• This topic has 38,421 replies, 990 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by kelvin.
Viewing 40 posts - 37,401 through 37,440 (of 38,422 total)
  • The Coronavirus Discussion Thread.
  • Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    and I take specifically your information with due respect

    But you’re not willing to consider those setting vaccination policy in Australia as regards 5-12 year olds have access to and understood good information? It’s not just Australia either, check vaccination rates for the under 12s in the USA, they’re well ahead.

    Premier Icon somafunk
    Full Member

    I figure you are referring to the preprint study of Vaers data so no, it is not real.

    Damn, If only I previously knew how easy it is to grift a plausible narrative for susceptible minds I could have made a fortune from patreon

    Premier Icon reeksy
    Full Member

    What actually does this sentence mean – read it back and actually take in what you are saying?

    Erm … it makes more sense than…

    Myocarditis is real

    But let’s look closer.

    1 in 10,000 for adolescent boys…Australian data. About the equivalent of dying in a canoeing accident or skydiving. Both things i would be happy to let my lads do.

    I think i’ve worked out what you were trying to say.

    Myocarditis is really unlikely

    Or as Mohanna K, Chambers R. Risk matters in healthcare: communicating, explaining and managing risk. Radcliffe Medical Press, Abingdon, UK; 2001 call it Very low.

    Premier Icon reeksy
    Full Member

    I’ll stand by my judgement that 5yr olds do not need and should not be administered a short term vax that has been proven to have adverse health detriments and will require repeated doses to provide efficacy

    Ok. Stand by it. But why does your judgement have any sway whatsoever? I’ll stand by my judgement that flares only look nice if they’re made from purple material. I don’t care if you wear flares at all.

    But you’re not willing to consider those setting vaccination policy in Australia as regards 5-12 year olds have access to and understood good information? It’s not just Australia either, check vaccination rates for the under 12s in the USA, they’re well ahead.

    If you haven’t worked out that Oz has gone batshit mental, then you are probably batshit mental too.

    Kids don’t need this vax

    I figure you are referring to the preprint study of Vaers data so no, it is not real.

    Damn, If only I previously knew how easy it is to grift a plausible narrative for susceptible minds I could have made a fortune from patreon

    Myocarditis isn’t real? OK, believe that, I’ll believe it is

    But let’s look closer.

    1 in 10,000 for adolescent boys…Australian data. About the equivalent of dying in a canoeing accident or skydiving. Both things i would be happy to let my lads do.

    I think i’ve worked out what you were trying to say.

    It almost looks like you’re quoting figures for actually dying from covid….

    Ok. Stand by it. But why does your judgement have any sway whatsoever? I’ll stand by my judgement that flares only look nice if they’re made from purple material. I don’t care if you wear flares at all.

    My judgement has no sway

    I can judge peoples reaction to events and give my opinion at will. As can you. Who is right, who is wrong?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    If you haven’t worked out that Oz has gone batshit mental, then you are probably batshit mental too.

    What have they had? 3000 deaths? I’m sure they’ve made loads of mistakes, got things wrong, argued amongst themselves, which country hasn’t? But, I’m not sure we should be throwing stones from the UK.

    Premier Icon reeksy
    Full Member

    Batshit mental … oh, yeah, i’d much rather be living in the UK right now.

    Please explain.

    Premier Icon reeksy
    Full Member

    What have they had? 3000 deaths? I’m sure they’ve made loads of mistakes, got things wrong, argued amongst themselves, which country hasn’t? But, I’m not sure we should be throwing stones from the UK.

    Death rate of 107:1m versus 2,229:1m in the UK.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    reeksy
    Free Member
    What have they had? 3000 deaths? I’m sure they’ve made loads of mistakes, got things wrong, argued amongst themselves, which country hasn’t? But, I’m not sure we should be throwing stones from the UK.

    Death rate of 107:1m versus 2,229:1m in the UK.

    Will be interesting to see how that looks in 6 months tbh, now that they have opened up. I’d have a guess that it will be definitive proof of vaccine efficacy, not that we need it mind, but it’ll still be interesting to see how them opening up and letting the virus in affects their numbers over the long term.

