I’ve got a gap between contracts, so I’m looking at 3 weeks off.

Anyone know if I can go bikepacking to Wales/Scotland as long as I “stay alert”? I read the news regularly, but honestly have no idea what’s actually going on atm. I rebooked cancelled flights from April, but they’ve been cancelled again. I note that non-essential shops are opening soon, so presumably no one’s going to give a **** if I’m camping out in the middle of nowhere and only mix with people at a shop every couple of days like I have to anyway?

Guidelines

As before, you cannot:

• stay away from your home or your support bubble household overnight – including holidays – except for in a limited set of circumstances, such as for work purposes

In a word, no. Except maybe Durham..

No chance in Wales, it’s shut, local travel and 5 miles only and Police actively patrolling places like Snowdonia.

so presumably no one’s going to give a **** if I’m camping out in the middle of nowhere and only mix with people at a shop every couple of days like I have to anyway?

people who live in the middle of nowhere very much give a shit

Lake District National Park is actively “Engaging” with folks who may be considering camping out in remote spots and “encouraging “ them not to do so,
If the engagement and encouragement fails then the police are issuing fines.

Take a look at
Safer Lakes

Plenty of info available .

If the Peak is anything to go by there were plenty in van’s and tents in the Ladybower area when we arrived just before 6 this morning. Some still hadn’t stired when we were leaving at 9. Even the Ladybower inn had a camper and a tent in the carpark.
Quite a bit of litter and bottles strewn around some of them.

And just in case the answers for England and Wales have left you thinking Scotland is an option – the Scottish Government guidance is very much a no! There is a 5 mile limit on travel here too. That *might* get relaxed at the end of this week – but it will not be a green light for overnight trips. It sounds like that might be permitted here after Mid-July.

I note that non-essential shops are opening soon, so presumably no one’s going to give a **** if I’m camping out in the middle of nowhere and only mix with people at a shop every couple of days like I have to anyway?,

You will be very unwelcome in most rural areas (I’m not actually sure the attitudes in rural communities are good) because you are potentially bringing the virus to areas where it currently is not, increasing footfall in rural shops (who may be least equipped for social distancing) in places where the populations are often relatively elderly, and shops have few staff if one does fall sick. Even if you could bikepack without needing supplies you will still not be welcome – people have a real fear of the virus (the level of fear may be disproportionate but it is real) and health services in rural areas are poorly equipped to cope.

The Scottish and Welsh governments will be closely watching the population wide experiment that is going on in England and noting that R is concerningly close to 1, and possibly even above 1 in some areas whilst its lower in Scotland, and that the positive test rate in England is roughly double per capita south v’s north of the border, and I’m sure the last thing they will want to do is encourage an influx of tourists from the south.

I’m still astonished this question keeps coming up. The answer hasn’t changed since March.

For the Loch Lomond & Trossachs, roads are closed to non-local traffic and a large number of fines were issued to lochside campers.

I have leave booked and will be exploring the local (on my doorstep) hills. Can’t wait 🙂

So basically, from Monday, one can go into densely populated urban areas to buy a new pair of shoes but cannot camp on a remote hilltop, but one can cycle there without limit, so long as they drive to and fro.

So basically, from Monday, one can go into densely populated urban areas to buy a new pair of shoes but cannot camp on a remote hilltop, but one can cycle there without limit, so long as they drive to and fro.

It makes perfect sense doesn’t it. I wonder if you’re allowed to camp outside Primark tonight in a Boxing Day Sale style queue? I’m sure there’ll be a few at least considering it. Our local shopping centre (Meadowhall in Sheffield) opens tomorrow, limiting capacity to around 6,000 at any one time. Last place I’d want to be.

Three weeks off work? Finish PornHub obvs.

people who live in the middle of nowhere very much give a shit about people turning up on their doorstep and having a shit

Slight amendment to more accurately reflect what is going on, and not just in the middle of nowhere. There have been major issues around where I live, particularly Lacock and Castle Combe, where visitors, finding there are no public loos open, or pubs for that matter, are just taking a dump by the side of footpaths, leaving fresh turds and tissue paper by the paths.

