Where are all the Shimano equipped bikes?

I’m in the market for a xc / short travel trail bike (ok, it’s a downcountry bike).  The new specialized epic, new model trek top fuel, transition spur they are all only available in SRAM transmission.  Even the yt, cannon stuff is all SRAM as well.  Is there a shortage on Shimano stuff?

I like Shimano brakes (and harmonising across a few bikes is good for spares / maintenance), I really like current 12sp shimano XT shifiting and can’t be bothered with the faff of another thing to charge just to go for a ride.

Buy frame only?

There appears to be a push to get all higher end MTBs onto battery powered transmission. Whether that turns into a blip… or “the future” depends on the buying habits of riders over these next few years.

I expect it’s because they can go to SRAM and get a deal on drivetrain, brakes and suspension. Whereas if you want Shimano drivetrain and brakes you need to speak to Fox for suspension or the other smaller players. Or SRAM who being cynical will probably offer you a better deal on bouncy bits if you also buy drivetrain and brakes from them.

Canyon offer 4 versions of the Lux Trail CF

3 of them are Shimano equipped

Frame only is looking like the option.  Once they get released that is.

I thought I read somewhere that sram OE pricing is ridiculously low and that they require bike companies to order far in advance of  the model year.

It could be a hangover from the boom where companies panic ordered and are now left with an abundance of sram parts.

speculation and hearsay, though.

as kelvin said, look at frame only options and build your bike to your own spec.

I expect it’s because they can go to SRAM and get a deal on drivetrain, brakes and suspension. Whereas if you want Shimano drivetrain and brakes you need to speak to Fox for suspension or the other smaller players. Or SRAM who being cynical will probably offer you a better deal on bouncy bits if you also buy drivetrain and brakes from them

Thats not really a problem/thing – you can buy from one, two, or all three no issues. Especially in the current market. However SRAMs lead times went back to sensible a lot quicker than Shimano’s have, so I suspect its just easier for product managers.

No one suggested a FlareMAX – you can pick your groupset. I’d have thought that would fit the xc / downcountry label

Avoiding Shimano leaky brakes can only be a good thing in my eyes. I like their drivetrain stuff but they’re behind the times a bit with the electronic offering which lets face it is all consumers want to buy now on a brand new bike.

the electronic offering which lets face it is all consumers want to buy now on a brand new bike

Well, apart from the OP (who isn’t alone).

There’s a heavily reduced large Element c70 with XT at Paul’s cycles.

I have no interest in electronic shifting personally and also have no desire for SRAM. I have no issues with any Shimano I’ve had and love XT all day long. I ended up buying a Shimano equipped doner bike and the frame I wanted and swapped it all over to get what I wanted, but appreciate that is difficult if the frame only option is not available or uneconomical.

I was chatting to a LBS about a bespoke build for a HT – first time in a dozen years, so I am totally out of the loop standards wise etc – and their take was that SRAM are just so much better in terms of ambition and durability that it is very difficult to recommend Shimano for a decent level build.

As above, SRAM played Shimano at their own game of offering full groupsets at a discount. Shimano also hampering their own efforts by having a range of speeds and introducing another freehub while everything SRAM is 12 speed Eagle. There is also the small matter of one of their factories burninging down…

I was a big Shimano fan until 2018 when I bought a bike with Eagle. I fully expected to hate it but I was so wrong.

Functionally, it was superb but it has been the durability that has blown me away. It took thousands of miles to wear out the (very expensive) cassette and chain.

Guide brakes were pretty good for a few years until they weren’t. The drivetain is still going strong.

I’m a big fan. Maybe try it – you might like it.

I buy frame only, always loved XT stuff, never really liked Sram for brakes, drivetrain but prefer Rockshox over Fox,  it would be nice to see more options for Shimano spec,  be it full or just drivetrains, they don’t have to spec Shimano brakes as there’s plenty other options. There’s also issues with alloy framed bikes with higher spec, it seems like  XT spec equals carbon version in most cases,  Nukeproof for example, alloy meant disappointing and lower spec option.

I’ve noticed the same. My two issues with SRAM is that the 12 speed cassettes are silly money and the DUB bottom bracket system is shit.

Surely if you just flog the transmission groupset and replace with xt you’ll be quids in without too much faff. Frame only seems to be punitively expensive from the big brands.

I rode an AXS bike for a few months, it was nice and very easy to live with, however, if I’d scrunched the mech the cheapest SRAM GX AXS derailleur was £360, a 12-speed XT rear mech is £109.99.