    Premier Icon somafunk
    Full Member

    Myocarditis isn’t real? OK, believe that, I’ll believe it is

    It’s a genuine condition, the scientific community have examined the data with regard to myocarditis rates in unvaccinated vs vaccinated children and come to an entirely different conclusion as to your beliefs regarding risks, perhaps you should choose better gurus to follow, or move to Texas where you’ll fit right in.

    I can judge peoples reaction to events and give my opinion at will. As can you. Who is right, who is wrong?

    You can give an ill informed opinion all you want, and as for “who is right, who is wrong?”

    Doesn’t really need answering does it?

    Premier Icon Poopscoop
    Full Member

    If you haven’t worked out that Oz has gone batshit mental, then you are probably batshit mental too.

    Man, you’ve said some amazing stuff in this thread but where you draw that from is beyond me?

    I know where I’d sooner have lived along with those I care about during the pandemic… and it’s not just because of the better weather down there.

    Premier Icon reeksy
    Full Member

    Will be interesting to see how that looks in 6 months tbh

    It really will. Very high vaccination rates. So high in fact that a lot of the deaths are vaccinated people, but with comorbidities.

    Queensland has just this hour decided to let international travellers back in without quarantine too. Will be good to see my folks at some point.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Full Member

    Why would you take your 5yr old for a jab?

    Really, why?

    Because she’s probably not old enough to go on her own?

    Kids don’t need this vax

    You’re making a lot of bold statements here and you sound quite cross about it. Can you evidence any of your claims? Because

    I can judge peoples reaction to events and give my opinion at will. As can you.

    Is both correct and irrelevant. No-one cares about your opinion (or mine).

    You may be right that kids don’t need this vaccination but you need to explain why if you want your opinion to be taken seriously.

    Premier Icon batfink
    Full Member

    I’m back! What did I miss?!

    Why would you take your 5yr old for a jab?
    Really, why?

    Oh wow ok. A combination of factors really – can’t really be bothered to explain, but on-balance, we decided to get her vaccinated.

    The whole thing was very slick, they’d obviously taken lots of advice from paediatric nurses – plenty of stickers given, mickey mouse facemasks, colouring-in etc etc. Having said that, we were in/out in about 6 minutes.

    Batfink Jnr was completely cool with it – she (a 5 year old) was telling me all about vaccines and antibodies in the car on the way there. She had a bit of a wobble when she saw the needle, but I didn’t even have to deploy the freddo in the end. However, a promise of ice cream was made and kept.

    If you haven’t worked out that Oz has gone batshit mental, then you are probably batshit mental too.

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…… no.

    I typed a big response, but thought better of it. All I will say is that Australia’s response has more examples of how to do the right thing, at the right time, executed well – than almost any other country. Conversely, the UK is all the way down the other end of the table. I expect it’s hard to hear – but the rest of the world have been pointing at the UK (and the US) throughout saying “well, at least we’re not **** ing-up THAT badly”.

    So….. yeah, nah

    Premier Icon reeksy
    Full Member

    Glad it went smoothly.

    Managed to get my two in just now, thanks to a couple of no-shows.
    For the younger one we used the universal pain comparator of “not as bad as a bike crash” followed by “have a free Chuppa Chupp” and before I knew it I was listening to what great Lego set his pocket money is being spent on.

    Premier Icon batfink
    Full Member

    Good news! Our local pharmacy has been doing them, but vaccine supply has been a bit patchy, so we ended up booking into the main Sydney hub.

    For the younger one we used the universal pain comparator of “not as bad as a bike crash”

    Yes – she stood on a bee in the garden a couple of weeks ago – that is now her benchmark: “will it feel like that one-time I stood on a bee?”

    Premier Icon Poopscoop
    Full Member

    Conversely, the UK is all the way down the other end of the table. I expect it’s hard to hear – but the rest of the world have been pointing at the UK (and the US) throughout saying “well, at least we’re not **** ing-up THAT badly”.

