Viewing 40 posts - 29,001 through 29,040 (of 29,141 total)
  • The Coronavirus Discussion Thread.
  • Premier Icon cinnamon_girl
    Full Member

    @nickc

    Thanks for the link CG, that’s a depressingly familiar picture

    Just as a follow on, you may be interested to read from the same place under “views” a piece by Copperfield that critiques the letter. Certainly food for thought imo.

    Premier Icon ElShalimo
    Full Member

    Slight detour: under English regs, when can you have other people stay overnight in your house, if not in a bubble? Is it 17th May?

    Premier Icon stcolin
    Free Member

    Is it 17th May?

    I really hope so. I need to get home to see family 🙁

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    I think it is. We have the kids’ grandparents coming to stay straight away… they haven’t seen them for over 16 months. I’m mentally preparing for all the “how tall!” comments already.

    Premier Icon montgomery
    Free Member

    Diabetes in particular is going to create more demand for health services given the likelihood of developing it is apparently increased by Covid-19 infection.

    Hmm. Or the obese and overweight who have a much worse outcome from Covid are actually undiagnosed/pre-diabetic, and this is highlighted once they’re in the system.

    The GP surgery letter is interesting (if poorly judged for a surgery that wants to stay in business). My brother-in-law was a GP (died 2017) and had a term for this: sh!t life syndrome. Not a job I could ever do, for sure.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Full Member

    Things just keep getting grimmer in India – some back-of-the-envelope estimates of excess deaths in the tens of thousands per day. Truth is no-one will ever be able to find out the true figure.

    Premier Icon ElShalimo
    Full Member

    Christ that’s grim reading

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Horrendous in India, but no one over here takingbany notice as we can soon have little hugs.

    My understanding was that India had quite a well developed bureaucracy as far as recording population went, even in the rural areas? Might be wrong, but we may get some accurately shocking data further down the line.

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Full Member

    the numbers are horrific, a quick BOTE calculation says that for a population 20x the size of the UK, and we suffered 1300 deaths/day at our peak in January, 25-30K per day is not unlikely at all on a like/like basis. It’s not that easy – different healthcare provision vs generally younger population, etc., but it’s an indicator.

    Other way – reporting 4000/day and scaling down to UK size that is 20/d which is us at end of April. Simply not credible, IMHO.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Full Member

    My understanding was that India had quite a well developed bureaucracy as far as recording population went, even in the rural areas? Might be wrong, but we may get some accurately shocking data further down the line.

    Possibly, but I’m confident that it will be politically expedient to assign as few of those deaths to Covid as possible.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    Horrendous in India, but no one over here takingbany notice as we can soon have little hugs.

    That’s a bit unfair, people have been through the wringer here as well. Folk can be forgiven for thinking of kith and kin

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    That’s a bit unfair, people have been through the wringer here as well. Folk can be forgiven for thinking of kith and kin

    Yeah, sorry, my comment did not come across well. I was trying to say that the scale of the Indian crisis has been overtaken in UK media, even though it’s got substantially worse and serves as a reminder that “we” are not properly protected until the world is protected.

    Too late to amend my rather flippant sounding post now.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    The problem I think seeing the disease in places like India is the scale of it is just mind boggling. The level of death is indescribable.

    I read a tweet this morning of a woman in touch with a service desk to get help loading a product, and of course the service desk is in New Delhi, she says while they were waiting for the remote log on to load they made small talk, and he revealed that he’d lost a family member every week/10 days or so, there was just him and an uncle left…I can’t imagine where to start with that.

    Premier Icon TiRed
    Free Member

    Per capita mortality in the U.K. peaked at double the baseline rate. If one assumes the same across other countries, then one might see 20-25k deaths per day in India at peak. The U.K. has an older population and the over 85s were disproportionately hit. However the doubling was seen across all age groups consistently.

    I imagine the reported 4000 is about 3-5 times lower than the true value, and the eventual collation of death certificates will show this. You can’t just hide the dead in a functioning democracy. Of course if 4000 was correct, then they are nowhere near the peak compared with other countries.