So basically, from Monday, one can go into densely populated urban areas to buy a new pair of shoes but cannot camp on a remote hilltop, but one can cycle there without limit, so long as they drive to and fro.

By repeatedly questioning the right of access at this time you are clearly part of the problem!
Just what part of NO is it that you’re struggling to understand?

I’m with the op on this one. There is no rhyme nor reason, let alone logic to the current rules, even less so after tomorrow. Even in wales I have friends who are riding way more than 5 miles from home with impunity. I know those are the current rules but they are utterly pointless, how the government expects anyone to take them seriously is a mystery to me given their complete lack of rationale

Just what part of NO is it that you’re struggling to understand?

It needs to go beyond simply saying ‘NO’ – things have to make sense and seem rational – few of us adhere to daft regulations. But that’s a failing of our Government, rather than of the topic of where to go cycling, so I’ll leave it to the dedicated thread.

Even in wales I have friends who are riding way more than 5 miles from home with impunity.

Probably an issue of enforcement and limited Police resources rather than political will

so to sum up, congratulations that you have been working/paid recently and i hope you can find a way to relax while you take some leave, but no, you cant go anywhere. sit in your house and experience how the other half have been living for the last three months… or nip out to primark tomorrow and count yourself lucky that these three weeks didnt coincide with fuller lockdown of recent times

So basically, from Monday, one can go into densely populated urban areas to buy a new pair of shoes but cannot camp on a remote hilltop, but one can cycle there without limit, so long as they drive to and fro.

Well you specifically asked about Wales and Scotland. I’ve not read any detail about Wales but I understand that they are in a very similar approach to Scotland. In Scotland you can not go and buy a pair of shoes on Monday – we don’t know for sure yet when that will come (announcement expected on Thursday).

You also can’t drive to somewhere more than 5 miles from home to go for a bike ride (the bike ride can take you more than 5 miles). There is something of a logical inconsistency there but the rules aren’t about individually assessing every possibly action and impact but collectively assessing the overall effect. You asked if you could; the answer is no. And to be clear I don’t believe that is generally being perceived by the people of Scotland as a “officially no, but so long as you are fairly discreet it will be ok”. Even many people who politically are opposed to the first minister are taking no to mean no. My guess is there is about 90% compliance; perhaps even better.

If you want to understand Scotland’s position – read the guidance documents, watch the first ministers daily briefing (it’s way more coherent than anything your own government is producing). Then, compare the stats, and ask not why you can’t do the things you want to do for your pleasure or convenience but why they are further relaxing the rules.

There may be arguments why wild camping is not quite as safe as you think it is. By its nature hygiene is limited. Another reason it might not be on some special exemptions list is then suddenly every fecker would be out there ruining the countryside. So what you want is a special exemption for you, and that is not how this works (unless you are a SPAD with bad eyesight).

There’s a constant stream of stories in our local (Pembrokeshire) news about people being stopped and sent home to England or other parts of Wales with a fine.
Whether you like it or not you can’t come.
All the trails and forestry areas are closed too.

Three weeks off work? Finish PornHub obvs.

Not enough commitment there.
Two weeks at an easy pace. Week and a half if you push on.
I’d go on a tour of castle’s with eye tests on my days off.

Another reason it might not be on some special exemptions list is then suddenly every fecker would be out there ruining the countryside. So what you want is a special exemption for you, and that is not how this works (unless you are a SPAD with bad eyesight).

Wow, the OP did not suggest he should receive a special exemption, but asked for clarification on what was permissible. And why would “every **** be ruining the countryside”?

What would you do now with 3 weeks off work?

Rejoice at the quick return to paid employment… I’m looking at more like three years than three weeks.

It needs to go beyond simply saying ‘NO’ – things have to make sense and seem rational – few of us adhere to daft regulations.

Many agree with you, and we all know it’s everyone else that’s an idiot which is why we have to be subject to blanket laws and guidance.

