The streetlights tell you “built up area” (hence national speed limit of 30mph)

The presence of streetlights is an indication only as they are generally installed in areas where there are pedestrians and thus where you should expect the speed limit to be relatively low. They do not define what the speed limit is the signs do that.

If you are still convinced that that the sign that shows the National Speed Limit can indicate a limit of 30 mph the please show a link. N.B. your gov.uk link categorically does NOT do this.

Alternatively you could actually contact the course organisers for clarification.

stilltortoise – Member

et voilá

That’s a 40 limit going into an NSL, so 60mph for a car as it is a single carriageway road.
There are repeaters to remind you that it is an NSL road.

Further on you can see a side road that is a 30 limit:
30 limit

Notice the two big **** off signs with 30 on them?

20,30,40,50 are other common speed limits

Can you list some more please.

If the presence of street lights indicates a built-up area, and the national speed limit for a built up area is 30mph, why is the speed limit 60mph here?

Here, he’s right though – that A53 is confusing. So at the point he’s linked it’s a 60, but it goes past houses and pubs without any further signage. Then you pass “The Wheel” and there’s a 40 sign. Before that there’s a junction and a zebra crossing. I can’t say for sure that it’s a 60 all the way down there!

et voilá

That’s quite clearly a road going from 40mph to NSL which for a car on a single carriageway road is 60mph. If you think this is anything else then you are incorrect.

@DezB give over , I am highlighting to the fact 30 is not a NSL

30 in a built up area in law is a ‘restricted road’
Maybe the op would like to read
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Built-up_area_(Highway_Code)

These built up urban area street lights must be within 200 yards( or 183 metres)
Apart

Here, he’s right though – that A53 is confusing. So at the point he’s linked it’s a 60, but it goes past houses and pubs without any further signage. Then you pass “The Wheel” and there’s a 40 sign. Before that there’s a junction and a zebra crossing. I can’t say for sure that it’s a 60 all the way down there!

No, its 60 (if youre in a car) all the way down to the 40 gateway signs.

I am highlighting to the fact 30 is not a NSL

That’s not what the Highway Code says.

Further on you can see a side road that is a 30 limit:
30 limit

Thanks sbob, that’s actually a really sensible observation to address any ambiguity over whether it’s a 30mph limit on the main carriageway.

No, its 60 (if youre in a car) all the way down to the 40 gateway signs.

No? What’s ‘no’ for?
But passing houses and approaching a zebra crossing with a 60mph limit?

(The 30 signs sbob linked to are on the Denford Road, off the A53)

I had this on a SAC too. It’s misleading at best.

Entering a built-up area, you’ll pass a large 30mph sign which defines the limit. You will then have either regular repeater signs or there will be street lighting present. The street lighting acts as a reminder and negates the need for extra signage, it does not in and of itself define the limit, that was done by the last sign you passed.

With an NSL area, the opposite is true. You will have repeater signs if there is street lighting present. Again, the absence of lighting would mean that repeater signs were unnecessary.

I was taught this on my test. It was framed as a handy tip “if you’re ever driving along and aren’t sure of the limit, and there’s no repeaters, look for street lights.”

The limit for the road you’re on is defined by the last fill-sized limit sign that you passed. That’s it. And unless your car arrived here by teleporter you will always have passed a sign.

40mph for HGVs on single carriageways in Scotland.

Except on the A9 between Perth and Inverness where it is 50mph (as of October 2014)

I hate to tell you, but the speed limit there is 40, because of
https://goo.gl/maps/owXMrwvjBG32 (amongst numerous other possibilities, that’s just the closest when travelling in that direction) though if you’re travelling along the main road also because of https://goo.gl/maps/Zbh7paPbJLL2 . The speed limit here is 60 (in a vehicle which isn’t otherwise restricted to a lower speed for the pedants) because of the signs you’ve just passed.

Incidentally if you’re being observant at this point you can tell that you’re in a 40 or 50 limit https://goo.gl/maps/8ducqqSSfao

I tend to agree with Drac though
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/whats-your-understanding-of-the-national-speed-limit-in-the-uk#post-8972152 – surely they explained this on the course?

et voilá

If the presence of street lights indicates a built-up area, and the national speed limit for a built up area is 30mph, why is the speed limit 60mph here?

Clearly a built-up area, look at all those houses and factories.

There are lights down one side of the road. By this logic it’s 30mph in the direction you’re looking and 60mph coming the other way.

Ideally there probably should be NSL repeaters on those lights. I’d chalk that one down to poor signage / town planning, either that or it’s deemed unnecessary because there’s no lights on the other side.

But passing houses and approaching a zebra crossing with a 60mph limit?

The crossing is in a 40mph zone. All the signage is present and correct.

I hate to tell you, but the speed limit there is 40

At the point the photo was taken, yes. The 30mph and 40mph zones are clear. I was referring to the point from the NSL sign. Apologies for the confusion.

There are lights down one side of the road. By this logic it’s 30mph in the direction you’re looking and 60mph coming the other way.

Ideally there probably should be NSL repeaters on those lights. I’d chalk that one down to poor signage

I’d agree, but ever road I’ve seen like that would have 30 (or 40) signs where it passes houses. Very poorly signed road. Further back, where aracer linked, there are plenty of signs (and cameras!).

The crossing is in a 40mph zone. All the signage is present and correct.

Oh, musta missed it with my Google streetview “driving”… Take back what I said then!

