The arguing is not about attention seeking, of course it’s not.

When engaged in an argument it’s usually due to one of two things:

a) being misconstrued really pisses some people off and
b) if you have considered something and you feel you have a valid point, you want it properly acknowledged and your intellect respected.

I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind when I argue, that’d be ridiculous – at least when it’s an academic point. I just want my input acknowledged and either taken into account or rejected for real reasons.

allright, not posturing maybe, but there’s definitely an attention-seeker thing to a lot of those threads, once they reach a certain point. People like attention and to be listened to, some more than others. are you, like, disagreeing with me? 😉

People like attention and to be listened to, some more than others

Yes. Also, the ‘alpha male’ thing as mentioned in the tags is worthy of consideration. There’s definitely that going on every single day on here. But then, surely some people simply are ‘leaders’, and others content to be led? Indeed, some comments on here, plus the tags, suggests a frustration in some that they can’t themselves be someone with more ‘status’. This applies in the ‘real world’ too; I’ve seen power-struggles in the workplace that make this forum look pretty tame. Yes, it’s about jostling for position, vying for attention. Why go on a forum if you don’t want attention?

There’s also the odd forum member who likes to come on just to stir up trouble, gain some sort of notoriety; feed off the negative responses from others. One or two of those I think are quite disturbing, and I suspect have issues they could benefit from addressing.

the ‘alpha male’ thing

Okay, I’ll assume the role of the shrink for this thread (clearly gaining alpha status in the process) and ask ‘why’? What is lacking in your life outside the forum that drives a need to proove alpha status on here?

Where do you sit in your organisations professionally?
And how do you feel towards your superiors at work?
Have you ever been accused of being too controlling in your personal life?

Good question, Yeti…

I don’t separate the forum from any other area where I feel the need to win. I’ve always been quite competitive, yet strangely not compelled towards competitive sports really other than footy. I like the odd little race against mates on a bike, but I’m not quite so bothered if I don’t win there. it’s the more intellectual challenges I relish.

Maybe some people are just naturally more driven to ‘need’ to win than others. But in different areas as well.

It’s an interesting question that. I’ll have to go away and ponder that one….

I dare say somebody’s feeling a winner for posting some of those tags. Well done, you must feel ever so proud of yourself! 😆

The couch is always open Elfin. First session is free. I feel you’re making great progress already, many multiples of hours therapy later and I’m sure we’ll have you all fixed up and as good as new.

To anyone who is too unsure about their opinion to resort to tagging… I’m running a discounted 5 week nightly session on assertiveness in the SingleTrackWorld, I’ll have you ranting in the most incoherent, within post, manner in no time… or your money back.

molgrips – Member

The arguing is not about attention seeking, of course it’s not.

When engaged in an argument it’s usually due to one of two things:

a) being misconstrued really pisses some people off and
b) if you have considered something and you feel you have a valid point, you want it properly acknowledged and your intellect respected.

I have to say that is a spot on post. I would agree with both of these points.

For me its far more that than either a need to win or any sort of alpha male thing.

I know people think I have to win but thats not what it ia about at all to me.

people are here for different reasons but nobody knows each other’s, this is why difficulties arise

.

I’d imagine masturbating with a cheesegrater isn’t even slightly amusing. Arguing with one on the other hand…

The couch is always open

I would ask you to tell me about my mother, but it might scar me.

People argue for three main reasons:-

1. They’re trolling
2. They’re stupid
3. They don’t realise they’re stupid

Personally – I fall into all three at times. I rarely say anything that I totally mean (unless it is actually bike related).

Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality…….

We argue cos we can. It’s as simple as that.

…so this is the bit where everyone should let it lie….
My money is on TJ or Elfin to post a big long thought out bit next….

ready?..

I’m too tired and I’m going to bed.

But I dare say I’ll think of something tomorrow.

