Hi am looking to build a pair of wheels, its about the only bike related biulding that i have not done so would really like to do it myself rather than have them built.

Have looked at the wheel pro web site and I am pretty happy with the spoke length calculator.
MAin question is before I order spokes should I build the wheels 2 x cross or 3 x cross.
The wheels are CK hubs on Stans ZTR 355 rims. Will be used on a hardtail for mostly trail riding in the lakes i weigh 80kg .
What does anyone recomend? Is there a big differnce in weight / feel between plain gauge spokes and DB spokes (plain gauge seem much cheaper!)
Dont want to by the wrong spokes!!!

Thanks….

wheel pro spoke calculator here
http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/

Hi there.
I always go for the 3x and have never had issues with my mtb builds.
As for plain gauge and db spokes, my mtb wheels are always made with db.

But it ain’t written in stone and I’m about to build a rear wheel for my fixie road bike with plain gauge. Once they’re up to tension, I’d probably find it hard to notice a quantifiable difference.

I’m sure someone will be along to say different. Heck, there’s plenty o’ people who reckon they notice the flex in a head tube (as opposed to the fork or wheel flexing…)…

As phatstanley put x3 every time!

2x would prob work ok but 3x is “standard”

db spokes resist fatigue better as they stretch in the middle…why on earth are you wanting to save a few £ when you’ve splashed out on CK hubs?

3 cross is the only way to go. If I were spunking that much on hubs and rims though, I’d get some Sapim CX-rays or DT super comp to finish the job properly.

3x is the only way to go for disc brakes, and you would be surprised how much you can feel the difference between butted and pg spokes! As said already, double butted spokes have inherent elasticity which makes them more durable, more comfortable and lighter. Also, brass nipples though heavier are much nicer to work with than alloy. I do however have a curve-ball with regards to nipples… DT Swiss Hex-lock nipples are spectacular. Ever since I stumbled upon them when rebuilding a prebuilt pair of DT wheels I have used them on all of my own wheels with no regrets. They are alloy with built in thread lock, so they are light, they stay put, and the thread lock actually makes them bind less whilst building. The especially nice thing about them however, is that they have a hex socket type head on the end, so you can build them with a driver tool from the inside of the rim getting them extremely tight with no chance whatsoever of chewing or rounding any of the wrench flats, yet they can still be adjusted if necessary with a traditional tool with the tyre and everything on at the trail side 🙂 They are quite expensive though…

As above really. And somewhere quiet, after the kids are in bed. If you go std nipples grind a screwdriver into a nipple driver. Doesn’t need to be the offset type, an old cheap screwdriver will do. It just gets the spokes to a ball park tension before the real tightening starts. And slow & steady. Have a clothes peg to hand as a quick marker if your interrupted or drop the spoke key. The WheelPro pdf book is good, starts with the basics. I’ve done a few now & all are still going strong. Did the first on a borrowed jig but just used frame & forks of late, with bit of masking tape as a guide. Keep meaning to build a jig, as per the instructions in the WheelPro book

Reading up recently I settled on this for my next wheels: 3x, DB spokes on front and non- drive rear – DB because they flex a bit in the middle and therefore makes a stronger wheel (counter intuitive but the point of spoked wheels is ability to flex) but then 2mm shorter plain spokes on rear drive side. Apparently because the rear drive side has to be upto 2x as tight on the rear due to the dish.

If you are using such good hubs I wouldnt skimp on the build – however most just use the same length DB spokes all round and they work just grand.

I built my jigs, cut a dishing tool from plywood and my jigs are old front rigid forks and scrap cracked FS rear chainstays. I use a couple of rubber bands to hold a pencil on for the guide!

Hi thanks for the advice and info, I have a jig & dishing tool so just need to try and get the techinique sorted!
Where do you guys buy spokes? Is CRC the best place to start?

Sdeals.com is cheap for good spokes.

Alloy nipples + water = seize central.

rose bikes is cheaper than crc for dt comps:

http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/products/bike-parts/

I’d love o give a go at building a set of wheels, but the price of the jig and dishing tool kinda put me of. What do you people use?

I use a frame upside down with a cable tie on the seat stay. I don’t have a mech on that frame so I can just flip the wheel around easily enough to test dish. Vertical true works by the same logic by just ensuring the cable tie is positioned right at the very edge of the rim.

Yup, I use a bike.

That’s interesting and encouraging. I might have to give it a go.
Cheers

i made a jig from the wheelpro book. it’s awesome and has loadsa sticker space. kinda ocd, but really satisfying to use…it allows the ‘ping’ from the tension plucking to come across well.
my dish tool is made from plywood and used in conjunction with a ruler…

I use more than one spoke calculator , I then take the average spoke length.
http://www.dtswiss.com/SpokesCalc/Welcome.aspx?language=en
http://lenni.info/edd/

also make sure you have a dishing tool as this can make things more accurate when tensioning the spokes

I buy, my spokes off Ribble cycles or eBay. 144 at a time usually. Stainless DB thinks. ACI Alpina DB spokes.

Never broke one. Been all over UK and the Alps with my home built wheels on CK hubs. Properly tested.

Enjoy the built process.

3x BTW.

Spa cycles for sapim spokes which have a loyal following. Their pg spokes are ment to be the best about (from my limited knowledge!). The wheelpro book is well worth a read, it’s cheap and pays for it’s self by telling you how to make your own jig, dishing tool etc.

I also bought a second hand spoke tension meter as I just couldn’t get on with the ‘plucking’ method.

Very good wheelbuilding guide here:- http:sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

I bought my spokes from here.. http://www.billys.co.uk/english/productresults.php?dept=5015&group=U I wasn’t worried about weight of the spokes and just plumped for stainless one… 64 spokes + nipples cost me £22 posted..!!

Out of intrest, who uses a spoke tension meter ?
Are they worth it ?

Spoke tension meter helps to get the tension even all the way round
Which makes for a durable wheel.
But I do get a bit lazy and only use it with very light wheels. Things like stans
Mmx rims and some of there 29er rims which don’t like lots of tension.

I spent years building wheels that were perfectly good without one. If your only
Doing a few for yourself there a lot of money

Not worth it if you read the wheel pro book. Just “ping” ’em

Probably built 20 wheels or so, for me and mates etc, never needed a tensioner and my pals say the wheels I have built have been the best wheels they’ve ever had.

All learned from the Wheelpro book.

I’ve built many as a mechanic…inc some used by pros…never used a tension netnp, though I’m using the plucking method on my stans alphas, you can work out the tension, I don’t have the link to hand.

Tbh don’t think I would have bothered to get one. But a shop nr me closed and the price was right

I tried with the ‘plucking’ method but the first wheel I built the spokes came loose. I couldn’t tell much of a difference between the tones when plucking the spokes. But my hearings not great from years of working with loud machinery.

If your a newbie to building wheels how do you know the differnce between 90kg spoke tension and 130kg? Buying a spoke tension meter (which I got from here at a good price) tells you that and imo your more likely to get even spoke tension.

Snowflake for the Win!!!

…except for the wonky valve

Seeing that snowflake wheel takes me back. Anyone got advice for building one

LOL @ ragga

How much for a tension meter, something I’d like to try one day but think I’d need to use a meter as I’m tone deaf too 🙂

About £50 for a basic Park one, according to Google.

orange-boy…my advice…don’t bother!

i did one, can’t remember how, tho it wasn’t difficult.