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  • The Coronavirus Discussion Thread.
  • grahamt1980
    Full Member

    I havent seen a good explanation yet as to why they didnt just use a more dangerous virus instead. The vaccine as the lethal agent seems a rather pointless additional step.

    Providing we can have a vaccine with very high effectiveness 99.999% i would be inclined to support the release of a more dangerous virus. But only as long as everyone who needs and wants the vaccine can get it. (Being sarcastic before anyone gets stroppy)
    Clearly the gene pool needs some bleach

    gobuchul
    Free Member

    Just follow the money or opportunity for power/influence and you are pretty much there.

    So was it for money or power?

    Roger- Can I ask you some genuine questions?

    Did Trump win 2020?
    Who killed JFK?
    Did Hitler escape the bunker and went to South America?
    Did NASA land on the Moon?

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    I had adverse effects from my vaccination.

    I actually had more symptoms which were a side effect of my first vaccine than I did from the two occasions that I have had covid. I used the covid yellow card to report the adverse reaction.

    I was actually very pleased to have a strong immune response to my first vaccine, I knew that older people were less likely to have a strong response to the vaccine due to a weaker immune system compared to younger people. I had very little or no reaction to subsequent boosters.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I am asking you what your expertise is that you can be so sure the scientific consensus is wrong.  You have already shown you do not really understand this stuff so are either accidentally or deliberately misrepresenting what the data shows as in the 1:800 claim

    Now someone like TiRed – he has real clear expertise.  I listen to him. I do not have the expertise to challenge him

    Dr John Campbell appears to have expertise so I had a look into his stuff – but when I looked into it my knowledge which is of a similar level to his allowed me to understand the basic flaws in his argument

    someone with no scientific or healthcare knowledge like say Bridgen can be happily ignored

    Now do you have any expertise in the area?  Understanding medical research is tricky stuff.  I have been trained to honours degree level in understanding medical research and still find it tricky to be sure of the validity.  I rely on those with a greater degree of expertise in some cases

    Now if you have expertise in epidemiology and / or understanding medical research and / or statistics it would add greater validity to your argument

    Not all views are equal

    IE a well trained scientist and a lay person have differing viewpoints. The well trained scientists view is in accordance with the scientific consensus.  the lay persons view is not.  The two viewpoints are not equally valid

    so once more – what is your expertise?

    roger melrose
    Free Member

    1

    theotherjonv
    Full Member
    Now it is bingo.

    Table 4

    The vast majority of people KSI in road accidents are wearing seatbelts. Far more than aren’t.

    Is that because

    a/ seatbelts are not effective in preventing KSI

    or

    b/ Virtually everyone wears a seatbelt nowadays.

    Should we get rid of seatbelts, the numbers seem to suggest you’re far more likely to be KSI in a crash when you’re wearing one?

    [edit – when are you going to answer the question about where all these excess people are being hospitalised?]

    Utterly irrelevant when the data from the Pfizer vaccine trials showed just a (less than) 1% Actual Risk Reduction for Covid against mild to moderate symptoms.

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    You tell me, but the official data as presented by Andrew Bridgen MP in parliament is showing at least 1 serious adverse even per 800 doses.

    Erm, are we travelling in circles here?

    I was expecting Kazakhstan next.

    What gives?

    dissonance
    Full Member

    Are you saying that this is not a valid report by default – that the data is somehow not valid?

    Its not valid because it doesnt contain all the relevant information.
    A quick google gives the Australia takeup.
    Now I havent bothered checking the timeframes so it might not completely match the results you have but as a rough guide its informative.
    Note pretty much everyone has 1 jab and most people have 2.
    Then 3 and 4 does drop but we have the “is eligible” caveat. Looking at their recommendations its roughly the same as in the UK where only higher risk people have the booster jabs (especially the 4th). Therefore I would be expecting them to be more likely to end up in hospital since they are preselected as having worse health.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    You tell me, but the official data as presented by Andrew Bridgen MP in parliament is showing at least 1 serious adverse even per 800 doses.

    That’s what he said. Do you disagree with this? If so, where is your evidence that this is not the case.

    That’s not how this works. And, as has been explained to you quite patiently, 1 SAE does not equal 1 Hospitalisation. So, why don’t you either withdraw that claim, or pop back when you can provide evidence for it?

    thepurist
    Full Member

    1% Actual Risk Reduction

    I think you mean Absolute Risk Reduction, but why are you focusing on this rather than more commonly used RRR – do you know the difference between the two, and what they actually mean?

    roger melrose
    Free Member

    Now someone like TiRed – he has real clear expertise. I listen to him. I do not have the expertise to challenge him

    From seeing his posts, he is an expert in a very narrow field only, and associated with the much discredited (appallingly inaccurate) computer modelling of this pandemic that influenced so much of our disastrous response. I see it all the time in work. Scientists so focussed on their little area of expertise that they loose complete perspective of the bigger picture. A complete unawareness of how science influences the real world.

    so once more – what is your expertise?

