a year and a half.
    I have run two sets of last generation SLX with no problems.
    I’ve run one set of last generation XTs with screaming I could not factor out
    I’ve run two sets of M4s. One had constant screaming in the wet which I could find no way out of, the other set had to have the pistons replaced every two years because they just stuck all the time.
    I’ve run two sets of Avid. They worked ok for a while but were always traumatic when trying to execute the simple task of changing pads, and ultimately the screaming got the better of me. The second set came on a bike and I gave them away…to be fair they didn’t offend me, but I didn’t give them a chance!
    I’d go new Shimano…no, you cannot mend them as readily as Hope…but they don’t need mending too often!

    warpcow
    Member

    I fail to understand people who say shimano are either on or off. I have NO problems feathering mine. I’ve never had shimano brakes fail on me, and with £60 deores on my downhill bike taking care of world cup descents im not sure what more you want from a brake?

    I’ve never had Formula or Hope brakes fail and have also ridden world cup descents so I’m not sure what point you’re making other than you’re happy with Shimano. Fine, but the OP wanted comparisons of 2 particular brakes based on experience of a third. Having tried all three (ok, Deore, not XT) I’d say the control of Hope X2s is closer to Formula Oros, power is better, and generally feel more solidly built than old Formulas. The Shimano brakes I’ve tried have all been good, but they feel different in use, so if that’s a factor in choosing which brake then I think it’s quite a big one where Shimano brakes are concerned.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    XT brakes are very very good, and outright power is huge for very little lever effort.

    Their downside is as above, they are a bit sledgehammer like if you’re not expecting it, but if you’re subtle with them, they’re very good.

    But they are sooo cheap for the oomph they give.

    That’s a very good summary.

    If you’re comfortable that they’re disposable, and happy to spend £30 on a lever when they blow a seal (my experience is that they do within 12 months) – or warranty them, and be without a brake for a month – then you have a brake that’ll last a lifetime.

    cruzcampo
    Member

    Northwind – Member
    Out of curiosity what pad change faff did you have with the Oros? I’ve run sets for years, found them easy to live with despite their ridiculous age…

    Like everyone else said, XT are great brakes but not what you’re looking for. I ended up replacing my Oros with The Ones, they’re the same only more so. But expensive!

    As another option, I think I’ve got an Oro caliper in the garage which should have 2 good seals in it..

    Pad change always needs a bleed, this doesn’t always work so LBS have a go, sticky piston diagnosis and silverfish then repair. I’m sending it off for replacement this week so should be good as new. But… have the Hope itch so when they come back i’ll just sell them. lol!

    cruzcampo
    Member

    Went ahead with the Tech 3 X2, thanks for all the advice in thread 😀 Had to get new rotors as my formula are 180mm, and hope 183mm. Went for the Saw floating rotor, Some say these rub at the rivets, but as i’m on hope II evo hubs and buying hope adapters think they will be ok without any filing?

    Are these the correct adapters, I have Rockshox Pike 2014 RC up front, and Santa Cruz Blur LT2.3 (IS on back?)

    and finally will my X9 shifters with windows work with the matchmaker, or are these only good for none display x9?

    I’ve got a set of 8 year old Hope Mono M4s with braided hoses and floating rotors, never had a problem in all that time, piss easy to bleed and I know I can still get spares if I need them.

    The only downside is they have no modulation compared to new ones and I will be upgrading to newer ones towards the end of the year but I’ll just rebuild the old ones and stick them on the mrs bike I’m currently building up.

    Had Hayes in the past and they were rubbish, very agricultural compared to the Hopes.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    cruzcampo – Member

    Pad change always needs a bleed

    Sounds like something wrong with the bellows in the lever, maybe? Unless they’re being bled inbetween pad change which always causes trouble.

    But yeah, if they’ve got more wrong with them than the seals you’d be daft to try and keep them going, considering the age.

    cruzcampo
    Member

    Sounds like something wrong with the bellows in the lever, maybe? Unless they’re being bled inbetween pad change which always causes trouble.

    But yeah, if they’ve got more wrong with them than the seals you’d be daft to try and keep them going, considering the age.

    When trying to do the pad change on the rears this time round, and pushing the old pads back into the caliper, the rubber around the FCS dial where the leaver pushes was making a crackling sound 😯 with a very little bit of fluid appearing, is that the bellow?

    cruzcampo
    Member

    @ultimateweevil great to be going strong after 8 years +1

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    If memory serves the bellows’/diaphragm is in the back of the lever, on Oros. Not 100% sure actually! Leaking past the FCS probably suggests there’s a wee hole in the rubber that’s let water or brake fluid in from the outside, rather than the lever leaking into it.

    I know and I still love them and shows Hope build stuff to last 😀

    Price wise I’m sure they’re not much more expensive now so if you get 5+ years out of them then they’re a bargain

Viewing 45 posts - 1 through 45 (of 54 total)

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