No, clearly a system that made your car slam on into a full emergency stop when it wasn’t an emergency would be dangerous.

I think such a system would be much more like:

*beep* *beep* “30 Zone – Speed Limit Exceeded”

*beep* *beep* “30 Zone – Speed Limit Exceeded”

*beep* *beep* “30 Zone – Speed Limit Exceeded”

*beep* *beep* “Warning – Reducing Speed in 10 seconds”

*beep* *beep* “Reducing Speed”

..begins braking gently..

That may seem far-fetched, but autonomous vehicles will have to do something similar.

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>They can do 40 in a 60 as much as they want, makes them relatively easy to pass when it’s safe.</span>

Thing is..  sometimes you need to go over 60 to get past because (maybe bikebouy can explain this, as he’s admitted to being one), though they appear to be content going 40 in a 60 (and are upset if someone is following them), they ALWAYS take umbrage at  being overtaken…. ALL OF THEM. Some of them just flash when you’ve passed, others do actually speed up a bit when you begin your overtake. So knowing your car won’t go over 60 will mean you probably couldn’t take the chance of passing.

So when I drive my German registered car to UK, I’d be well safe, being limited to doing 60kmh in a 60mph zone 

My motor has a camera based speed recognition system but it seemingly recognised I was in France and adjusted the warnings accordingly – impressed me!

Proximity cameras on motorways should be the next step, I believe these exist in Germany already and are good at preventing tailgating.

No proximity cameras in Germany, what they do have is cameras that monitor lane hogging and issue fines for doing so.

I don’t see there is any reason why your car would have to do an emergency stop any more than it does when you change the cruise control speed. Knowing where the signs are coming up (it’s not like their location changes frequently) would make it smoother and safer than a normal driver.

any more than it does when you change the cruise control speed

absolutely.  A few cars i’ve driven have had a dual mode cruise control that can be used as a speed limiter (you set the limit).  Seemed completely safe to me, I found it useful.  I use cruise in our car on a lot of 30 and 40 limit ‘suburban’ roads, and on the motorway.  Strangely I’ve never picked up a speeding ticket, through the clever system of paying attention to the speed limit and driving below it.

Self driving cars might be a long way from fully developed but the technological challenges that people are using to argue against must already be bunk.  Self driving cars will need (and must already have) an up to date and accurate speed limit map – your sat nav doesn’t, it’s a secondary feature that gives advice.  That said, i’ve found the limit displayed by our satnav to be remarkably accurate whenever i’ve used it.

accelerate out of trouble’

All the stuff I’ve read on Self Driving cars suggests this is just a pistonheads argument (also in the car will have to decide between hitting old lady and group of schoolchildren question).  The answer is always emergency stop as the way of causing least harm – if there is a collision it happens at lower speed which is better for all.

The answer is always emergency stop as the way of causing least harm – if there is a collision it happens at lower speed which is better for all.

No, it isn’t.

I’ll give you an example, as someone else asked earlier too.

Slowing / stopping is almost always the correct course of action – it’s what they teach learners to do – but that really only applies if the hazard is in front of you.

Some years ago now, going through a green traffic light at a crossroads, a car coming from the left ran the red light at speed. If I’d dropped anchor he’d have t-boned me; if I’d done nothing he’d still have run into the side of me only further back. I moved over to the right to give myself more space and booted it, basically got the hell out of the way as he shot behind me.

Lesson learned, I always check side roads at crossroads now even if lights are green. But I still hold that if I’d done anything other than stand on the loud pedal that day it would’ve cost me a car and potentially considerably more than if anyone had been in the passenger seat.

Cougar, can you put some numbers to that example? Ie, what speed were you going, how much time did you have to decide and stand on the pedal?

Also, even if there are a few edge cases where danger is caused by *not* being able to speed how does that compare to the cases where limiting speeds would have save lives (or just improved walking and cycling conditions such that people were less sedentary).

You don’t need a limiter, you just need a tamper proof GPS that enables you to be fined automatically, about like the swear ticket in ‘demolition man’

after a certain amount or a serious offence you get your license revoked.

It could just work the way speed limiters work at the moment – if you mash your foot to the floor it temporarily removes the limit.

As your foot reduces the pressure slightly the limiter comes back in. Problem solved. You could exceed the speed limit this way but you’d lose your license or destroy the engine before too long.