Clearly a built-up area, look at all those houses and factories.

Interestingly, the instructors on the speed awareness course drilled it home to *not* rely on the presence (or lack of) houses and factories as an indicator of being a built-up area.

There are NSL repeater signs on that section.

oh and if you continue down that road they remind you that you’re in a NSL (ie not a 30 restricted road for the avoidance of doubt, because as pointed out numerous times such a sign indicates that the road is not a 30 restricted road) https://goo.gl/maps/WjvxvRSp35S2

surely they explained this on the course?

They did but he didn’t understand it luckily the course isn’t pass or fail.

So I’ve covered that too – the road from there is NSL (ie not 30 restricted) because of the NSL gateway sign and repeater signs (I’m just assuming there is more than one, CBA streetviewing down the road to check for another).

There seems to be one repeater in that 40 section, which I presume is sufficient according to the law – and they tend not to put out more than required. Though I note there are also several other points along there where the observant can tell it’s not a 30 limit (I linked to one). (yeah I get you took back your comments, but it’s worth making the point for the 40 section – the NSL section doesn’t have houses so it’s only the lights which would make you think it anything else, but the repeaters override that).

There are NSL repeater signs on that section.

Ah, I must’ve missed them, ta. There you go then.

They did but he didn’t understand it luckily the course isn’t pass or fail.

TBF, if it was anything like the course I did, this bit wasn’t explained terribly well. I’m not surprised the OP left confused.

Anyway. Aside from the national speed limit in built-up areas being 30 and whether or not street lights of a particular but seemingly undefined height and spacing defines whether it’s a built-up area or not: The NSL sign is posted on single- and dual-carriageways and means a 60/70 limit for cars. It will never mean “the NSL applies to this built-up area you’re about to enter” simply because they’d use a (30) sign for that instead.

TL;DR – no way does (/) mean (30), ever.

No? What’s ‘no’ for?

Sorry if it read as a curt reply, but it was short for, “no it isn’t confusing”

</thread>

The conclusion I’m drawing is that I ‘ll take the bus instead shouldn’t have been doing an indicated >60mph in a signed 50mph zone

😉

drive as fast as you can and try not to get caught?

Highways authorities are not allowed to place repeater signs in 30mph zones. The presence of any repeater signs is a great clue that the limit is not 30mph.

I did not know that until today (or if I did, I’d long since forgotten)

Highways authorities are not allowed to place repeater signs in 30mph zones.

… unless there’s no street lighting.

(Is that actually true? Source?)

stilltortoise – Member

Highways authorities are not allowed to place repeater signs in 30mph zones. The presence of any repeater signs is a great clue that the limit is not 30mph.

I did not know that until today (or if I did, I’d long since forgotten)

Oh FFS.

As you have already been told in this very thread, 30 repeaters do exist in areas without a system of street lighting.

Stay off the roads, keep under the bridge.

30 repeaters

Indeed. I explained all this yesterday.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/whats-your-understanding-of-the-national-speed-limit-in-the-uk/page/4#post-8972853

You do seem to be determined to be confused. It’s really quite straight forward, despite the SAC guys helpfully muddying it for you.

Cougar – Moderator

Indeed. I explained all this yesterday.

Back of the queue, I was there on page 1. 😛

Yeah, but I did it betterer. (-:

It was a slightly different point, well written.
I’ve given myself bonus points for covering the road painted New Forest signs though.
Plus as I no longer drive, my driving is beyond criticism so I hereby claim the title of STW’s one true driving God.

The irony of the situation suits this place well.

(Is that actually true? Source?)

Source was the Technical Support Officer from Staffordshire Safer Roads Partnership.

Indeed. I explained all this yesterday.

Sorry Cougar 😆 I appreciate your frustration. Yours was the best explanation that I now see correlates with “the truth”.

For all those raging at your keyboards at my apparent stupidity, bear in mind from my perspective you’re strangers on the internet with opinions. Some of those opinions correlate with fact, some don’t. I came here to gauge whether other drivers have been tripped up by misunderstanding of advice given on speed awareness courses. Some of you admitted that it wasn’t well explained on your SAC either. I feel reassured that it’s not just me.

Wish I’d not bothered saying anything now 😥 😆

</waits for “me too” comments>

Source was the Technical Support Officer from Staffordshire Safer Roads Partnership.

What did they tell you about the special rules in the New Forest?

I came here to gauge whether other drivers have been tripped up by misunderstanding of advice given on speed awareness courses.

No.
As the one true driving God, I have never been caught speeding broken the speed limit. 🙂

Source was the Technical Support Officer from Staffordshire Safer Roads Partnership.

… who was demonstrably wrong. (-:

Link from Staffs Safer Roads Partnership:
http://www.staffssaferroads.co.uk/media/13881/speedknowyourlimits.pdf

There are a number of unlit roads
where a 30 mph speed limit applies.
In these circumstances the traffic
authority must place 30 mph
repeater signs.

Buuuumpp!

I’ve got a speed awareness course tomorrow! Yippee! I just read through this thread to find out what sort of things to expect and it seems like idiots like what myself is will be the order of the day. Goodie.

Please note, I think I was innocent* of any crime, m’lud. But, however, I did go above the speed limit by a bit. There are many factors which make it annoying that this happened, but I won’t go into them. I’ll just take my “punishment” or is it “training”? like a man. 😀

.

*not really