Well they use capital punishment in the states and they still have plenty of crime there. Why would that be I wonder?

Reoffending rates from those subject to capital punishment seem to be pretty low though Molgrips 😉

INRAT

Tazer them until they sh*t themselves

ernie,: eh?. That’s not a good way of moving the conversation on.

If you don’t like the way I put it, imagine I said this:

“It would do that because the prospect of physical pain, possibly combined with public humiliation, would be more of a deterrent than the prospect of a small fine with an even smaller possibility of being collected and/or a short suspended sentence”

I’m not saying it should be brought in, it needs to be brought in, or that bringing it in immediately would cure all society’s ills at a stroke, but you questioning the assertion that it could possibly deter crime is a bit facile. Just trolling for an argument, otherwise you’d have said something a bit more moderate and sensible.

But I bit, there’s a response anyway. We’ve probably moved on by 30 posts by the time I post it anyway! hey ho.

Edit: missed your edit. I made up the 4 week suspended sentence as a hypothetical example of an alternative punishment. I also missed the fact that I’m a repeat troll accuser!

The states illustrates TJ’s point quite well – draconian sentencing, death penalties, the whole lot – and the result – massive crime rates and the biggest prison population in the world, by a massive factor

But Singapore has the same draconian sentencing etc, and is one of the safest places in the world.

But Singapore has the same draconian sentencing etc, and is one of the safest places in the world.

precisely, so something other than punishment is the factor in why people do or don’t commit crimes

it is proven that the softly softly lefty approach does not work.
would it not be only fair to bring a bit of short sharp shock type punishment into our society?

it is proven that the softly softly lefty approach does not work.

Is it?

And what’s this ‘THE’ lefty approach? I wasn’t aware each side was only allowed one each.

it is proven that the softly softly lefty approach does not work

why not try a respectful humanist approach then..

as someone said on facebook earlier.. set up a huge effin sound system and blast out some heavy heavy tunes.. give ’em access to some cheap drugs and booze..

that’ll keep ’em amused for..

well, for ever really

I received corporal punishment throughout my school days, and it was by far my preferred form of punishment. Yes it hurt and some of the teachers were right sadistic bastards who would so much force that it bent gold rings and left blood blisters on your hands, but it was over and forgotten quickly.

And it has to be said that getting the cane was seen as a bit of a laugh, particularly if there were several of you getting thrashed – it was hard not giggle sometimes, especially when you saw your mates wincing in pain. Getting detention on the other hand really pissed me off.

I know that birching is far more severe, but the principles are just the same – specially when you’re dealing with bad lads.

molgrips, do you think the youth of the 50’s would have carried on like this.

it is proven that the softly softly lefty approach does not work.

Ton, what are you on about mate? Seriously?

Do you even know yourself?

This man was a ‘Lefty’. He was not very nice:

(Pic from Daily Fail ftw! 😆 )

Yunki: that’s a brave new world.

Couldn’t we just outsource their indefinite incarceration to some dodgy third world state?

Elfin, He wasn’t softly softly, either!

precisely, so something other than punishment is the factor in why people do or don’t commit crimes

It does rather, doesn’t it. Mind you, there’s the simple issue that if someone is in prison they can’t commit crimes. Simplistic, but true.

we could eye for an eye ….take organs out relative to the damage caused?

But Singapore has the same draconian sentencing etc, and is one of the safest places in the world.

It also has only 2% unemployment.

Drugs and Choons for the masses, and the Alphas moving society on through intelligent, probing discourse on STW?

Yunki: that’s a brave new world.

and it would stop them feeling ostracised and victimised and would also create industry and start rebuilding mutual trust in a ma-flippin-hoosive way.. would end the drug war too..

Elfinsafety – Member
Also get rid of the Human rights too.
What a good idea! Can I come round your house with a load of mates, smash your home up, rape your wife, torture your kids and then murder you all then?

We have never needed this in our country!
All i see is people come into this country and used it so they can’t be sent home when there done wrong!
Just seems to me its conveniently used with people whom have done wrong.

It also has only 2% unemployment.

So we need more employment. Cut benefits and bring back national service?

national service .. but on the streets weeding sweeping etc

So we need more employment. Cutting benefits and bringing back national service?

But in relation to these riots…. the people being charged so far aren’t unemployed – Opera Steward, Forklift Truck Driver, Graphic Designer, Under Graduate, Organic Chef….

Grantway – what on earth are you on about?

You know the UK has been bound by the European convention on human rights since the 50s and that the UK was one of the countries who helped write it?

The only difference the human right act makes is incorporating this into UK law so that recourse can be thru the UK courts not strasbourg

All i see is people come into this country and used it so they can’t be sent home when there done wrong!