However, a lot have adhered to these silly rules, many at great personal sacrifice, so you’ve got to chip in I’m afraid and not have a holiday a lot of people would love to have.

Wow, the OP did not suggest he should receive a special exemption, but asked for clarification on what was permissible.

He did in his first post. Quite how anyone needs to ask baffles me – but I’ll blame that on the english media, and an inability to google rather than looking for a get out clause 😉 But then he changes his position to

It needs to go beyond simply saying ‘NO’ – things have to make sense and seem rational – few of us adhere to daft regulations.

Which certainly suggests to me that he thinks his case for being able to travel (which makes sense to him) is special, and anything else is daft.

And why would “every **** be ruining the countryside”?

The great british public are itching to go on their holidays. Since Majorca and Magaluf are off the cards many would settle for a “staycation”, or even a weekend camping. Now if the answer is campsites with shared facilities are closed but wild camping is fine then I think based on what we know about the british public (if you need help forming such a generalisation google news stories from Durdle Door in the last few weeks!) then a fair proportion who have never previously considered wild camping are going to pile just as far from their car as they can be bothered carrying their case of carling and disposable BBQ. You only need to look at the devastation small numbers have caused in places like the East of Loch Lomond long before lockdown (which has resulted in restrictions to everyone else’s freedoms). Take that effect and multiple it by many times for the number of people who’s only option to stay overnight away from home would be to wild camp and you’ve got chaos (litter, fires, faeces, trees chopped down, cars parked is stupid places, abandoned tents like a music festival).

If you can justify wild camping you can easily justify second homes and mobile homes (or caravans that don’t need shared facilities). If I can justify second homes why not self catering with very thorough cleaning in between. etc. etc. Before you know it all the “well in that case…” means you are almost back to normal levels of circulation, but at a time where test-track-trace is not effective enough, the virus spread is already teetering on the edge of a second wave and theres a reasonable number of infected people still around.

Now if the answer is campsites with shared facilities are closed but wild camping is fine then I think based on what we know about the british public (if you need help forming such a generalisation google news stories from Durdle Door in the last few weeks!) then a fair proportion who have never previously considered wild camping are going to pile just as far from their car as they can be bothered carrying their case of carling and disposable BBQ.

To offer a rare dissenting opinion…………..

You’re never going to see Boris come upto the podium and announce bikepacking is allowed, for the blindingly obvious simple reason that it’s illegal in England anyway. Just as phase 5b of the lockdown (after pubs re-open) isn’t going to start with Matt Hancock announcing your local pusher is allowed to re-start the trade in E’s and Wizz.

Yes you are allowed, as long as,
a) you’re single
b) you’re staying at someones house
c) if not single then you can’t stay over, but you can still go to someones garden

To me that gives you plenty of reasons to be out and about. Just do what you’re supposed to do, avoid people, avoid honeypots, and for god sakes don’t camp where anyone can see you. Basically do exactly what you would normally whilst bikepacking.

Yes you are allowed, as long as,

a) you’re single

b) you’re staying at someones house

c) if not single then you can’t stay over, but you can still go to someones garden

So, if you are single and you can find people who will let you camp in their garden you could travel round England 🤔

So, if you are single and you can find people who will let you camp in their garden you could travel round England 🤔

Yup.

That’s the letter of the law.

So, if you are single and you can find people who will let you camp in their garden you could travel round England 🤔

Yup.

That’s the letter of the law.

Err … NO… this is what the new guidelines say

“People living alone in England will be able to stay at one other household as part of a further easing of coronavirus restrictions.”

“support bubbles must be exclusive, meaning you can’t switch the household you are in a bubble with or connect with multiple households.”

So its 1 household only

They also say unlimited exercise and avoid public transport.

Makes bike packing the obvious choice if you’re in a long distance relationship, say you live in London and your other half is in Barnard Castle and you don’t trust your eyesight enough to drive it for example.

We’re basically discussing when will it be OK to start trespassing again, don’t camp where anyone can see you, that basically makes it the same as normal times (in England).

