Brief summary…
3 and a bit years ago we had to close down our family firm and one of my customer said he would help me set up again in his premises. He would employ me as I was declared bankrupt and couldn’t operate as a business as no bank would touch me.. Initially he said he would be more than happy if we could cover all overheads and give him £5k a year clear profit as it was a better return than money in the bank.

Now I’ve easily achieved this and more (clearing approx £15k a year profit), and for the first six months of this year I’m 15% up on the same period last year. We’re not talking huge turnover (sub £90k), and I run the show on my own with no other help. I basically took my old customers and set up again with little disruption, and most of the customers are still my old ones.

The problem is my wage is pretty much the same as when I started – and I now feel like I’m being taken for a ride. To complicate things further I am under the umbrella of a bigger company which is barely breaking even (eg ABC trading as XYZ), and because of this he says he can’t pay me more as it would be unfair to the others. Now this isn’t a great incentive to pull my weight any more than I need!

I’ve also put forward ideas for capital equipment which could help bring in more trade, but these discussions start OK then he shows no interest in taking things further.

I can’t see the other side of the company making a profit any time soon (if at all!), so any rise seems very far away.

Now the moral dilemma bit! I could…
a) To get some extra money in my pocket I could easily spin-off a couple of my old customers and supply them direct (from a home business), using trade suppliers I know. I’m not talking about taking anything from work (materials etc), as there would be no need to. I don’t need to skim much off, enough to give me a few hundred more a month.
b) kick up a right stink and demand more money (could back-fire!)
c) dunno!

My MD is semi-retired and barely takes any interest in what I do as its not his area of expertise, and he has no idea how things operate, or really what I do. To compound matters I know he is sat on £xxmillion in the bank and has at least seven properties.

I know I owe him a debt for taking me on in the first place, but now it seems there is little progression, and no interest in progression.

I’d love to jump ship and go alone again, but even after three years there’s no way a bank would fund me.

I know I owe him a debt for taking me on in the first place, but now it seems there is little progression, and no interest in progression.

I’d love to jump ship and go alone again, but even after three years there’s no way a bank would fund me.So – you know you owe him a lot. You probably also know that lots of folk have lost their jobs in the past three years and many, many more are also doing without any sort of pay rise. I’d hold off and see what happens if/when the economy picks up. If the parent company starts doing well, there should be less of an issue getting you a pay rise.

Is your MD your direct boss? I’m just wondering if there is anyone else who you could speak to?
But it sounds like as long as you are lining the MD’s pockets he/she isn’t that bothered about progressing the company and your position in it. Maybe because they are semi retired they feel no need to.

I wouldn’t go with option a, could back fire. Not only would you find yourself in a position where a bank wouldn’t touch you but also a prospective employer if things go really bad.

What about looking for a new job with a company that IS interested in what you can do for them and in return you get the benefits you seek.

Sounds daft maybe but you have a decent job and from someone who has really struggled to get back to employment after being made redundant, I would be sticking with it and looking to move on when possible.

You’re employed on the terms you agreed. If it had gone the opposite way and made a loss would have taken a pay cut? You should have agreed to a profit share from the start but that’s now history.
Why don’t you speak to the MD and see about creating a subsidary with you having a none controlling interest but still able to share in the profits through dividends. This will mean you having to introduce some capital in its creation but also means that you can be on a more equal footing. Over time you can buy more shares from controlling company and a greater share of the profits.

Your MD is only helping himself. This is a greedy person thinking that the more he accumulates in wealth the better he is in spending all those money in the after world. FFS … why a semi-retired person wants all those money for when he has less needs than you? Can he spend all his millions in the afterlife?

He is a shrewd person that knew there was something in your idea/business when your business went down. So when he offered you help he was in fact also doing a long term investment for himself knowing you were caught between a rock and a hard place and could not refuse.

Talk to him honestly and tell him you need the money. Tell him you cannot go on working for peanuts and also thank him for all his help but you need more money.

By the sound of it … the offer of help is not that sincere but more of an investment.

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Why don’t you speak to the MD and see about creating a subsidary with you having a none controlling interest but still able to share in the profits through dividends.

Thanks craig – I quite like the sound of this, seems to offer benefits for both sides.

If it had gone the opposite way and made a loss would have taken a pay cut?

I was fully prepared to walk away if it went tits-up.

There is no contract of employment BTW – which I’m not sure if this is a plus or a negative!

No contract of employment means that there is nothing in writing saying that you can’t approach their clients/ your old clients if you did leave. Other than that you have statutory minimum which most most contracts are written to without the clauses.

the-muffin-man – Member

I was fully prepared to walk away if it went tits-up.

There is no contract of employment BTW – which I’m not sure if this is a plus or a negative!

I think you only walk away if there is something else waiting on the other end otherwise you will be back to square one. i.e. bankrupt. Try to pay off whatever you owe to clear your bankruptcy if possible …

No contract of employment … well so long as you have all the paper works to prove your work but again you are dealing with a shrewd person who is several steps ahead of you … no contract of employment works both ways so long as you know how to argue.

Are you sure no bank would touch you?
How many banks have you approached to date?

On the one hand you should be grateful of the position you have. On the other hand its people like you who need to expand and grow to improve the economy. When you say you owe him, is that a financial debt or moral? If moral then a well planned chat should go a long way.

I’d think seriously about setting yourself up in business; when you are allowed (from bankruptcy).

Someone else may bankroll you if your current Godfather won’t offer more.