Until derailleurs stop being big dangly fragile objects hanging in harms’ way I’m probably sticking with mechanical just so I don’t have to have a little cry if I clip one on something.

Can’t fault the tech itself.

I think there’s probably a bit of SRAM OE customers mopping up their COVID pre-orders, while Shimano seems to be concentrated on rolling out their new 12 speed drop bar groups and of course focussing on the budget to Mid tier with CUES.

they’re behind the times a bit with the electronic offering which lets face it is all consumers want to buy now on a brand new bike.

I politely disagree

No one suggested a FlareMAX

Damn you! Now I can’t stop lusting after one of those 😂

I was chatting to a LBS about a bespoke build for a HT – first time in a dozen years, so I am totally out of the loop standards wise etc – and their take was that SRAM are just so much better in terms of ambition and durability that it is very difficult to recommend Shimano for a decent level build.

(IMO) The real litmus test for SRAM will be how many of the AXS groups sold today are still going in a decade, on previous form I don’t think they can be trusted not to slip out new (non-backwards compatible) mechs, batteries, etc and deliberately make otherwise functional kit “obsolete” within 5 years…

In fairness Shimano learned the same tricks from SRAM and try their damnedest to make sure old no longer works with new stuff…

Having sold you on a SRAM group I’d be expecting a discount from the LBS now, bolting on and pairing two bits of wireless electronics should take far less time than ferreting Bowden cables through a frame and dialing in the shifting…

I’m tempted by AXS for road but the current costs (especially after market spares) plus Shimano pushing hard for the same market with newer DI2 pulls me back their way a bit so I’ll swither no doubt.

MTB is staying mechanical though, I’m not spending that much on drivetrain parts that get covered in mud and bashed on trees, plus there’s much more competition now than just Shimano and SRAM for that end of the market there so both could miss out if they’re not careful.

Shimano have really f’d up over the past few years IMO.

Used to love their gear including the drivetrain and brakes.

For drivetrain they’ve been eaten from both ends by (1)SRAM who have innovated/developed way beyond, and also (2) the likes of Microshift who have taken swathes of the lower end of the market with cheaper and more functional gear.

Also the questionable reliability of shimano brakes (despite how much I love the feel when they work well). Best not to mention the eeb motors either.

Every time a thread comes up asking what eeb to get, or what brakes, there are always multiple posters warning off Shimano.

I simply won’t buy a SRAM equipped bike. If that limits my choice then so be it. It’s not like there’s a death of quality bicycles about.

My last 2 bikes, Trance X and XTC have been Shimano SLX equipped. It was a major choice in my decision to buy, as well as the incredible spec offered for the price. I know there is a negative vibe against Giant on here but in my own experience they have been faultless. I also have an old SCR and Defy Advanced Pro which are again Shimano equipped and have been faultless. I just like Shimano I’m afraid, SRAM just looked a bit chunky to me.

Spark 910 or 930 depending on budget willl see you on a killer DC bike with full Shimano.

Also unsure how we can suggest SRAM are so amazing when tabling the sx Gruppo that has an immediate upgrade requirement. No level of Shimano needs swapping out of the box.

electronic offering which lets face it is all consumers want to buy now on a brand new bike.

No bloody way so I want it on my bikes….

I’ve got it on my eBullit cargo bike and it works fine, but it’s got a bloody great big battery. It works great, but I don’t want the added complexity on my analogue bikes.

I simply won’t buy a SRAM equipped bike. If that limits my choice then so be it.

Conversely I couldn’t give a toss whether the recent bike I bought came with Shimano or SRAM drivetrain (or Rockshox or Fox forks FWIW) as long as it wasn’t NX/SX or sub-Deore level. But it was a hard no for SRAM brakes (cos of DOT fluid).

It’s not like there’s a death of quality bicycles about

I take it you’re not 192 cm tall… 😄

I’ve been a shimano type of chap for years and years, from 9spd LX to 12spd XTR with both 10 & 11 speed iterations in between, I’ve only ever had one shimano brake lever fail and never a caliper.

Electronic gearing does appeal to me – I have Di2 on the road – but my 12 speed XTR has been faultless for over 4 years  now so I see no reason to change.

The kids bikes have SRAM 11 & 12 speed, because that’s what they came with, but the other one has 10 speed shimano. Not a problem with any of them.

My CX bikes are SRAM 1×11, mainly cos they came with it and also because I have grown to rather dislike the whole shifter blade moving to change gears with mechanical shimano.

