The NSL sign will not indicate a 30mph limit, the lack of one with the other factors will. If you have the other factors and no sign limit then it’s 30mph, if it’s a NSL sign then it’s whatever the road tells you.

By the OP’s logic the sign he refers to means 30mph on the M’ways as they regularly post it up on the matrix on the M42, M4, M6, M6 Toll, M25….
All of which have lots of streetlights….

The other point is that the speed limit for different vehicles is different depending on the road so the NSL sign is used to indicate the maximum permitted speed for the vehicle type on that road. Where there is a 30/40/50 sign, that’s the max speed for any vehicle on that road (if the vehicle is allowed to go that fast). If the sign had to show the speed limit for all vehicle types it would be massive!

That’s another anomaly. I’ve seen roads with a signposted speed limit of 60mph. If you were driving an HGV…….

By the OP’s logic the sign he refers to means 30mph on the M’ways as they regularly post it up on the matrix on the M42, M4, M6, M6 Toll, M25….
All of which have lots of streetlights….

Well no, because the motorway regulations over-rule. Everyone knows that, don’t they? 🙂

Until the speed awareness course I was right there with most of you on this thread, taking the NSL sign to mean 60mph limit (edit – in a car on a single carriageway) unless signs indicate otherwise. My confusion and exasperation is coming from the advice we received on the speed awareness course.

What I’m taking away from this thread is that the instructors on the speed awareness course have done a bad job on this topic.

Remember the national speed limit also depends on the weather conditions.

Anyone mentioned gateway signs yet?

I’ve seen roads with a signposted speed limit of 60mph. If you were driving an HGV…….

…can be signposted as higher (see A9)

another speed limit thread, so soon?

Yeah but this one will be a classic.

Remember the national speed limit also depends on the weather conditions.

It might do in France but not in UK.

All of which have lots of streetlights

They’re not street lights.

scotroutes – Member

That’s another anomaly. I’ve seen roads with a signposted speed limit of 60mph. If you were driving an HGV…….

HGVs can do 60mph.

What’s your understanding of the National Speed Limit in the UK?

My understanding is that the NSL applies unless their is a restriction in place, that a restriction will be indicated either by signs or the presence of streetlights no more than 200yds apart for a 30, and where there are streetlights but the road is not restricted to 30 there will be signs indicating this.

NSL sign indicates 60mph (for cars) generally observed after leaving a speed limited (30mph, 40mph, etc) area. Near where I live there is a streetlit road with no houses on it and NSL signs, so the speed limit is 60mph (for cars). But lots of people drive at 40 for some reason, so the uncertainty is probably quite widespread (or the world is full of dawdlers).
Don’t forget the new 20mph speed limits in lots of built up areas which are also signed. And if you ever go into MOD areas (serviceman’s housing areas etc, to the best of my recollection the (signed) speed limits are 15mph.

How fast can I go if I’m driving to pick up a crown race, or do they just come with the headset?

Really quite simple:
The NSL is the National Speed Limit, not National Speed Limits Therefore, it can only be one number which is 60 and is what the sign signifies

(Ignoring the caveats for different vehicle types)

For everywhere else the state informs you with the use of signs with permitted maximum speed (generally) 🙂

sbob – Member
scotroutes – Member
That’s another anomaly. I’ve seen roads with a signposted speed limit of 60mph. If you were driving an HGV…….

HGVs can do 60mph.

Do you mean that they are capable of doing 60 or allowed to do 60?

The NSL is the National Speed Limit, not National Speed Limits Therefore, it can only be one number which is 60 and is what the sign signifies

Or 70

It might do in France but not in UK.

Just France?

Really quite simple:
The NSL is the National Speed Limit, not National Speed Limits Therefore, it can only be one Therefore National number which is 60/70 Nationally and is what the sign signifies unless there are street lightings, not National Street Lightings, but street lighting nationally indicating a 60/70 National 30 limit.
Got it?

Do you mean that they are capable of doing 60 or allowed to do 60?

Strictly speaking both, but then you know the rules and you’ll know that an HGV limited to 56mph will still be able to do 60mph downhill and still have a 60mph speed limit (English dual carriageway).

Ah, interesting – 50 up here for the big ones on DC’s.

but then you know the rules

I didn’t actually, not that one at least 😀

(Ignoring the caveats for different vehicle types)

And different road types?

Glad I put in the English bit then, for some reason I was under the impression that you were south of the border.

Used to be, took a wrong turn on the M6 ten years ago…

And different road types?