Thing is..  <em class=”bbcode-em”>sometimes you need to go over 60 to get past because (maybe bikebouy can explain this, as he’s admitted to being one), though they appear to be content going 40 in a 60 (and are upset if someone is following them), they ALWAYS take umbrage at  being overtaken…. ALL OF THEM

Yeah, I can answer this with some certainty.

I fully admit I drive slow, I’ve mentioned it many times in threads on here where the subject on car choices or speeding related questions appear.

I will not drive slow enough to annoy other road users, no. I do drive close to the speed limits, not on the limit but in the main <10mph below the limit so 50 in a 60, 30 in a 40 and 25 in a 30. I once hit 70 in my car last year and I had a nose bleed (I didn’t  but it did feel weird) So my motorway driving is most definitely in the slow lane following trucks doing 62 or 56 and I set my auto cruise to 80-100mtrs behind the vehicle in front. I see plenty of people doing the same speeds and rarely do I see angry overtakes, I see plenty of overtakes and that’s absolutely fine.

I changed my driving habits a long time ago, decided that there was no need for speed and wanted to enjoy the drive as much as I can without getting stressed over bad drivers and being caught up in slam breaking situations that often occur on the road network. I chose slow as the new fast. I have timed journeys to often used locations and it takes me on average 15mins or so more to get to the destination. As an example Sotty to Harrogate up the A34/43/M1 takes 4.30 without holdups, it takes me 5hrs doing ave 60 on the motorways. That 30mins makes no difference to me or anyone else on the road..

In town or A road driving, as said, I will drive about 10mph less than the speed limit (same on dual carriageway) and yes often I have been flashed or finger waved or finger jabbed to get out of the way. I simply refuse, mainly because I’m following other vehicles doing similar speed and I flatly refuse to be bullied on the road network.

Yes, yes I have a view to those that drive up my rear end and who try to intimidate me but I have long since given up GAS about thier obnoxious attitude and continue on my merry way. Yes I do pull over to let other vehicles overtake should I find a suitable location to do so. If on country lanes or B roads I will often encounter speed freaks who look like pork chops in blenders sitting in thier driving seat when they encounter me in front of them. I do admit to punishing them if they try to intimidate me by driving slower, I do not slam brake them I simply and safely reduce speed over a section of the road… this cause s one or two actions to those behind.. 1) the pork chop explodes and makes a badly judged overtake manoeuvre in which case I slow right down to let them pass safely so they often end up flooring it and finding they’re 300mtrs ahead and have yet to pull in. I will not accelerate as they pass to intimidate them, nope I slow down to give them room to pull in in front of me. 2) they back off and realise why I’m driving carefully and they relax.

Most truck drivers are **** arseholes though and continue to intimidate even though they’ve been given enough room to pull in and yet they seem to insist on swerving as they overtake to prove some point or other. If this happens I make note of the company name and call them up explaining  the situation and that I will report the offender to the police.

90% of the time drivers realise the way I drive is not how they want to drive and safely overtake and they’re on thier way, safely. I have no problem with that in the slightest.

I am not a God, I simply refuse to be intimidated whilst driving and going about my business on the public highway.

As an example my trip meter on my car hasn’t been reset and the ave speed reads 32mph. Ok, that in itself isn’t a primer but it does give you an idea of the Speeds I must drive at. And I drive all over the road network on the vast array of roads available.

Does my wife think I drive slowly? Yes, she drives like a looney and we fall out over the same topic every time we are in the vehicle together, we have driven to the same location on the same day in separate vehicles quite often.

IMO, make that what you will.

you just need a tamper proof GPS that enables you to be fined automatically

Problem is GPS is really, really easy to jam since it uses such low signal strength.

Yeah but the solution is that the vast majority would find their driving experience to be improved (including but not limited to the fuel savings) such that most would have no reason to bypass automatic limiters.

I do admit to punishing them if they try to intimidate me by driving slower,

I didn’t have a problem with what you posted up until this point. Do you really think that deliberately antagonising people who probably have an attitude problem is a safe way to go about it? Presuambly you believe you are driving slowly in order to make the world a safer place.  I really think you need to take a bit of a look at yourself. This is classic passive aggresive behaviour & frankly it is almost as dangerous as outright aggression. Controlling behaviour is not necessarily a great idea in a public space.

