Are we talking about recent history? Because Europe has been at war somewhere in some manner since the year dot.

Not like the Total War of the 20th Century.

Didnt Guns Germs and Steel pretty much show

The Book by Jared Diamond? hmmmm, interesting choice of source, noted for future reference.

Boys and their toys..

If the UK had no armed forces, where would we send all our unmanageable testosterone fuelled teens? And how would all those worrying adults that never grew out of their childhood action man/sas obsessions get their misanthropic kicks?
Imagine all the sociopathic military fanbois on this thread alone, if they were left to dream up insecure bloodthirsty fantasies of their own design 😯

I’m 100% certain that the greatest threat to security would come from within our own communities.

Why would anyone need to actually invade, weve theyve sold the family silver anyway.

Not like the Total War of the 20th Century.

I’m intrigued to know your parameters here.

I’m intrigued to know your parameters here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war

The Second World War was the quintessential total war of modernity.The level of national mobilization of resources on all sides of the conflict, the battlespace being contested, the scale of the armies, navies, and air forces raised through conscription, the active targeting of non-combatants (and non-combatant property), the general disregard for collateral damage, and the unrestricted aims of the belligerents marked total war on an unprecedented and unsurpassed, multicontinental scale

😆

That makes more sense.

😀

^^^Yunki has it nail on the head, the military establishment is an industry like all others, with it’s outdated ridiculous traditions and sabre rattling, we are sold the lie that those that serve are heros off on another little foriegn jolly for our benefit, in reality making the world a less safe place to live in, to keep themseves occupied and justify the massive cost of this establishment lie, it’s a total sham.

We have Austerity, cuts to social welfare, libaries are closing, people using food banks, but we must have Trident, a system that will never be used, what a croc.. death to imperialism, are you with me brothers!

Nope. History shows that the strong subdjugate and exploit the weak when given an opportunity. The machine gun, IEDs, guerilla warfare and nuclear weapons have been the great equalizer among nations during the 20th century. It is no longer as easy to occupy a country in the long term – given the proliferation of modern weapons – and thus exploit smaller nation states.

Weapons are needed because humans are about half a chromosome away from chimpanzees – we haven’t evolved in a way that allows us to put down arms. There will always be those amongst us that are willing to use violence to further their own interests.

You will be the first to be sent to march towards the front line while the machine guns guard your rear.

Well as long as my rear is being guarded I’m OK.

Thats what the angry old men want you to believe, welcome to brexit britain looking backwards not forward.

Nahhh….it’s what thousands of years of abject stupidity evidences.

You think that a species that voted for Brexit is capable of world peace?

Nahhh.

Let me finish with a quote from BSG.

We’re evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devestation and destruction wherever we go

– sums up humanity

slowoldman – Member

You will be the first to be sent to march towards the front line while the machine guns guard your rear.

Well as long as my rear is being guarded I’m OK. [/quote] See I guard your back … you safe. 😀

fergal – Member
Thats what the angry old men want you to believe, welcome to brexit britain looking backwards not forward.

Actually he is moving forward coz the machine guns are guarding his back … 😛

Tom_W1987 – Member
You think that a species that voted for Brexit is capable of world peace?

The question is who is going to give up their belief first? You don’t want to comply with others and others don’t want to comply with yours, so what do you do? 😆

Weapons are needed because humans are about half a chromosome away from chimpanzees – we haven’t evolved in a way that allows us to put down arms. There will always be those amongst us that are willing to use violence to further their own interests.

we are equalled as closely revealed to the Bonobo, who don’t use violence to resolve issues and use sex to further interests. Using evolution to explain why we manage to continue to kill each other is lazy thinking.

nickc – Member
we are equalled as closely revealed to the Bonobo, who don’t use violence to resolve issues and use sex to further interests. Using evolution to explain why we manage to continue to kill each other is lazy thinking.

There must be a possible reason Bonobo stops evolving … 🙄

we are equalled as closely revealed to the Bonobo, who don’t use violence to resolve issues and use sex to further interests. Using evolution to explain why we manage to continue to kill each other is lazy thinking.

It’s a common misconception amongst hippies that Bonobos don’t use violence to solve issues – they can and do – including organsied violence.

They are just a bit less murdery than their chimp cousins.

Boys and their toys..

If the UK had no armed forces, where would we send all our unmanageable testosterone fuelled teens? And how would all those worrying adults that never grew out of their childhood action man/sas obsessions get their misanthropic kicks?
Imagine all the sociopathic military fanbois on this thread alone, if they were left to dream up insecure bloodthirsty fantasies of their own design

I’m 100% certain that the greatest threat to security would come from within our own communities.