Of course, I left that out to create more rage within the thread for those that didn’t think that a motrorway or dual carriageway would be treated differently 😀

Have we got to the point where it is revealed that at least one person on the thread is confused by what “dual carriageway” means and has spent decades doing 70 on all two lane roads with NSLs wondering why everyone else is going so slow?

That’s always my favourite bit. 😀

I agree that the NSL sign indicates a speed limit of 60/70 mph for cars, however can see where the OP is coming from, the below are both from the gov.uk website:

1: This confirms that the NSL sign indicates that ‘The national speed limit for the type of road and class of traffic applies’:

2: However this states that the NSL in a built up area is 30mph:

can see where the OP is coming from

Well that’s two of you now, so I’m making some progress 😆 Thanks

Q594: What is the national speed limit?

That’s what the police have to say on the matter, anyway.

Internally I seem to consider the NSL sign to be a “derestriction” sign. Possibly that’s how it used to be used, long ago before speed limits were imposed on all roads, and I’ve picked it up from someone older than me. So it means something along the lines of “no previous speed limit applies, the limit is the maximum for this road type and your vehicle”. With a car that means 60mph, or 70mph if the road is a dual carriageway with a central reservation.

2: However this states that the NSL in a built up area is 30mph:

that is very ambiguously worded IMO, looking at the rest of that page I can only assume they’re using the words “national speed limits” as a counter point to “locally set speed limits” rather than meaning National Speed Limit. That is all I can think of. The speed limit is NEVER 30 when there’s an NSL sign.

Have you a google maps link to this road, it can be viewed in Street view.

The distance between the street lights is a factor, not just the fact that street lights exist.

And if you’re on a motorbike, all bets are off.

The distance between the street lights is a factor, not just the fact that street lights exist.

Yes but it doesn’t override signage. If there’s street lights & no repeaters, it’s a 30 (because the distance between the lights will be 200 yards or less). If there are repeaters, it’s whatever the signage says. They don’t expect drivers to get out and measure the distance with a trundle wheel just to figure out what the speed limit is 😆

if a speed limit is in force, apart from 30mph in ‘built up areas’, or NSL, it should be signed.
So my questions;
40mph haS A 40MPH SIGN. these should be EVERY 400metres? 1/4 mile?
If there is a sign missing or obscured can you still get done?

On a dual carriageway in a built up area, is the limit still 30mph unless signed otherwise?

And why do (some) roundabouts have 60mph/NSL signs just before them?

shifter – Member

And if you’re on a motorbike, all bets are off.

No Speed Limit. 😀

40mph haS A 40MPH SIGN. these should be EVERY 400metres? 1/4 mile?

500m on the same side or 350m on alternate signs AFAIK. (The gap is larger where the limits are higher)

If there is a sign missing or obscured can you still get done?

Depends how good your solicitor is, it gives you an “out” but you’ve still had to go through the main speed limit sign 🙂

And why do (some) roundabouts have 60mph/NSL signs just before them?

because the other roads coming off the roundabout will have a different (faster) speed limit than the one you’re on

Did my course just before chrimbo so it’s pretty fresh still 😆

Having street lights is not the only marker of a street being a built up area.

My understanding following my speed awareness course is that the NSL sign (black diagonal) does indicate the National Speed Limit which is 60mph for cars. In a built up area the National Speed Limit drops to 30mph BUT there should be a 30 mph sign to denote this zone i.e. number 30 inside a red ring.

The reason you need a speed limit sign in a reduced NSL zone is to avoid the type of ambiguity and confusion that is reigning on this thread. Again, some roads that are not in built up areas may have street lights and visa versa.

At the end of the day the signs rule. You are only told about the street light thing on the speed awareness course to make you aware of certain visual cue’s to help you see in advance when a speed limit change is coming so you can look ahead and make better decisions. But ultimately the signs rule and a black diagonal sign means 60mph for a car. Other wise why would you need any other speed sign at all? All signs would just be the black diagonal and leave it upto drivers to decide what the speed limit was based upon there being street lights or not.

If there is a sign missing or obscured can you still get done?

If there was a sign missing or obscured would you speed?

On a dual carriageway in a built up area, is the limit still 30mph unless signed otherwise?

There are always signs at the start of the limit.

And why do (some) roundabouts have 60mph/NSL signs just before them?

To indicate a change in speed limit. 😆

You may have different speed limits on the roads leading to a roundabout so it is common to have a change of limit so they are harmonized on the roundabout itself.

NSL is either 50, 60, or 70 depending on the type of road and what you’re driving. If you’re not in a NSL area, you will have passed a sign that says 20,30,40,50 or 60. Perfectly simple and nothing to do with street lights.

Now prove me wrong….