<p>Bikebuoy why do you drive so slowly?</p><p></p><p>I mean, 25 in a 30 seems logical as most 30 roads around my home are ridiculous, more often so 20 is safer. However I’ve yet to see a 40 or 50 limit road that warrants driving 10mph slower. In these cases you are just holding up traffic (failing to make progress) and despite your self proclaimed moral superiority would actually be liable to fail a driving exam if you drove like that.</p>

I will not drive slow enough to annoy other road users, no. I do drive close to the speed limits, not on the limit but in the main <10mph below the limit so 50 in a 60, 30 in a 40 and 25 in a 30. I once hit 70 in my car last year and I had a nose bleed (I didn’t  but it did feel weird) So my motorway driving is most definitely in the slow lane following trucks doing 62 or 56 and I set my auto cruise to 80-100mtrs behind the vehicle in front. I see plenty of people doing the same speeds and rarely do I see angry overtakes, I see plenty of overtakes and that’s absolutely fine.

I can see where you’re coming from with this and the rest of the post, but I would still like to pass if you’re doing 50 on a long straight bit of 60 limit. I’m not going to get angry at you, but I would expect you to cooperate (i.e. not suddenly decide that you must not be passed, and not suddenly accelerate if there’s an overtaking lane for a short section etc.) if I decided to overtake – which would be more of a dangerous manoevre if I didn’t exceed the limit. I fully accept that if I was subsequently going to stick to the limit my time saved would be minimal but people aren’t logical.

I think if I lived down south, I’d probably do the same, I certainly used to do this taking the M1 on a Friday afternoon – absolutely no point in getting in the outside lane to accelerate up to 90 then drop to a crawl, far better to take a less crowded lane and plod away/save fuel and stress.

I can’t honestly say I’ve ever accelerated out of a situation I’ve not got myself into (I’m not sure if I’ve accelerated out of one I have got myself into, but it would be harder to overtake if a strict speed limiter was in place). And knowing I couldn’t overtake things due to a speed limiter would probably be safer, but more frustrating.

Cougar, can you put some numbers to that example? Ie, what speed were you going, how much time did you have to decide and stand on the pedal?

Not really I’m afraid, it was probably 20 years ago now.

I didn’t have a problem with what you posted up until this point.

+1.

Aside from being selfish, it’s really dangerous.  Best thing you can do with a road rager is get as far away from them as possible before they cause an accident.

I want this automated system to speed bikebouy up to the speed limit just to see his face 🙂

I didn’t have a problem with what you posted up until this point. Do you really think that deliberately antagonising people who probably have an attitude problem is a safe way to go about it?

Yeah, you are right but after about 3miles of finger wagging being drive up the arse gets on my nerves, so I take the opportunity to find a piece of road that’s open enough for the driver to overtake, then as they do so I slow right down to let them pass.

Hope that clears that point up.

I confess to being someone who likes to “get on with it” although I’d like to think I don’t drive dangerously, or inconsiderately, including not getting judgmental or annoyed at people who drive differently (in the main…)

Although different to me, Bikebouys post seemed like a perfectly sensible approach to driving, including the slowing down if someone’s getting wound up, to be honest. It seems like he’s demonstrating good awareness of what’s going on around him, which is sadly lacking in so many drivers.

I don’t care what speed folks do, but deliberately slowing down to “punish” people is as bad as the folks tail gating. Both are behaviours designed to wind some-one else up, and it only gets done from the safety of each other’s cars. You’d never behave that way face to face with someone, doing it in a car is dangerous, and distracting.

I like the idea of needing proof of VED, MOT and insurance in order to start the engine though

Ignore MOT bit as it’s pretty pointless*… but scrap insurance and VED as we know it and alter the tax on fuel to cover VED and insurance. Since all vehicles require fuel, anyone who is driving has already paid their insurance and VED. And those who drive the most (doing pollutes and increasing their risk of having an accident) pay more.

* Only really means the vehicle is ‘safe’ on the day of the test

IMO, make that what you will.

Well, I read all that, and all I can say is, I have never encountered you or anyone who drives like you in my entire life. Nice to be different, I guess.

