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  • The Coronavirus Discussion Thread.
  • dissonance
    Full Member

    I don’t need to prove pathogenic viruses don’t exist, you need to prove they do.

    What would you accept as evidence?

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Am I still infectious?

    Probably are still infectious, but not to same degree as if you had a strong line. I’d probably use that, and how long since I was symptomatic, as a guide as to whether to swerve the pub tonight. As your OH can testify, it’s trivial for most people, but definitely not for a minority.

    frankconway
    Full Member

    Stop engaging with the troll.
    If no-one responds he/she/it will get the message that there is no interest in their posts.
    Leave them to continue with their laughably ignorant posts.

    jamesoz
    Full Member

    as a guide as to whether to swerve the pub tonight. As your OH can testify, it’s trivial for most people, but definitely not for a minority

    Yeah, going to give it a miss.

    veganrider
    Free Member

    At a loss here.

    No. No virologist has ever isolated a complete genetic strand of a virus and displayed it directly, in its entire length. They use short pieces of nucleic acids and then a computer to help them ‘assemble’ a fictitious long genome strand. This process is known as ‘alignment’ and is based on assumption after assumption.

    Injecting animals with a cell culture, along with other materials toxic to the new host to kill them, does not happen in nature, and it does not prove a ‘virus’ (which is a construct) caused the disease. Correlation does not equal causation.

    If you enjoy the science, then look honestly into germ vs terrain theory. You will be shocked.

    Houns
    Full Member

    Does the nursing staff know you’ve sussed the Wi-Fi password?

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    No virologist has ever isolated a complete genetic strand of a virus and displayed it directly, in its entire length. They use short pieces of nucleic acids and then a computer to help them ‘assemble’ a fictitious long genome strand. This process is known as ‘alignment’ and is based on assumption after assumption.

    Cut ‘n’ paste.

    If you enjoy the science, then look honestly into germ vs terrain theory. You will be shocked.

    No I wasn’t even mildly surprised.

    veganrider
    Free Member
    mrlebowski
    Free Member

    Nurse you say?

    A mixture of quackery & hyperbole. As usual very little of substance.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Cut ‘n’ paste.

    Very unlikely imo. I suspect that veganrider spends many hours every day on conspiracy websites. That sort of stuff is likely to be deeply imbedded in veganrider’s mind, the result of years of “research”.

    I genuinely find full-on hardcore conspiracy theorists quite fascinating, it is imo such a weird phenomena. It is an interesting response from people who feel powerless and not in control.

    Conspiracy theories puts them back in control. It answers so much for them and any doubts can be dismissed as “that’s what they want you to believe”, it is so uncomplicated.

    And along with putting them back in control it gives them the added benefit of believing that they are so much cleverer than sheeples. It boosts their self-worth.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    A mixture of quackery & hyperbole. As usual very little of substance.

    Hasn’t actually nursed in a clinical setting since 1992, either, according to his LinkedIn, which makes you wonder why he was touring around during covid in scrubs with a stethoscope. His doctorate is in social sciences, in case you were worried he had received some medical training. I’m sure he wouldn’t want to pass himself off as more qualified than he actually is. 🙂

    Wasn’t wrong about VR taking his truths from rambling Youtube* vids, though.

    *Well, an equivalent described by some as ‘The Youtube of the Far Right’.

    mrlebowski
    Free Member

    Conspiracy theories puts them back in control. It answers so much for them and any doubts can be dismissed as “that’s what they want you to believe”, it is so uncomplicated.

    And along with putting them back in control it gives them the added benefit of believing that they are so much cleverer than sheeples. It boosts their self-worth.

    Pretty much describes their motivation in a nut shell. They’d obviously gone through the looking glass when Alex Jones was described as being “controlled”…

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    I’m just hoping for his views on the controversial and unproven ‘spherical earth theory’.

    That’s created by ‘Big Travel’ to fleece you on ‘round the world’ trips. The truth is out there, they just don’t want you to see it.

    There are non so blind as those who will not see…

    Drac
    Full Member

    Ok

    As general broadcast can we wind back a little on Veganrider, throwing insults towards them won’t help matters. They’re having a break so please respect my request.

    TiRed
    Full Member

    No. No virologist has ever isolated a complete genetic strand of a virus and displayed it directly, in its entire length.

    just wondering what the antisense interference mRNA I’m working on is doing for a well known liver virus? Other than reducing replication and improving patients health. The science is much more fascinating than the alternative and the molecular biology is just fabulous.

    SARS-Cov-2 is the most studied virus in history, but there are plenty of others out there. What this new one did was give everybody just a little bit of the uneasy feeling that some people here have to experience daily when they might meet the common or garden pathogens we like to take for granted and shake off as “just a cold”.

    Naturally we’ll probably revert back to normal (before the economy does), but there will be another along in a decade or so. Hope it’s not haemorrhagic (for which there is a vaccine and antibodies too btw). But pandemics are always top of the risk register and I think we have a good idea why. Nobody recalls what they were doing in 2009, but we will regale our future generations with photos of deserted cities from 2020 in years to come.