    It doesn’t matter what my expertise is. You need to evaluate the data in the links I posted.

    If Andrew Bridgen said that the world was round would you question what his expertise was, or would you look at the actual real world data? Actually if Andrew Bridgen said that the world was round – I’d expect you would claim it was flat, on some daft point of principle.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    vested interests in the Pharmaceutical Industry and the Government, that’s why. Basically, it has become politicised. Just follow the money or opportunity for power/influence and you are pretty much there.

    So the pandemic has given governments across the world the opportunity to make lots of money and increase their power by introducing a vaccine programme?

    How much do you think the UK government made out of introducing the UK’s vaccine programme, and how much greater power do you think it gave the then Prime Minister Boris Johnson?

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    Ooh, he’s heading off on another tangent!

    It’s TiRed’s fault… Something to do with his PC… then its back to Bridgen!

    Seriously, get a room you too.😂

    roger melrose
    Free Member

    I think you mean Absolute Risk Reduction, but why are you focusing on this rather than more commonly used RRR – do you know the difference between the two, and what they actually mean?

    Yes I know the difference and that was a typo, hard to keep up when it’s 10 against 1 on this thread. But the government and media latched onto the Relative Risk Reduction because it sounded far better, when for balance then should always quote both figures.

    Perhaps that’s because a 1% Absolute Risk Reduction is pretty much **** all. Hardly the great efficacious vaccine we were promised was it?

    grahamt1980
    Full Member

    Provide real evidence and we will listen to you.
    Real evidence means peer reviewed or official stats and data that support your viewpoints.
    To date you have provided none of those, i would suggest you go away, do your research properly and come back later.
    Otherwise you are not going to get anything other than pulled apart on here. There are enough people in this site involved in medicine, trials, vaccines and research that you are not going to get away with vague statements and bs

    johnx2
    Free Member

    No comment on what the German Health minister said

    I’ll comment.

    The viral video was edited from a segment of the heute journal (Today’s Journal) show by the German television network, ZDF (Zweites Deutsches Fernsehen), that was posted on 13 March 2023…. start at 3:54 for the full segment on vaccine injuries, which lasts for over 11 minutes. The viral video lasts only 45 seconds <snip>

    the viral video was edited to frame Karl Lauterbach’s words out of context. In this part, he pointed out that severe vaccine injuries are very rare.

    To avoid any false impressions, I would point out here that, according to the latest research data, severe vaccine injuries are very rare. The incidence is less than one in 10,000 vaccinations. So it’s not like injury is common.

    But because our understanding of adverse events is now getting clearer and clearer, it should be possible to more quickly identify those who are affected, so we can help them more quickly.”

    from https://www.techarp.com/facts/karl-lauterbach-vaccines-dangerous/

    I actually came on to say it should be okay to challenge what appears to be a pro-lockdown orthodoxy on here, this is complex, nothing’s absolute, arguments from authority are not persuasive, suppression tactics etc have huge downsides etc etc.

    But no, what we have is someone peddling antivax conspiracies not very effectively. Hey ho. I’ll go away again

    tjagain
    Full Member

    It doesn’t matter what my expertise is.

    It really does given you  are arguing against expertise

    From seeing his posts, he is an expert in a very narrow field only, and associated with the much discredited (appallingly inaccurate) computer modelling of this pandemic that influenced so much of our disastrous response.

    Well yes – I wouldn’t give him more credence on advice on lawns than my brother in law who is a gardener.  But when it comes to his area of expertise I would

    I do love the way yo make value judgements about his skills as well from a position of ignorance

    so you actually have no relevant expertise then?  right.  You can be safely ignored

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Andrew Bridgen said that the world was round

    In this analogy, Andrew Bridgen is saying the world is flat. As this is a significant departure from scientific consensus, he (and you) are expected to fully evidence such a claim.

    roger melrose
    Free Member

    So the pandemic has given governments across the world the opportunity to make lots of money and increase their power by introducing a vaccine programme?

    How much do you think the UK government made out of introducing the UK’s vaccine programme, and how much greater power do you think it gave the then Prime Minister Boris Johnson?

    You need to look past national governments and look at the global bodies that influence them. Our parliament is little more than a puppet show at the moment. On both sides of the house.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Now someone like TiRed – he has real clear expertise. I listen to him. I do not have the expertise to challenge him

    From seeing his posts, he is an expert in a very narrow field only

    How would you know? You only registered on stw 2 days ago and as far as I am aware TiRed hasn’t posted on this thread for quite a while.

    Have you gone through reading all 988 pages on this thread?

    gobuchul
    Free Member

    You need to look past national governments and look at the global bodies that influence them.