    Premier Icon reluctantjumper
    Full Member

    On the subject of my previous question a few pages back about returning to the gym:

    RJ – my thoughts, please note these will not align with many posters in this thread:

    the gym is legally open.
    the risk of you ‘catching’ covid from gym eqpt which hasnt been sanitised to death is really really small.
    the risk of you catching it in a packed spin class would be somewhat higher (but not because someone forgot to antibac your saddle and grips)
    seems you are able to minimise your risk by visiting during quieter periods, cleaning your own equipment….. so thats positive.

    if you are concerned about taking it to your parents – stop seeing them till its all clear, or revisit your homegym cantbearseditis or a really difficult to manage scenario, dont visit your parents after going to the gym without some period of self observation/isolation.

    I always went in quieter periods anyway, usually on the way home from visiting friends and family or sometimes in the middle of the night when I couldn’t sleep! The plan is to now go on the way back from helping my parents out (maximum time between the gym and seeing them) and avoid the morning/evening rush as much as possible.

    I’ve just started going back to my gym (Pure gym) and the cleanliness seems good. They’re doing a deep clean every night, and every piece of equipment gets cleaned down after every use by the user with anti bac wipes and pretty much everyone seemed to be doing this. Every other piece of equipment was closed off so you’re never that close to anyone else.

    I messaged the gym’s head office about my concerns and as a previous customer they offered me a free visit to chat to the staff about them (no training) which I did earlier today. The staff were perfectly open about it being a worry for them and that they’ve been very proactive on enforcing the rules on members. I asked why and the two I spoke to said straight that if they don’t the place could be closed due to an outbreak and that’s them both out of work. Can’t argue with that mentality! So I’ve joined again and will see how it goes over the next few weeks.

    Premier Icon airvent
    Free Member

    I messaged the gym’s head office about my concerns and as a previous customer they offered me a free visit to chat to the staff about them (no training) which I did earlier today. The staff were perfectly open about it being a worry for them and that they’ve been very proactive on enforcing the rules on members. I asked why and the two I spoke to said straight that if they don’t the place could be closed due to an outbreak and that’s them both out of work. Can’t argue with that mentality! So I’ve joined again and will see how it goes over the next few weeks.

    That’s good to hear. Very fair of them to be that open and allow you a visit to see if you feel comfortable.

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Full Member

    I know I’ve said that we’ll possibly never know how well lockdown really works on an absolute scientific basis because there is no ‘control’ experiment

    But for anyone claiming it doesn’t because “Sweden”, can we just declare that argument over now?

    Image

    Premier Icon monkeyboyjc
    Full Member

    Other way – reporting 4000/day and scaling down to UK size that is 20/d which is us at end of April. Simply not credible, IMHO.

    Agree – the 4k figure is, I assume, based on health care reported deaths. So the middle and upper class of the population, who can afford healthcare. There no mention of the lower class and unreported death toll – and seems to be an unwillingness in the media to investigate if the figures are different here.

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    @theotherjonv I’m certainly no anti-lockdowner, but as that’s cases per 1 million, and we measure cases per 100,000 Sweden is sitting at about 47 per 100,000, not much more than the UK and we’re well ahead in terms of vaccines.

    Or have I got that completely wrong? (every chance!). 🙂

    FWIW I’m very pro lockdown, for the simple reason we didn’t really understand any other way to control early last year, and then we didn’t really know how deadly/transmissable the Kent variant was, I don’t think there was any other option.

    Premier Icon piemonster
    Free Member

    Can you not add the UK to that chart, usually an option with OWID

    Premier Icon piemonster
    Free Member

    Edit yes you can, but I’m failing to embed the image

    Premier Icon monkeyboyjc
    Full Member

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    That’s showing UK at around 30 per million?. According to numbers I seen yesterday, then UK is ~22 per 100,000, so 220 per million?.

    Or am I being dense? 🙂

    Premier Icon impatientbull
    Full Member

    @Nobeerinthefridge I think you’re confusing new daily cases with something else. There were 15,327 new cases in the last 7 days (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/) and UK population is about 67 million (Google), so about 15327/67/7 = 33 per million new cases as a 7 day average.

