I agree that it is hard to say right now why IFR is dropping, but my question was more about how low it has to get before people stop caring.

The government will be keen to stop us worrying about Covid, the press must be getting bored by now and people are generally not great at balancing different risks and tend to worry about the stuff they are told to worry about. So, could we get to a point where numbers increase again but nobody really cares?

Well, I like to think I’m almost well balanced if not erring on the paranoid side with most things, yet I went out for my first 6 person max club ride today, and was definitely on edge, more so when we stopped at the end for coffee, and everyone sat relatively close together.    People are careful not to allow sweaty helmets and gloves to touch others, not pats on the back and (we were outside) people walking the pavement/we did pause to allow distance for people passing.

In other words, people in general seem to still be being very cautious.  I get the impression that if numbers start to noticeably increase a lot of people will get increasingly nervous.

Reports up here suggest that compliance with compulsory face covering while shopping is almost 100% I think the message has got through and there’s a certain amount of peer-pressure/willingness to conform helping.

Kryton, I have read that sweaty helmets are a major risk to transmission. Maybe a flexible plastic cover would help?

😀

I never want to hear about “digital solutions” from this government ever again… useless lying incompetent shites that they are…

Pub registration for contact tracing, New Zealand vs England.

We are so shit at everything. pic.twitter.com/io2PYY0QsS

— Jon (@ormondroyd) July 4, 2020

Ormondroyd used to post on here didn’t he?

scotroutes
Subscriber

Reports up here suggest that compliance with compulsory face covering while shopping is almost 100%

It felt to me (unscientific) that as soon as they said it was going to be mandatory, mask use went up to something pretty close to 100%, at least in supermarkets.

Depressing the number of comments that say “there aren’t enough police to enforce it”. This is not the sort of law that should need constant enforcement, it’s the sort of law that the huge majority should just follow because it’s easy and right, like not going out robbing.

Ormondroyd used to post on here didn’t he?

Yup. He’s sound. Not seen him for years though.

If we’d managed to build an app like the NZ one above to register attendance at pubs etc you can guarantee that folk on here would have been set against it because of big brother knowing where and when they go for a pint, and who with. Kobyashi Maru scenario for the government I reckon.

Agreed, because we have a government we cant and shouldn’t trust. With a shameful record of self interest, distraction and incompetence on the public health side of the pandemic. NZ government has been exemplary, ergo there is a high level of trust.

You can anonymously use digital sign ins, and be notified when you have been in contact with someone spreading the virus… you can’t anonymise a slip of paper with your details on for anyone to read and share…

Good face mask usage here in Glasgow even before it became mandatory. And very few new cases in Scotland now.

Incredibly stupid but also deeply sad
https://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/i-thought-this-was-a-hoax-patient-in-their-30s-dies-after-attending-covid-party

I never want to hear about “digital solutions” from this government ever again… useless lying incompetent shites that they are…

Funny, the pub I’ve been to for the last two evenings has laminated cards on all of the tables with a QR code that you can scan, which opens a site where you put in your location, name and a phone number, which seems like a ‘digital solution to me; perhaps my interpretation of ‘digital solution’ is different to yours – perhaps you think anything that needs to be hand-written is a ‘digital solution’…
Oh, and Eiré has issued a C19 tracing app, that also works in the rest of the UK, and uses the Apple/Google SDK, I’ve downloaded it onto my phone, it accepts a phone number based in England just as easily as one in Eiré/ N Ireland.

Agreed, because we have a government we cant and shouldn’t trust. With a shameful record of self interest, distraction and incompetence on the public health side of the pandemic.

Plenty of others around, not just the U.K…

If we’d managed to build an app like the NZ one above to register attendance at pubs etc you can guarantee that folk on here would have been set against it because of big brother knowing where and when they go for a pint, and who with. Kobyashi Maru scenario for the government I reckon.

I doubt many on here give much of a rat’s ass about anyone knowing they’ve been for a pint, I know I don’t.
Plus nobody would know where I’ve been by looking at my phone’s location, ‘cos I use a VPN and I don’t use Google or Fb, LinkedIn, WhatsApp, Instagram…

On thursday I saw very few masks in use in Leith and was thinking that it looked bad for compliance on friday onward. In fact compliance seems to be almost complete ( apart from the chippy where no one had one – staff or punters)

I have also seen almost no whinging online from scotland about wearing masks – but loads from other places.

I put this down to two things – trust in our government and the self congratulating streak that runs thru modern scotland – “we are better than that / them” I really think that there is this effect of trying to be seen as doing the right thing to differentiate ourselves. I don’t really care what the motivation is tho as it all helps make this country a nicer place

Plus nobody would know where I’ve been by looking at my phone’s location, ‘cos I use a VPN and I don’t use Google or Fb, LinkedIn, WhatsApp, Instagram…

Sorry to burst your bubble but cell pings with an accuracy of +/- 12m accuracy on average are easily available on the data market.   Although it’s illegal – I wonder if this privacy would be legitimately broken for a COVID outbreak – to tie them back to a personally named record, it’s easy to plot where they reside On a regular basis for 6-7 hours a night.

Having said that I’m talking about some pretty clever career data scientists, I’m not sure any of those work for the conservatives given recent history.

I never want to hear about “digital solutions” from this government ever again…

laminated cards on all of the tables with a QR code that you can scan, which opens a site where you put in your location, name and a phone number

interpretation of ‘digital solution’ is different to yours

Is that government provided? Is it open to very obvious abuse and phishing? How do you know to trust what’s at the end of that link? How is the data collected anonymised? How long is it retained? Why are people expected to be filling in multiple forms when solutions already exist for this? Sounds like the very worst solution I can think of.