    Which ones are these?

    binners
    Full Member

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    How would you know? You only registered on stw 2 days ago

    It’s almost as if this isn’t the first time this poster has interacted with the forum.

    You need to look past national governments and look at the global bodies that influence them.

    Tally ho! We’re onto the WEF/global elites (what’s that shorthand for?). Truly this has been a fabulous whistlestop conspiracy tour, and I, for one, will be sad to see it come to an abrupt close.

    Seriously do the research

    <marks bingo card>

    roger melrose
    Free Member

    Real evidence means peer reviewed or official stats and data that support your viewpoints.

    You don’t realise how corrupted the peer review process is do you. You don’t realise how much scientific studies cost to run and that often what is not funded to run can be telling too. You are unaware who funds the journals, the MHRA, the FDA etc are you? You are not aware of how corrupted the WHO have become and who buys their influence through funding. Seriously do the research and then come back on here and give me your opinion.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Our parliament is little more than a puppet show at the moment.

    Ah, now we are getting somewhere…… tell me, who is pulling the puppet show strings?

    Shape-changing reptiles, or the global Jewish conspiracy?

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    You don’t realise how corrupted the peer review process is do you.

    There it is. You finally threw science out the window.

    Well done you.

    roger melrose
    Free Member

    Tally ho! We’re onto the WEF/global elites (what’s that shorthand for?). Truly this has been whistlestop conspiracy tour, and I, for one, will be sad to see it come to an abrupt close.

    You mean this WEF?

    We penetrate the cabinets

    Seriously, you can’t get any more from the horses mouth.

    gobuchul
    Free Member

    Seriously do the research and then come back on here and give me your opinion.

    JHJ?

    Look – just explain to me in simple terms why a part of the UN would want to make me take a vaccine which is going to harm me?

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Shape-changing reptiles, or the global Jewish conspiracy?

    Shh…don’t mention the Jews, we are only allowed to refer to them obliquely. I’m OK with the reptiles being out there though, the people need to know.

    grahamt1980
    Full Member

    I am well aware who funds the mhra and fda, it is central government supplemented by the fees charged for the review of medicine registrations. The mhra gets a fee regardless of if the medicine is approved or not. Plus i don’t need to do the research… i already did.
    Please provide your evidence on the regulators funding models….. i will wait

    dissonance
    Full Member

    Seriously do the research and then come back on here and give me your opinion.

    Have you thought that possibly we have and have come to a different conclusion from you.
    Personally I think there is a lot to be done to improve research eg open access and that funding bodies should require all studies to be register and published to make it harder to keep trying until the right results are found.
    However I am not sure how this helps your conspiracy waffle.

    Now do you have the NSW stats adjusted for vaccine takeup and at risk groups or not?

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    I’m loving where his links take me to though.

    The last one was a YT video entitled “down the rabbit hole pt2″… With 13 comments.

    Real persuasive stuff.

    fossy
    Full Member

    Back on subject.

    We all had Covid in October/November. Wife picked it up and we all avoided it. Roll on a couple of weeks and my son caught it (rare night out clubbing) and was coughing badly and wiped out for a week. Then me and my daughter had it from son. OK first week, but struggled with breathing second week – off the bike 6 weeks – which was the pi$$er).

    Roll on February and son caught it again from site visits (hadn’t been anywhere else). Wife got it, then daughter. Son and wife were rough for a week, son again wiped out and a bad cough. Daughter just had cold symptoms. Luckily, I avoided it !

    dissonance
    Full Member

    Real persuasive stuff.

    but but but. Apparently they admitted to their evil plan.
    As evil overlords they dont seem very good at keeping the conspiracy going. I guess thats because lizards dont understand how their prey think.

    fossy
    Full Member

    Double lucky, as my colleague had covid and was sat opposite me at work – she only tested at a weekend as she felt a bit rough. Back in on the Monday !

    gobuchul
    Free Member

    You mean this WEF?

    We penetrate the cabinets

    Seriously, you can’t get any more from the horses mouth.

    So if the Young Global Leaders scheme is a secret conspiracy, why can I see a list of their members on their website?

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    just explain to me in simple terms why a part of the UN would want to make me take a vaccine which is going to harm me?

    I’m guessing it’s because someone is pulling their strings.

    roger melrose
    Free Member

    For those of you who still trust the Vaccine and what you are told by the Pharmaceutical industry, might I suggest you simply Googgle:

    Vioxx

    binners
    Full Member

    Will it get me put on a MOSSAD hit list?

    roger melrose
    Free Member

    So if the Young Global Leaders scheme is a secret conspiracy, why can I see a list of their members on their website?

    It’s not a conspiracy – it’s all in plain sight. But if you mention it, or mention the un-democratic influence it has over global and national policy and health and science etc, then the spoon-fed cattle will call you a conspiracy theorist.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Pfft. You’re already on a MOSSAD hit list, Binners. The vaccine just allows them to find you.

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