    Hard to hear but oh so true.😐

    Sorry to “at” you @TiRed but is there any reason at all that variants stemming from the huge infection rates omicron is giving rise to are likely to be milder or worse than omicron? Vaccine evasion etc?

    Or is it roll a dice and hope for the best basically?

    Premier Icon trialtemptation
    Free Member

    I’ll back up the fact the UK’s in the shitter with my 5am positive LatFlow. #winning

    Guess it’s time to complete YouTube/Netflix/Disney

    Premier Icon trialtemptation
    Free Member

    O/T, do they also use Freddo’s as an inflation indicator in Australia too?

    Premier Icon batfink
    Full Member

    Sorry to “at” you @TiRed but is there any reason at all that variants stemming from the huge infection rates omicron is giving rise to are likely to be milder or worse than omicron? Vaccine evasion etc?

    My understanding is that there is significant selection pressure to be more transmissible, but the belief that being a milder form of the disease conveys a selection advantage is basically wishful thinking – I don’t think a reduced severity of symptoms would significantly advantage a strain in real terms. I suppose it hypothetically could, on the basis that you might not know you have it and continue to be a super-spreader for longer, but I think the existing infectious-but-non-symptomatic period provides that advantage anyway.

    *waits anxiously for TiRed to tell me I’m talking out my arse*

    Premier Icon batfink
    Full Member

    O/T, do they also use Freddo’s as an inflation indicator in Australia too?

    I’ve never heard them used in that way – but I suspect that they probably are.

    My kids are obsessed with Pavlova and Endamame beans at the moment – only because they are the subject of a Bluey episode that they find hilarious and insist on watching on repeat.

    Premier Icon reeksy
    Full Member

    So O/T now … but most of the forum is asleep so this is like late night radio.

    I think the Freddo inflation thing was started by a UK facebook post … the Australian CPI basket seems to be secret, although it does include a ‘cakes and biscuits’ portion!

    My kids just worked out that Bluey’s school is just down the road from us. A pretty exciting discovery.

    Premier Icon batfink
    Full Member

    Imagine my kids disappointment when arriving on holiday last week to “Blueys beach” only to find that it was named after the stinging jellyfish, rather than the cartoon dog.

    Premier Icon Edukator
    Free Member

    but the belief that being a milder form of the disease conveys a selection advantage is basically wishful thinking

    The virus isn’t intelligent but humans are. Milder forms won’t result in the same societal measures as more dangerous forms, if a strain with 90% mortality had appeared it wouldn’t have done very well. Omicron is being let run because it’s not as deadly.

    Premier Icon Tom-B
    Free Member

    Ah yet more tired and emotional night time posts from the usual suspect 🙄

    Premier Icon pondo
    Full Member

    My kids are obsessed with Pavlova and Endamame beans at the moment

    Edamame beans, nom nom nom. 🙂

    Premier Icon mefty
    Free Member

    They both understand the concept that it will reduce the risk of them passing the virus to more vulnerable members of the population.

    Not a good enough reason on its own to give kids a vaccine.

    Premier Icon Del
    Full Member

    Kids don’t need this vax

    I’m going to imagine a world in which someone who’s spent a considerable amount of time studying this shit has done the sums and figured out that the protection offered from vaccination beats that gained from contracting the virus, or virus + vaccination offers better protection again, and that protection is better than natural exposure aka ‘doing it the old fashioned way’ and so they’re getting a headstart on protection from a virus that at some point they will need.

    They have balanced that against the risks from this vaccination in particular and vaccinations in general and decided that it would be better for kids to have it rather than not.

    Then I expect they’ve had to show their workings out to a whole bunch of other people who have also spent a considerable amount of their lives studying this shit, who’ve then gone over the numbers very carefully, and agreed with them and each other that, on balance, vaccinating kids is the right thing to do.

    You’re welcome to play your hunch against the accumulated knowledge directed at the problem and what I imagine is a very rigourous process the details of which are very likely in the public domain. That is your right. I hope for both you and your kids that things work out.

    It’s a bit beyond me why you’d submit them to one approved vaccination but wouldn’t submit them to another but I’m sure you’ve looked in to it very carefully.