    For reference, I don’t have a YouTube account to ramble on. I do that here. I don’t do insults either. Except perhaps Mike Yeadon, but he has form.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I don’t need to prove pathogenic viruses don’t exist, you need to prove they do. It’s never been done.

    Yeah, it has. Sorry.

    Jamze
    Full Member

    as a guide as to whether to swerve the pub tonight. As your OH can testify, it’s trivial for most people, but definitely not for a minority

    Yeah, going to give it a miss.

    I’ve had a bit of a rebound with mine. Started a couple of weeks ago, thought I was back to normal last weekend but this week the cough and congestion have returned, especially at night. So prob wise to give it a few days to be sure if you can.

    As general broadcast can we wind back a little on Veganrider, throwing insults towards them won’t help matters. They’re having a break so please respect my request

    So Veganrider gets a break from being able to post for having an opinion (that maybe right, maybe wrong), yet the ones giving him/her (someone actually used the term ‘it’ earlier) abuse carry on posting? I seem to remember last time I was given a ‘break’, character deformation carried on in my absence, with no chance to defend myself. When this was pointed out to a moderator via email, I didn’t get a reply, nor was the assassination curbed. I’m thick skinned, otherwise I wouldn’t post the things I do, ergo it didn’t particularly bother me. However, moderators should be impartial, have no political (or otherwise) leaning (just like the BBC eh? 🤣) and not be crowd pleasers. Just saying

    Del
    Full Member

    you can say what you want. right up until you can’t. it’s their bat and ball. don’t like the rules? don’t play.

    edit: and VR didn’t have an opinion, they had an agenda.

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    So Veganrider gets a break from being able to post for having an opinion (that maybe right, maybe wrong)

    Hhmmmm.

    That’s a pretty charitable take on things.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    character deformation carried on in my absence, with no chance to defend myself.

    Yeah totally agree – that is well out of order imo. But to be fair a moderator has specifically requested that doesn’t happen in the case of veganrider and has asked everyone to respect that – you even copied and pasted the request.

    So probably not appropriate to have a moan about the mods over this issue.

    Yeah totally agree – that is well out of order imo. But to be fair a moderator has specifically requested that doesn’t happen in the case of veganrider and has asked everyone to respect that – you even copied and pasted the request.

    So probably not appropriate to have a moan about the mods over this issue.

    Yeah, that’s fair enough to a degree, BUT….. the opinion of a poster in a debate (however skewed you may believe that to be) has been silenced in the way of a snooze for a little while, yet the ones actually dishing out abuse have been ‘told’ via a post in the thread? Surely you can see the issue here?

    Klunk
    Free Member

    If you enjoy the science, then look honestly into germ vs terrain theory. You will be shocked.

    Bloody Lord Foul and the Illearth Stone corrupting the land :/

    jamesoz
    Full Member

    People like Vegan rider are responsible for unnecessary deaths and illness.

    People like Vegan rider are responsible for unnecessary deaths and illness

    Bold statement, I’m interested to hear your elaboration…

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    edit: and VR didn’t have an opinion, they had an agenda.

    An excellent description. It’s a nuanced point, but sums up the issue quite nicely.

    Though I’m inclined to agree with theartist – while VR was being obtuse and evasive, being abusive when replying to them should get a ban, or at least a warning.

    If they are winding you up so much on such an emotive issue, best to step away.

    Del
    Full Member

    Bold statement, I’m interested to hear your elaboration…

    of course. because you have your own view on this. real science disagrees.

    anyway. to bed. 🙂

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Bloody Lord Foul and the Illearth Stone corrupting the land :/

    Not the thread I’d expect to see Thomas Covenant references on. Thankfully, I learned today that leprosy is not caused by a pathogen in this universe. 🙂

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    I’d actually typed and just posted this post before I read this:

    Bold statement, I’m interested to hear your elaboration…

    So here’s my elaboration:

    Pre covid by a couple of years I was actively helping a good friend’s son get the medical help he needed after suffering from a psychotic episode. He was becoming physically abusive to his mum, hence my help. He had grown up with my son and it was terribly sad to witness.

    Part of this treatment involved a regular injections of an anti psychotic.

    I took him and went with him into the room for the injection for the first few times as it was a genuine concern that he might literally make a break for it and he’s a big lad, well over 6 feet tall.

    During all this process I’d talked to him a few times about his fear of these injection. It was nothing to do with the needle or anything but a fear of being injected with “nano robots”. I didn’t understand that at all and just put it down to his illness. I had absolutely zero idea there were people on the ‘net propagating this rubbish. It was only during covid I learnt about such things.

    The point is, the rubbish spread online about covid, Bill Gates, vaccines etc has real life consequences for some people out there

    I wish they had been in that room for that lads first injection to see the utter terror on his face. He was already living in the hell in his head and they just added to it.