I doubt many on here give much of a rat’s ass about anyone knowing they’ve been for a pint, I know I don’t.

I can see why a group of women might not want to give pub staff they don’t know their addresses on bits of paper to keep behind the bar though.

Oh, and Eiré has issued a C19 tracing app, that also works in the rest of the UK, and uses the Apple/Google SDK, I’ve downloaded it onto my phone, it accepts a phone number based in England just as easily as one in Eiré/ N Ireland.

Are you planning on getting 80% of UK smart phone users to download that app? Or are you just going to accept that what you’re doing is pointless, as none of the people you come into contact with in England will be using it?

Actually, if you do start some campaign to adopt the Irish app, count me in… sounds more likely to succeed this summer than waiting for our government to deliver.

Eiré

Where now?

I doubt many on here give much of a rat’s ass about anyone knowing they’ve been for a pint, I know I don’t.

But you can imagine people for whom that would be an issues though, right?

Plus nobody would know where I’ve been by looking at my phone’s location, ‘cos I use a VPN and I don’t use Google or Fb, LinkedIn, WhatsApp, Instagram…

The idea that if they wanted to this Govt (or any other for that matter) couldn’t track you via your phone whenever they felt like it is going to be defeated because you don’t use a popular social media channel is flat earth thinking, frankly.

Plus nobody would know where I’ve been by looking at my phone’s location, ‘cos I use a VPN and I don’t use Google or Fb, LinkedIn, WhatsApp, Instagram…

Oh noes, I use Google, Facebook and Whatsapp.

Is Boris in my attic drilling holes and peeking at me?

Ffs get a grip, no one cares where you’ve been, unless you’ve been a naughty boy.

Ffs get a grip, no one cares where you’ve been, unless you’ve been a naughty boy.

You don’t really get the security aspects of vpn do you?

Not sure why anyone would think they are important enough that the government (or anybody else for that matter) cares where they have been, or what they have been doing. Just comes across as paranoid..

Anyways, I heard there was going to be some news next week about vacine progress..can’t imagine it’s going to be confirmation that it works based on the fact there’s not been enough community transmission to establish that yet..

You don’t really get the security aspects of vpn do you?

Did I say anything about the VPN?

I can see why a group of women might not want to give pub staff they don’t know their addresses on bits of paper to keep behind the bar though.

I’ve not yet been asked for an address for track and trace, but I get the point.

No data system is completely safe. I’m fear that the paranoia on the issue in the UK will hamstring any solution.

It is something that “any solution” needs to overcome, not ignore, if it is to be a solution.

Did I say anything about the VPN?

You quoted it in the post followed with your usual sarcy comments, so effectively yes, you did.

Here’s a paper which discusses the possibility of preexisting immunity:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-0389-z

I’m fear that the paranoia on the issue in the UK will hamstring any solution.

It’s not paranoia, just prudence. The current shower have form for big data abuse and like the environment every little that we can do to thwart the growth of their espionage helps. It is none of their business what we the populace do, unless you are a sociopath who worries that you’ll get yours if you don’t keep tabs on everything.

Funny, the pub I’ve been to for the last two evenings has laminated cards on all of the tables with a QR code that you can scan, which opens a site where you put in your location, name and a phone number, which seems like a ‘digital solution to me; perhaps my interpretation of ‘digital solution’ is different to yours

This is the official “world beating track and trace system” in action – subcontracted to pub landlords. Likewise the customers at the pub in Batley that was shut down were contacted by the landlord, not by PHE. Maybe this is a subtle way to get us all back in the pub – it’s the only way anyone will get tested for Cv ?

To be fair… you can get tested easily now… especially if you can drive.

The track/trace/isolate and app failures are obvious and indefensible, at this late stage. We needed and should have had this fully in place before we relaxed social distancing measures (the government even said so themselves, before they realised their private sector chums weren’t really up to that kind of delivery timeline… to put it mildly).

So masks are not popular with some of Johnson’s base….

It’s the one thing I genuinely don’t get…

Why is wearing a mask such a huge issue for some?…

I mean it, quite literally, won’t kill you…

Covid on the other hand..

So masks are not popular with some of Johnson’s base

Is that a genuine bias in Tory voters?

every little that we can do to thwart the growth of their espionage helps

At the expense of public health and safety?

My data has been widely available probably since the internet was invented. No one seems to have abused that knowledge yet.

I genuinely don’t see the risk to me. I don’t care who knows where I go or who I’m with or what websites I look at. And no one has yet given me a concrete example of it happening to them either.

And no one has yet given me a concrete example of it happening to them either.

Brexit ad blitz data firm paid by Vote Leave broke privacy laws, watchdogs find

You quoted it in the post followed with your usual sarcy comments, so effectively yes, you did.

Oh I’m sorry, should I have quoted it as follows just to make sure you understood it despite me specifically calling out the items I was referring to –

Plus nobody would know where I’ve been by looking at my phone’s location, ‘cos I use a and I don’t use Google or Fb, LinkedIn, WhatsApp, Instagram…

My bad.

So masks are not popular with some of Johnson’s base

Because the mask has been sold as a device to protect others so if you don’t care about others then why would you want to wear a mask.

On a train heading into Leeds at the moment. I’m the only person wearing a mask. No guard on board (well, there is, but he’s hiding at the back).

Can’t see it working in shops, most people are incapable of following the one way system or social distancing guidelines to begin with.