Whatever your, individually entirely valid, view of the Armed Forces, as a serving member of the RN I have to take issue with the idea that the young people who are joining up, do so because they have no other options or are only fit to run at bullets. The competition for a place these days is fierce and the young men and women I see coming through (with very few exceptions) are intelligent, motivated and politically aware.

Whilst there are many valid arguments for a reduction in the size of the Armed Forces it shouldn’t be forgotten that open warfare should be viewed as the failure of our many and disparate other activities. From an entirely parochial RN viewpoint, the majority of our day to day focus is on matters such as: protection of trade routes (the vast majority of our imports come via the sea), policing fishing areas, military aid to civilian authorities (disaster relief) and regional engagement. I fully understand that the more kinetic aspects of our business divide opinion along many tangents, I just wanted to highlight some of the often overlooked areas we deal in.

Thanks gunz.. thats a balanced insight and a welcome counterpoint to my slightly tongue in cheek ramblings..
I have no doubt whatsoever that my own young sons will be prime candidates for military recruitment.

Lol tom_w1987

It’s cool man, you seek to legitimise your perverted interests and that’s ok.
Your morbid fascination makes you feel deep guilt and shame, which puts you in a defensive position..
Your desire to normalise your behaviour and gain credibility for the beliefs that you have developed to cover your shame is a cry for acceptance..

It’s ok dude.. there will still be a role for you in an enlightened world.. you will be revered for your historical knowledge, but it is important to learn from the mistakes of history rather than strive to repeat it.

It’s going to be ok man..
You’re going to be ok

Tom_W1987 – Member
They are just a bit less murdery than their chimp cousins.

Their chimp cousins are more gangsta … 😆

I find you amsuing Yunki.

Without an understanding of human evolution, human behaviour, how conflict has shaped and continues to shape our world and how military matters influence geoploitics and economics – you may as well write off 90 percent of human history.

yep, don’t disagree with you. Overall they are less violent though. The point that you conveniently ignored was that we aren’t predisposed to be violent because of evolution. Evolution has given us the tools to be flexible to negotiate to adapt and to use force. There are cultural norms and institutions that are far more at play in warfare and why we’re so ready to use it, than any expressions of Darwinism or biology,

nickc – Member
yep, don’t disagree with you. Overall they are less violent though. The point that you conveniently ignored was that we aren’t predisposed to be violent because of evolution.

Competition to survive makes us mankind more “gangsta” (some not …). Hence we evolved faster than the rest in the animal kingdom in order to become the top predators to hunt others for protein … yummy yummy … 😛

We are almost certainly evolving away from violence..

We have sought at every junction to develop technologies that distance us from the acts of violence that we commit and we largely fight wars with the ultimate goal of peace.

We are nearly ALL pacifists dealing with a less than perfect situation (except young testosterone fuelled boys…. they **** love it 🙂 )

Without an understanding of human evolution, human behaviour, how conflict has shaped and continues to shape our world and how military matters influence geoploitics and economics – you may as well write off 90 percent of human history.

But we could all stop it tomorrow if we wanted to.

yunki – Member
We are almost certainly evolving away from violence..

No, we’ve not coz we are still the predators.

We just assume we have evolved away but deep down we are just more efficient at what we do …

… we largely fight wars in the name of peace.

In the same sentence? 😆

yep, don’t disagree with you. Overall they are less violent though. The point that you conveniently ignored was that we aren’t predisposed to be violent because of evolution. Evolution has given us the tools to be flexible to negotiate to adapt and to use force. There are cultural norms and institutions that are far more at play in warfare and why we’re so ready to use it, than any expressions of Darwinism or biology,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/20150811-do-animals-fight-wars

Wilson goes further. He says his critics are happy to accept that the minds of other animals were shaped by evolution, but won’t accept that the same is true of humans.

“They want to believe that… what happens in our heads, in our minds, is entirely the result of the culture around us,” says Wilson.

He remains convinced that chimps, and therefore humans, have an innate capacity for violence, shaped by an evolutionary history in which violence was sometimes advantageous.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xat1GVnl8-k[/video]

what bit did you miss when I wrote:

Evolution has given us the tools to be flexible to negotiate to adapt and to use force.

The difference, is of course; we are conscious, you simply cannot postulate that the violence of male chimpanzees is direct evidence of our use of violence. This is why I found your quotation of that terrible load of old nonsense Guns Germs and Steel so illustrative.

Just because we have the capacity for brutality doesn’t excuse our use of it. Violence in human terms IS the expression of politics/society, it’s not “because we are”.

Of course we are concious, I just don’t think that our thinking is dominated by higher order thought processes as much as you’d like to think that we are….

There is a good amount of evidence that a lot of what you think is conscious beahviour….really isn’t.

It’s open to debate of course, you’ll find evoloutionary biologists and neurologists on either side of the argument.

politics/society

And our biology shapes the society, culture and politics that we live with. As the saying goes, people get the politicians they deserve.