    TiRed
    Full Member

    If you enjoy the science, then look honestly into germ vs terrain theory. You will be shocked.

    is the right answer. I was shocked by the paucity of argument. For a decent review (if you can be bothered) I would commend the sciencebasedmedicine blog. It’s a balanced view with historical insight. Kaufman gets a hard time (rightly in my opinion) but worth the read. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/germ-theory-denial-in-the-age-of-the-covid-19-pandemic/

    As with all such theories there is often an element of truth; that the state of health of the person is a determinant of morbidity. That’s been noted for viral infections, although a disproportionate number of pregnant and very fit have also suffered. Immune competence matters – who knew?

    For those that are interested, missing from Koch’s postulates is the notion that an infectious agent can be modulated by pharmacological intervention. Of course there were few treatments available in that time, but now we have tools and medicines that can and do change pathogen behaviour. I work on several and almost all of you will have taken others many times.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    So Veganrider gets a break from being able to post for having an opinion (that maybe right, maybe wrong), yet the ones giving him/her (someone actually used the term ‘it’ earlier) abuse carry on posting?

    Veganrider was, IMO, calling anyone who said they had been affected by covid a liar. Given that for some was the loss of numerous friends and family, others a total reset for the worse on how the live their lives, that doesn’t sit well with me. Then to attack the entire modern medical profession, based on the musings of Voltaire? If they were a new visitor to a pub shouting that at all the regulars, they’d be asked to leave pretty quickly I’d wager.

    Just because someone doesn’t explicitly, directly insult someone, doesn’t mean what they write isn’t just as, if not more, offensive.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Just because someone doesn’t explicitly, directly insult someone, doesn’t mean what they write isn’t just as, if not more, offensive.

    Quoting Voltaire veiws on the medical profession a few centuries ago isn’t really offensive though. Nor is claiming that viruses don’t exist.

    I lost two friends who died with covid (one had a long term heart condition and the other was being treated for cancer) I am not at all offended by VR claiming that they didn’t have covid, anymore than I would be if he claimed the earth is flat and the moon made of cheese.

    Obviously spreading nonsense about a very serious global pandemic which has been associated with the deaths of over 6 million people is not helpful, but there will always be sufficient rebuttals on this thread to result in negative consequences only for the conspiracy theorists.

    vazaha
    Full Member

    The issue is exposure, though.

    Fringe nonsense is inevitable, but it needn’t be given space if it doesn’t deserve it.

    oldmanmtb2
    Free Member

    Its all a form of natural selection…

    Snakes bites are fine… some are some aren’t.

    Let the dumb ****s crack on.

    boardmanfs18
    Full Member

    Currently going through my first dose of the virus and the one symptom which has got me confused is the massive red rash all over me, like I’ve rolled in a bed of nettles, any ideas of how to control the itching? Can’t go to the pharmacy due to self isolation.

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    VR was winding me up hugely as well but I managed to refrain from posting and feel better as a result. I’d recommend. Should they be given the platform and airtime for their views? Mixed feelings, tbh. I like tomhoward’s pub analogy, I was actually in a pub having a similar debate with a friend a couple of weeks ago (albeit their views are not quite so extreme). We managed to debate it at speaking volume and part on good terms, I have no doubt if he’d stood on the furniture and shouted his views then the landlord may have had a word. Equally if I’d done it, so I do see theartist’s complaint at the apparent different level of moderation applied here too. But, their ball, their rules.

    Couple of other points. While I think terrain theory is generally to be filed with flat earth, etc., there is an element of truth. In that viruses do behave differently / have different effects in their host. And that’s not totally explained (if explained to any great degree) by obvious stuff like prior health, or age. Why have some very ‘fit’ people (generic term, not necessarily athletic fitness) had severe outcomes of death or long covid whereas others who’d we’d say have far less fitness have shrugged it off like a cold?

    It also I think puts paid to the theory of ‘if you weren’t confined to bed for 5 days it wasn’t flu’ – I think if we tested for flu in the same way as we do/did for covid we’d find the same spectrum of responses to that virus too. That’s a whole area of study that fascinates me and if we could understand and harness whatever the ‘never had a day off sick in my life’ folks have (other than fortitude in some cases) in a controlled way that would be an interesting outcome too.

    Finally – scariant.  Actually if you google it then it is being used as a portmanteau version of ‘variant of concern’, and not only by the more out there commentators, it is appearing in scientific press as well. While you may append some level of intent to the word by the person who uses it (with inherent bias, right or wrong) and the context it’s used in, the word itself is not a crime.

    timba
    Free Member

    Currently going through my first dose of the virus and the one symptom which has got me confused is the massive red rash all over me

    Engage.gp works pretty well. You can attach photos, but at my surgery it only works during opening hours https://engage.gp/#/login

    timba
    Free Member

    “Negative attitudes trigger negative responses in others”
    https://corporatecoachgroup.com/blog/what-is-the-betari-box
    Resist the temptation Grasshopper 🙂

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    re the rash – genuinely all over? I have anecdotally heard of a couple of cases of shingles recently, which we pretty well all have the susceptibility to as it’s a reflare of the chickenpox virus but takes some kind of immune system trigger. Like, covid maybe?

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