    Premier Icon paul0
    Free Member

    OK, I’ll stick my head above the parapet. I suspect when the time comes for 5-12s our kids will have the vaccine…. but I have to admit to having slight reservations about it. Which hopefully isn’t too controversial, as far as I know JCVI are still on the fence about risk-benefit for that age group. Another consideration is that by then most kids will have probably had the real thing at least once.

    EDIT – for context, I’m fully vaccinated, kids have all their normal childhood jabs

    Premier Icon Edukator
    Free Member

    Which hopefully isn’t too controversial

    Not at all, you considerations are objective.

    1/5th of pupils are absent from Madame’s school this week, anecdoteally the unvaccinated seem to have more severe cases but all have made full recoveries within a couple of weeks so far.

    Premier Icon paul0
    Free Member

    They have balanced that against the risks from this vaccination in particular and vaccinations in general and decided that it would be better for kids to have it rather than not.


    @Del
    I don’t believe this is the correct for the U12s in the UK, not yet anyway? See below for the latest JCVI statement.

    JCVI advice

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/jcvi-update-on-advice-for-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people/jcvi-statement-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-22-december-2021#:~:text=At%20the%20current%20time%2C%20JCVI,in%20a%20clinical%20risk%20group.

    Premier Icon batfink
    Full Member

    No, not controversial at all – we certainly weighed up the pro’s/cons. We have somebody in our family that is very heavily immunosuppressed – that was a significant factor.

    Premier Icon Del
    Full Member

    Thanks Paulo. I have no skin in the game. It’s clearly pretty finely balanced. Edited to add that I also understand why you’d have reservations.

    As Ed reports regarding France I know in the UK from my partner that this thing is still running rife in primary age kids. My partner had 4 classes that had got the 10% infected threshold so those classes had to be kept separated from the rest of the school. Staffing and logistical nightmare.

    Premier Icon pondo
    Full Member

    Not a good enough reason on its own to give kids a vaccine.

    F*** the vulnerable, right? I hear ya.

    Premier Icon dantsw13
    Free Member

    Pondo – there are 2 sides to this. For the vaccine to be approved in kids, it must have benefits purely for them.

    when it comes to deciding whether to vaccinate your own kids, the societal benefit comes into that decision.

    My kids are older, and are as vaccinated as they can be.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    For the vaccine to be approved in kids, it must have benefits purely for them.

    Do you consider that an absolute for all vaccines, or just those related to Covid?

    Have you determined that the vaccines for Covid aren’t beneficial “purely” for the kids receiving them at all, or just that there is not enough of a benefit? What’s the threshold?

    Premier Icon pondo
    Full Member

    Pondo – there are 2 sides to this. For the vaccine to be approved in kids, it must have benefits purely for them.

    I think (and I admit I have only a shallow grasp on this) that that was the nub of the JCVI’s “on balance, the benefits of vaccinating children outweigh the risks by so little that we’re not going to mandate it” statement, which of course became “well, the JCVI have recommended against it” in certain social media circles. AIUI, their statement made it clear that their decision solely rested on the individual child and not the broader societal impacts.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Do you consider that an absolute for all vaccines, or just those related to Covid?

    My understanding from earlier discussions on the thread are that it is the key factor in any vaccine, especially for kids? The benefits to them as individuals must outweigh the risks.

    Edit – what pondo said!

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Kids receive vaccines that are required to protect other people who have not even been born yet, and do little to benefit the kids themselves “purely”. If we decide that childhood vaccination must significantly protect/benefit the recipient directly (again what’s the threshold), then there’s a whole load we can stop giving to kids. Vaccination programmes always take the effect at the societal level into account. Risk at the individual level is key though… which is why so many countries took longer, and wanted more evidence, before moving to childhood vaccinations for this virus (and rightly so).

Viewing 40 posts - 37,401 through 37,440 (of 38,422 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Thanks for popping by - why not stay a while?IT'S FREE

Sign up as a Singletrack Member and you can leave comments on stories, use the classified ads, and post in our forums.

Join us, join in, it’s free, and fun.