Oh dear.

At least some of them can write betterly than wot u can….

I am aware of that But incorporating it into our law is what I don’t like.

national service .. but on the streets weeding sweeping etc

That would stop looting ?

I had no idea that the solution was that easy.

Still, I don’t often read the Mail/Telegraph so I guess I’m at a disadvantage.

tie them up and keep them awake while tj gives them a jolly good talking to and explains the error of their ways

grantway – Member

I am aware of that But incorporating it into our law is what I don’t like.

Makes absolutely no difference bar human rights violations can be dealt with in UK courts not Strasbourg. We still have the rights come what may – our rights did not change with the incorporation of it

totalshell – Member
national service .. but on the streets weeding sweeping etc

This. The Armed Forces do not need to be dealing with these oiks.

Oh, either that or let Ed have at ’em!

Bring it on…..

Ah, a bit of the old Ludwig Van! 😀

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MCnnfXPSHw[/video]

All together now:

O freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen
Und freudenvollere!

Freude, schöner Götterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische, dein Heiligtum;
Deine Zauber binden wieder,
Was die Mode streng geteilt;
Alle Menschen werden Brüder,
Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

Wem der große Wurf gelungen,
Eines Freundes Freund zu sein,
Wer ein holdes Weib errungen,
Mische seinen Jubel ein!
Ja, wer auch nur eine Seele
Sein nennt auf dem Erdenrund!
Und wer’s nie gekonnt, der stehle
Weinend sich aus diesem Bund.

Freude trinken alle wesen
An den Brüsten der Natur;
Alle Guten, alle Bösen
Folgen ihrer Rosenspur,
Küsse gab sie uns und Reben,
Einen Freund, geprüft im Tod;
Wollust ward dem Wurm gegeben,
Und der Cherub steht vor Gott!

Froh, wie seine Sonnen fliegen
Durch des Himmels Prächt’gen Plan,
Laufet, Brüder, eure Bahn,
Freudig, wie ein Held zum Siegen.

Seid umschlungen, Millionen,
Diesen Kuß der ganzen Welt!
Brüder! über’m Sternenzelt
Muß ein lieber Vater wohnen,
Ihr stürzt nieder, Millionen?
Ahnest du den Schöpfer, Welt?
Such’ ihn über’m Sternenzelt!
über Sternen muß er wohnen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMRANk8t0rE

nedrapier – did I interview you for my PhD about 15 years ago? It’s just that you remind me of a somewhat vitriolic old chap … when asked about what he thought was the solution to the causes of environmental problems, he worked up a sweat (and reasonable amount of spittle) to sound forth about ‘the need for birching and public humiliation … punish the yoof by putting them in stocks in front of Morrisons’ …

(and to this day I still struggle to see how this will resolve desertification or climate change 🙂 )

national service .. but on the streets weeding sweeping etc

^^ This.

Sentences to be defined by a volume of collected waste. If you’re a lazy git then it’ll take you months to work off your sentence put your back into it and you could be done in a few weeks.

It’s just that you remind me of a somewhat vitriolic old chap … when asked about what he thought was the solution to the causes of environmental problems, he worked up a sweat (and reasonable amount of spittle) to sound forth about ‘the need for birching and public humiliation … punish the yoof by putting them in stocks in front of Morrisons’ …

(and to this day I still struggle to see how this will resolve desertification or climate change :))

😆

I propperly lolled….

The human rights act was intended to stop the death camps happening again.Any scumbag that hides behind it is kind of cheapening 6 Million peoples death.
There have always been scumbags and riots.Prison doesn’t work or rehabilitate. How about we let prison punish.
Flog anyone caught on video then make them mend something.
Vengeance pure and simple.

CaptainFlashheart – Member

The Armed Forces do not need to be dealing with these oiks.

Too tough a job for the Armed Forces to take on Flashheart ?

I’m surprised at you, I really am – I thought you might have had more faith in Her Majesty’s Armed Forces.

I do, Ernie, but I’d prefer that they were doing their job, rather than babysitting people who vehemently don’t want to be there.

I don’t think pressing people in to the armed services is the best idea. There’s some merit for the idea of criminals volunteering to join, especially as it would give them all sorts of skills which are transferable in to civilian life when they’ve done their time. Just forcing people in isn’t the best method, for either the military or for the rehabilitation of the criminals in question.

I’d prefer that they were doing their job, rather than babysitting people who vehemently don’t want to be there.

I thought their job was to turn boys into men ?

Turn the children into bio fuel and run the fire engines on the result..

extreme? Perhaps. I’ll get my coat.