Haven’t read all the posts (does anyone these days?) but… it’s not an issue about speeding per se, it’s about the role of government in controlling individual behaviour. No, I’m not a red neck survivalist but where do you draw the line: stopping smokers buying cigarettes, drinkers buying booze, obese people buying chocolate? Best to cajole and manage with taxes and laws, letting the occasional 1% exception slip through, rather than instigate principles and rules that affect the other 99%. Speeding isn’t big and it’s not clever, but treat people as responsible individuals and punish those few that abuse that right.

If bikebouy’s “punishment” is gently lifting off the accelerator when people are dangerously tailgating, is that not the recommended course of action per the Highway Code anyway? Means they can FO and overtake and be dangerous somewhere else.

Well, I’m knew fully as I typed that all out that it would probably provoke consternation and recriminations.

Well I’m used to that.

”punishment” was a bad word to use to describe the action. I’ll freely admit that.

But I will defend my actions. I will not be intimidated into driving “faster” just becuse You want to make progress. So, so back off.

I do slow down Yes, but not immediately nor dangerously. No, I’m not that stupid nor selfish.

I choose an appropriate piece of road whereby I can slowly slow down and that “encourages” the arselicker behind to overtake, once they have started the manoeuvre I slow down fairly rapidly to let them in the space.. by creating space.. in front of me.

HTHs.

You can all now go back to pulling apart every word I’ve written and interpret that at your leisure.

I will continue to drive happily on the road network, and get to my destination calm, collected and without incident.

Enjoy Driving like Gods you lot.

😜🤷‍♂️

What about the arbitrary self imposed10mph lower speed limit? How confident are you that you pass a driving test doing that?

Fine thanks, you?

I didn’t say arbitrarily, I said that’s what I do and plenty of other people do too.

But clearly I’m amongst driving divas and you need someone to intimidate which confirms my suspicions.

I wish you well in driving to your next destination.

Really, am I intimidating you by pointing out that your behaviour would get you marked down at the very least on a driving test? You were also asked what your logic was, is that intimidating too?

Fwiw I often drive below the limits in 30 zones as I said and NSL roads since there are vehicles with lower limits anyway but I don’t hold other people up by driving well below the limit on other roads.

Finally, I’m not sure what you are trying to do by using the “plenty of other people” excuse. If anything is obvious it’s that plenty of people are shit drivers but it’s always the other people.

Someone so easily intimidated probably shouldn’t be driving on public roads.

But clearly I’m amongst driving divas

calling people names for obeying the speed limit isn’t giving you the moral high ground you perhaps think it is.

We’re not intimidating.

It just looks that way when you’re driving, smugly thinking you’re a god permanently looking in the rear view mirror, because we’ll be doing potentially 30% more speed (but still well within the limit) and have to back off drastically because of your policing.

At least I know who it was that stamped on the brakes at every new speed limit sign, despite already being within the limit for that zone.

Only thing worse than the 45ers* are those that impose 1 speed limit lower than the indicated limit on others.

*45ers… those that do 45 in a 30, 45 in a 40, 45 in a 50 and 45 in a 60.

Really, am I intimidating you by pointing out that your behaviour would get you marked down at the very least on a driving test? You were also asked what your logic was, is that intimidating too?

“It’s a limit but not a target” sure, but not driving to the limit without good reason is a test failure.  Failure to make progress / hesitant or nervous driving, IIRC.

I’ve no issues with someone driving slowly.  But driving unnecessarily slowly simply “because you can” is just antagonistic.  We should drive at an appropriate speed according to the conditions, the fact that many people can’t do this is why we need speed limits.

Watch out Cougar, it’s going to escalate to “bullying” if mods get involved.

But yes, that.

The whole ‘speed doesn’ t cause accidents” mantra is a bit like saying that gravity isn’t an issue with plane crashes. Ofcourse speeding creates accidents because it changes the whole dynamics of the vehicle, making it less stable more likely to squish the contents or anyone unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place – a bit like the tobacco industry denying for decades that smoking kills people. Bring on full-autonomy and we’ll be able to use directed energy weapons to vaporise any **** – starting with the 3 Brummy knobs on motorbikes in the Brecon Beacons today 

Is bold the new caps lock?

Only thing worse than the 45ers* are those that impose 1 speed limit lower than the indicated limit on others.

I actually find the ‘constant 40ers’ more annoying – those who drive at this speed regardless of whether the limit is 50, or 60, or 30…