I’ve been off for almost 2 weeks now I’ve not traveled anywhere or even considered having a holiday away from home, just because you may get away with doesn’t make it right. Have a day out somewhere, social distance exercise with friends just enjoy not being at work. It’s my wife’s birthday today so we’re going to the beach, it’ll be the first time I’ve left town other thank work since mid March.

They also say unlimited exercise and avoid public transport.

With no overnight stays away from home.

The problem with bikepacking is that many people rely on rural shops/pubs/toilets to resupply and err..unload.

I wouldn’t fundamentally be against it if you were carrying your own food and fresh water (or the means to purify it), and taking an ethical shite au naturel, and not interacting in the slightest with the local communities you pass through.

But I can’t justify it to myself right now.

But I can’t justify it to myself right now.

Depends how much you trust the government (HAHAHAHA*)

If it’s safe enough for Primark to open, is it safe enough to sleep incognito in a ditch?

*I don’t, but I’m prepared to base my own risk assessment around the same levels/criteria as theirs. If they think it’s safe enough for high streets to re-open because the levels of infection are low enough that the risk of meeting someone with it are unlikely, then I’d be happy to do something that ostensibly is a much lower risk.

Spend your time getting all those jobs done in house and garden, so that when we can do what you’re looking to do, your time is your own.

If it’s safe enough for Primark to open, is it safe enough to sleep incognito in a ditch?

I’ve long since put aside the idea that government safety advice is gold standard stuff…

To answer the OPs question, I’d sit in the garden, do some reading, cycle a lot (from home) etc.

The problem is that whilst the ‘Law is an ass’ there is some reasoning behind it. It’s easy to assume that if you can go to Primark (where 2m social distancing rules etc need to be followed) then it’s stands to reason you should be able to drive 200m to go on a little Holiday in Wales yeah? Seems much lower risk, it is, as long as hundreds of thousands of other bored people who’ve been stuck in doors since March all don’t have the same idea.

Someone mentioned Pembrokeshire, being fairly remote they were well behind the curve so when lock-down came they had very low levels of infection, if half of the Home Counties turn up to their second-home, B&B, Campsite, long drive for a walk on a quiet beach whatever than not only could there be a local spike, but everyone who came and mixed with that infected person will take it back with them.

I’m as frustrated with lock-down as anyone else, but I have to accept you can’t draft dozens of laws and exceptions for 70m people quickly, and to stop 10k people all swarming on a beach somewhere you have to stop a few dozen people who want to wild camp miles from anyone.

and to stop 10k people all swarming on a beach somewhere you have to stop a few dozen people who want to wild camp miles from anyone.

They didn’t even manage to stop that…..

I’ve long since put aside the idea that government safety advice is gold standard stuff…

^^this^^

The confused bollox coming from out great leaders seems intended to get the great unwashed mingling whilst simultaneously telling them not to mingle.

There seem to be two main groups in the population, those who receive govenment proclamations and err on the side of caution, continuing to limit contact with others and keep their movements minimal and those who are always looking for and “interpretation” or “loophole” that lets them essentially do whatever they **** fancy…

OP do whatever you bloody want now, nobody really cares anymore, go take a crap in amongst some ferns, wander round picturesque villages licking the street furniture, tombstone off a rock formation, pop down primark for some espadrilles… Just so long as you understand that if a second wave does occur, you were essentially part of the cause.

Stay indoors and educate yourself:

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p08fy0xs/the-fascinating-history-of-the-f-word?ocid=ww.social.link.facebook&fbclid=IwAR34luxE8nvHNOC2lQiQEoBPWU0CGzZTk1jwAAPbYrufCn82BY8Z8X4WEjg

I’m as frustrated with lock-down as anyone else, but I have to accept you can’t draft dozens of laws and exceptions for 70m people quickly, and to stop 10k people all swarming on a beach somewhere you have to stop a few dozen people who want to wild camp miles from anyone.

But as wild camping is illegal anyway, what specific instruction are you going to wait for?

Has anyone suggested riding all night and then sunbathing in the shade with your eyes closed during the daytime?