Conversely I couldn’t give a toss whether the recent bike I bought came with Shimano or SRAM drivetrain

Same here – always had Shimano but my new MTB has SRAM and so far it’s been faultless. The OP has a point though, it’s much harder to find Shimano equipped MTBs now.

Was a big fan of Shimano but not anymore.

No one mentioned the bonded cranks that failed?

I’ve GX Eagle on two mountain bikes and both have been brilliant.

I do have Shimano GRX on my cx bike but that’s because I don’t like double tap shifting (it has a solid crank so can’t come apart but does have a proprietary chainring bolt spacing which is annoying). I’d go sram wireless shifting if I was buying a new cx/gravel bike.

I think I need to clarify, upon reflection. I’d probably take a mechanical SRAM drivetrain (but still prefer Shimano brakes), it’s the extra battery faff I mainly don’t want.  The downside of lower spec SRAM is then down spec suspension and wheels when buying a whole bike.

I’ve noticed less bikes specced with Shimano. Disappointing as I would prefer a Shimano build. Some bike brands are more likely to spec Shimano than others. For example Pivot and Yeti have historically worked closely with Shimano. Can only see one model from Yeti with a Shimano option now. Trek and Canyon have plenty, Specialized almost none. I keep hearing Sram offer very good deals to attract large OEM customers. Shimano are clearly cheaper aftermarket.

There seems to be a portrayal of Shimano as being on the backfoot and needing to respond to Sram, which I don’t really think is entirely fair, other than wireless shifting if that’s something you care about. I guess at some point we will find out if Shimano cares about wireless too. They’ve had long enough now that I’m thinking maybe they don’t? Sram do come out with genuinely innovative products. But like a lot of American companies (especially Apple) they are very good at marketing products as though they’ve designed something new and amazing, when in fact they’re late to the party and the rest of the industry has been there and done that, or just isn’t interested.

I’ve ridden a couple of bikes with AXS Transmission now and didn’t feel anything that justified the hype or cost for me.

Post COVID Shimano refused to increase capacity above their normal growth rate, meaning they missed out on a lot of orders but kept going. Sram allegedly built a factory and a whole load of gear that had been ordered. The orders fell through so I imagine the OEM market is currently flooded with cheap sram stuff they’re trying to get rid of. Might explain things?

Shimano all the way

Balfe’s bikes still have the top fuel 9.7 carbon xt/slx/deore build on sale, great bike… bought one

I was a big Shimano fan until 2018 when I bought a bike with Eagle. I fully expected to hate it but I was so wrong.

Same here, I even had a full XT groupset in various on-line checkouts ready to go on the bike. You’d genuinely have to pay me to move back to Shimano now. From GX upwards SRAM 12 sp is long lasting, robust and hassle free.

I guess at some point we will find out if Shimano cares about wireless too. They’ve had long enough now that I’m thinking maybe they don’t?

Apparently the problem is more IP/patent related than anything else, road DI2 is now wireless, from the levers to the mechs, but the battery is still remote and thus customers need a wire run through the chainstay and up the seat tube. SRAM’s solution (a removable, rechargeable battery on every mech) is a protected idea, and it’s an obviously good solution.

For MTB I can’t see batteries hidden in the frame appealing to OEMs or customers when AXS exists but Shimano being Shimano, are hamstrung by their own rules, they can’t just pay for Access to a patented concept, and the obvious next solution, integrating the battery into the mech, is going to be heavily criticised if you end up with a life limiting battery sealed inside the product.

I run mainly Shimano but have been demoing a few bikes recently, and all have been SRAM based.

Brakes: I’ve hated the feel of all SRAM brakes I’ve tried, but have also vowed not to buy any more Shimanos after too many leaky callipers. Magura next time maybe.

Shifters: nothing has met the ergonomics of the XT shifter for me. I hated the first Axs bike I tried due to some odd shaped and positioned shifter. The second with 2 simple buttons was far better. But it still doesn’t shift any better than XT. Only benefit I can tell is not having to maintain cables. Swapping an inner only takes a minute, and I change outers less than once a year. I definitely wouldn’t pay any more to have Axs over XT.

NX didn’t seem as terrible as I was expecting, but standard freehub means I’ll avoid it, whereas I’d happily run Deore.

The huge step from 1st to 2nd gear is a deal breaker for me on SRAM. And I like the XT shifter.

I do like that the SRAM cassettes and chains above a certain spec level don’t rust, useful when you run wax based lubes.