I think TJ has been pretty open and honest actually. I don’t believe him when he say’s it’s not about winning though. 😉

ahh, you were gonna type a big long bit, you were! go on go on go on!

All you need to do now is accept that you are going to change nobodies opinion by arguing about it on an internet forum.

utterly wrong! I’ve had my opinion about several things changed as a result of our arguments, and I cannot be unique. If everyone’s positions were thoroughly entrenched there’d be no point arguing 🙂

*muffled noises off-stage*

I agree with you SFB, I’ve come to learn a few things just by reading some threads. I don’t see why ideas or opinions can’t be mobile and changeable. It’s what makes this site interesting.

+1 it can be really rather amusing sometimes… but as a rule its only funny when its obvious to everyone else that someone is trolling another and succeeding in winding them up, watching 2 people argue when they genuinely believe what they’re typing is boring.

However as I alluded to above its recognising that I have made my point and walking away I find hard – but I am working on this

very reflective TJ, gibbs would be proud 🙂 +10 internetz for you sir.

I disagree

LOL

SKILZ

😆 first chuckle of the morning, good work 😀

If I continue to be antagonistic towards others, then the potential for happy, positive relationships could be reduced.

very reflective… so why continue to do so? i’m going to be honest here and i hope you dont take too much offence buddy: you can be a really funny guy on this forum, very perceptive at times and seem like you’d be a fun guy to hang around with… but then sometimes you wade into a thread and destroy any fun by appearing to be (intentionally or not) incredibly condescending and a real buzz killington. its a shame because, as the tags on this thread might suggest.. people tend to end up only perceiving you in the negative light as that sticks in minds for longer than the fun stuff.

I find it is often the most (apparently) intelligent people that flatly refuse to listen to another person’s point of view or ever accept they might actually be wrong.

😀 excellent post, i might suggest a small alteration (as the most intelligent person on here i feel confident that i’m 1billion percent correct) people who think they’re intelligent will refuse to listen to another person’s point of view or ever accept they might actually be wrong… people who know they’re super awesome just keep quiet or troll the hell out of the smaller minds 😀 (its a bit like having a large penis… those with, keep quiet, sit back and smile. Those without will go on and on and on about how big it is, then get angry when challenged.

in the end:

The greatest lesson is you can’t win an argument.

Also some people just don’t care

now who wants to fight?!

I think a good chin-to-chin argument is good for the soul, it can clear the air, pass the time or provide merryment. I’ve had the odd ‘discussion’ where I’ve been giggling away like a teenage girl becasue I’ve thought it funny, whilst (it seems) the other person(s) are getting all hysterical and popping corks right left and centre. In reality, I hope they’re laughing about it too. 🙂

I’ve met sooooooo mant people off here I’ve lost count and 99.9% of the time they’re nothing like their internet persona and are really great people in one way or another

The one thing that does baffle me is when people won’t let something lie: Sometimes I just shut a thread down and never ever read it again, or I’ve forgotten all about the insults etc by the next day. But there are those who seem to bear grudges for a very long time….

I like trying to be eloquent and succint.. cos in the real world I am a bumbling.. introverted.. barely coherent.. coarse and vulgar bumpkin.. and I’ll also walk away long before any confrontation.. so..
here I get to exercise some bits of me brain that are usually kept in the attic..

TJ and my prescription next time it kicks off:

PP – sometimes I am incapable of not re-opening the thread.

Imagine the scene. I’m sat at work bored of my bonce. Read BBC, done facebook, finger hovering over the STW bookmark… must resist.. but the minutes and hours tick by… someone may have replied.. they might be misunderstanding the point.. just a quick check, I won’t reply I’ll just read..

The odd argument use to be amusing but nearly every thread turns into an argument now usually by the same group.

I just find it all pretty boring now.

I know people think I have to win but thats not what it ia about at all to me.

Thou doth protest too much!

On a serious note I like a good argument like many on here.