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    Aye, I get the maths, I think the per 100,000 is weekly new cases.

    Premier Icon TiRed
    Free Member

    Let’s compare UK and Sweden against not-UK and not-Sweden. Cases data from OWID site from today:

    Spot the difference:

    I think it’s pretty clear that the UK is doing something right at the moment.

    Premier Icon Bunnyhop
    Free Member

    That’s comforting to read.
    Although the number of infections in Bolton have doubled in a week. Authorities urging people to have a test without symptoms. Let’s hope in that area they can get on top of things.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Outbreak at that school has pushed Erewash to top of the national table apparently – we do need to stay cautious.

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Full Member

    point of the graph I posted was that Sweden was frequently held up as having controlled their pandemic without strict lockdowns. Compare to its (culturally similar) neighbours, it seems they didn’t.

    As I say we can’t truly know as you can’t split a country in half and lock half down and let it run in another half. And you can’t really compare different cultures / economic variable countries either. But SW vs FI and NO is not a bad guesstimate comparison.

    TL:DR – lockdowns work. Vaccination works. Both together works very well……

    Premier Icon TiRed
    Free Member

    I think it rules out the nonsensical seasonality arguments as well. The other countries look no better – as noted by the tight confidence interval and inter-quartile range. Lockdown and vaccinal immunity work.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Full Member

    at the moment.

    we do need to stay cautious.

    Let see where we are in June eh?

    Premier Icon zomg
    Free Member

    Outbreak at that school has pushed Erewash to top of the national table apparently – we do need to stay cautious.

    What if I offered you a deal? We can “stay cautious” but also stop wearing masks in school classrooms and corridors. How does that sound?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57059407

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    My 18 year old only has 3 more weeks before finishing college,but says he’d be happy to keep wearing a mask as he feels it’s possibly helped reduce spread at the college – quite a few positive cases there since last September, small groups of friends having to isolate but no obvious in college spread, ie the contacts isolating don’t appear to gave caught it

    14 year old said last night – as we drove past said school – “what the heck are they doing for it to spread so fast?” Again, a few positive tests at her secondary school but again, no obvious in school transmission.

    Fwiw, the academy with the outbreak is a new build and we wondered if the rapid spread may be due to their ventilation system maybe? Reports on the local news last night suggested that cases of the Indian variant in Nottingham are a cluster somewhere else and not the school as some had suggested

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    I can’t reconcile the removal of masks in schools for teens this term with keeping cases low enough to prevent emergence or spreading of new variants. Why not vaccinate teens over the summer break and stop mask wearing in September?

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    I can’t reconcile the removal of masks in schools for teens this term with keeping cases low

    Schools are safe and have been since forever, remember?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    We have (most) kids in school now, let’s keep ‘em there for the rest of term. Why risk sending more kids home again?

    Premier Icon StuF
    Full Member

    MCTD – you must be just round the corner from me.

    I’m hoping the transmission between kids outside of school doesn’t pass it on to the school where 2 of my kids are going through the exam chaos and the added stress that causes

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    Meanwhile in Sunny Spain Mrs DOD got a phone asking her to rock up at the local sports centre for a dose of moderna on Saturday.

    Mines likely to be the following weekend.

    So It appears my Murcia online vaccination registration worked and got us into the system as we are both private health non retirees not registered in the local health system.

    Worth having your Facebook feeds following local news in Spanish as opposed to some of the ex-pat er groups.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Full Member

    Its not over yet:

    Modelling by Imperial College’s COVID-19 Response Team also found there could be a “small wave” of hospital admissions and around 9,000 additional deaths by June 2022 if steps three and four of the roadmap continue as scheduled.

    They said the timing and size of a third wave will depend on the levels of transmission between 17 May, when restrictions are next eased, and 21 June, when all limits on social contact are due to be removed.

    But, if variants of concern emerge that are comparable to the Kent variant, the third wave could be “substantially larger” – both in hospital admissions and deaths – than the spike in the winter of 2021, the researchers said.

    Yikes.

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