My rule is always argue/debate as if you were standing next to the person you are arguing with. I have adhered to this at all times including the idiot (arsenal backwards)
I honestly cant recall a time when I have posted something I would not have said in person.

Surfer – it honestly is not. I really do not see it as a win / lose thing at all. Thats just not how I work.

I think that a lot of what goes on here is not arguing or fighting so much as sophistry. Some people (myself included) enjoy the chance to bounce our ideas and opinions off other similarly inclined people.

If I were to be so opinionated and tenacious in my debating at home, the Mrs and I would be falling out all the time. You are my angst sink. You are my rant buffer.

I often think of this tune when I am waffling away on here and I think most people take it with a similar level of humorous indulgence, despite the odd moment of sheer frustration or rage.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBt7-rxddpk[/video]

EDIT:

Thats just not how I work.

[Pantomime]Oh yes it is![/Pantomime]

😆

This site provides a valuable social function. For example: I’m particularly glad when people pick me on my bad grammar. If only my teachers had been so thorough. 🙁

In fact: I’m thinking of making my 6 year old submit her homework to the forum before handing it in. That should teach her to spell properly and pay attention to correct use of apostrophe’s

I think its definitely an alpha male/insecurity think, no matter how anyone dresses it up. Unless its a wind up.

Binners – also the correct use full stops at the end of sentences?

😉

I’m afraid both my grammar and spelling are absolutely appalling fella. I have a theory I’ve developed over the years about why I (along with all graphic designers I’ve ever met) can’t spell.

But when recounting it I tend to bore myself to tears, so I won’t inflict it on the rest of the world

I think its definitely an alpha male/insecurity think, no matter how anyone dresses it up.

But with so little to gain? It is very rare that anyone concedes defeat, the act of arguing attracts as much negative feedback as the act of being wrong and in the unlikely event that one does ‘win’ the rewards for it may be a single concessionary post which will be forgotten in moments.

I agree that it is in part a pecking order thing but I reckon that in an innately argumentative place like STW, the one way to gain acceptance is to give as good as one gets. Maybe it is not about besting your rivals so much as being accepted by them?

apostrophe’s

You used the word in a plural manner, not a possessive one, so the correct punctuation is apostrophes.

Please accept my apologies if it was a deliberate attempt at humour.

🙂

grand idea binners. i’ve a pile of first certificate compostions here need correcting. anyone?

Terminals that makes sense but the argumentative types don’t see it- its an emotional reaction for them and they lack the distance/rationality.

You may be right clinic-al. 😉

I AM RIGHT 😡

I think its definitely an alpha male/insecurity think, no matter how anyone dresses it up

Eventually the alpha male gets old & ripped to shreds by the younger blood though doesn’t it? Or creeps off to die in a quiet corner in a pile of shit & pool of piss…..

This is one of the aspects that really annoys me. it is not a dominance game to me, it is not

an alpha male/insecurity think, no matter how anyone dresses it up.

That is not my motivation at all. I know it is for some and I know people do not understand this. But why can people not accept what I say?

What molgrips said is far closer to the point for me.

When engaged in an argument it’s usually due to one of two things:

a) being misconstrued really pisses some people off and
b) if you have considered something and you feel you have a valid point, you want it properly acknowledged and your intellect respected.

Now clearly for some it is dominance games – but there are some folk on here who lack the ability to understand that some folk work differently and thus as they don’t understand the difference they don’t believe it is there.
Edit – I have no desire to dominate, I want to be heard and understood.

The only time I’ll argue is when someone is being a c0ck.
And the only 2 things that annoy me enough to think someone is a c0ck is
1. Responses which suggest the thread shouldn’t have been started eg. yawn, wgaf, etc. (Leave the thread blank if that’s what you think.)
2. Overly politically correct responses. Are you really like that in real life!!?

Otherwise its all a bit pointless arguing with people who are not going to change their minds (eg. TJ on helmets). And this is just something to distract myself from work/tv.

Hence my t-shirt