I’ve thought his for a while, so just wondering what other people think. Why should vehicles not be limited, automatically, to the speed limit for the road they’re on, using GPS and other technological wizardry?

Technology wise, it’s obviously pretty easily doable on new cars, and I realize the issue about retro fitting stuff to older cars, but putting that to on side, what’s the moral, philosophical or maybe even practical arguments against it?

It would be pretty easy to hack too.

It needs to be solid enough as evidence in court also.

[pistonheads] I need freedom to use my awesome skills to accelerate out of trouble even if that takes me over the speed limit [/pistonheads]

Personally seems like a good idea. My car knows what the speed limit is on most roads based on GPS, although some it doesn’t have data for. It can also use the cameras to identify speed limit signs and use that.Gets it right about 90% of the time. Guess we just need to fill in the gaps and we’re good to go.

[pistonheads] I need freedom to use my awesome skills to accelerate out of trouble even if that takes me over the speed limit [/pistonheads]

Yeah, I was expecting that, and I’ll be honest I though it might be a valid argument. I can’t think of a specific scenario though.

They (well new ones) are in Japan arent they, a blanket 112mph limit, unless at a track?

The “accelerate out of trouble” argument is  defeated with suitable exceptions.

e.g. you are allowed to exceed the limit for up to one minute (with suitable warnings)

Personally I like the idea that the limit isn’t enforced but exceeding the limit causes the car to turn off the stereo, and Bluetooth, and start blocking mobile signals.

Wouldn’t want you distracted would we?

Perhaps it could also make a suitably annoying noise to indicate the issue.

I’d be interested.  I think an even better application for this would be smart road network with GPS limiting to a max “journey speed”.  e.g. you feel like going fast, or even 40 in a 50, but there’s a red light or roadworks ahead, or just town centre traffic.  There’s actually no point going any faster than 15mph, any faster and you’ll just get to the back of the queue quicker.  15mph is your “journey speed” for that stretch of road.  If you want to get past that cyclist because he’s “holding you up” you’d learn via you lack of throttle response that he’s already going quicker than your “max journey speed”

Or you’re doing 65 mph on the motorway in traffic and tailgating the one ahead, because you’re in such an important hurry.  Well, more congestion ahead means that 54mph would mean you’d there at the same time, so that’s what you’re going to do.

Maybe you’d chill the **** out.

They (well new ones) are in Japan arent they, a blanket 112mph limit, unless at a track?

If so it begs the question of why they didnt set the limit to the highest legal limit of 100kph.

The biggest problem would be the majority of voters wouldn’t like it.

Car manufactures wouldn’t like it and they drive the economies of very large influential countries like Germany, Japan and the US.

Safety wise, speed kills, yeah, driving like a **** causes accidents and kills people, but frankly most cars these days are incredibly easy and safe to drive, you can’t really crash a modern car at 20-40mph unless you do something really stupid, like daydreaming about Christmas or whatever when you should be driving, or looking at their phones. What would happen is this, after a few weeks of getting used to the system, people would simply hold their foot on the throttle pedal letting the cars speed be controlled by the limiter and switch off even more than they do now.

I’m kind of against having to legislate for every damn thing. And it would only take one instance of “my loved one/whoever would still be alive if the car had allowed them to accelerate”.

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>But people do seem to be incapable of adhering to rule 1…</span>

What would happen is this, after a few weeks of getting used to the system, people would simply hold their foot on the throttle pedal letting the cars speed be controlled by the limiter and switch off even more than they do now.

That’d be my main concern.

I’d rather they installed stuff that communicated with the DVLA every time someone tried to start a vehicle and wouldn’t let it start unless VED and Insurance were in place and the driver had a licence. Vehicles shoudl also record their position on GPS at all times and be able to be read remotely in the event of a collision where/when they were somewhere to ascertain if they were involved.

I realise this is an active measure and relies on good comms but in most urban and suburban areas it wouldn;t be a problem and the car coudl wait until it established comms before checkign and then refusing to restart the next time it was used until overridden.

There’s 5000 hit and runs in London every year – reducing those is probably more important than enforcing speed limits, imo, because those who’ll run arte usually those already breaking the law.

Oh, and doesn’t this become a moot point when fully autonomous cars become the norm, anyway?

As above – too many variables for it to work. My car often tells me its a 70mph speed limit but I am in the middle of the road works on the M1 with a 50mph limit etc etc.

Anyone know what the proportion of car related deaths are caused by exceeding marked speed limits?

As well as declaring the limit is 70 in a 50 zone, mine often tells me I’m in an old set of 50mph roadworks on an open 70mph stretch of motorway.

Or is having a fit telling me I’m permanently speeding on the autobahn in a section where there’s an 80kph section parallel, but 130kph limit on the main carriageway.

If the technology is going to be used for penalties and prosecution, it’s going to have to be a damn sight more tight evidence than that.

I like the idea of needing proof of VED, MOT and insurance in order to start the engine though.

Anyone know what the proportion of car related deaths are caused by exceeding marked speed limits?

15% according to “RAS50001: Contributory factors in reported accidents by severity” in RRCGB 2016

Third highest contributory factor in fatal accidents after “Loss of control” (30%) and “Driver/Rider failed to look properly” (27%).

What would happen is this, after a few weeks of getting used to the system, people would simply hold their foot on the throttle pedal letting the cars speed be controlled by the limiter and switch off even more than they do now.

Then after a few more weeks they would all be off the road having their cars straightened out, as would the poor sods they’d driven into.

Anyone know what the proportion of car related deaths are caused by exceeding marked speed limits?

Problem is there isn’t any way of compiling a statistic for “deaths caused by being a dick”, but speed can be measured, and there’s probably a high correlation between speeding and being a dick, and breaking other rules (tailgating, not indicating, phone usage, eating toast, etc).

Problem is now that they’ve clamped down on speed to a fair degree, those people just eat toast and update facebook at the speed limit (as long as there’s a yellow box on the roadside or Waze is telling them there’s a police car ahead).

We’re going to have to solve all of these ‘well the road next to this one has a different limit’ type issues for autonomous cars to function properly so once that’s happened then applying it to vehicles with human drivers will be possible?

I was at a conference in Gothenburg about this and automated vehicles last week. My brain still hurts.

In terms of ISA the obstacles to its implementation are largely political (as with almost all transport projects , see cycle paths/ car free city centres, congestion charging etc etc )    Everyone thinks they are experts (see above and below 🙂 ) and it would be met my opposition despite the evidence … flame on…!

3 types of system are being looked at, advisory, driver select and mandatory, coupled with fixed , variable or dynamic speed limits types.

massive sweeping statement but it is thought deaths , injuries and fuel consumption would decrease, (more or less depending on type of system) whereas system implementation costs are huge, but these are balanced by cost savings elsewhere. i.e. you no longer need to build anything to create a 20mph zone. The actual technology is fairly simple.

15% according to “RAS50001: Contributory factors in reported accidents by severity” in RRCGB 2016

Third highest contributory factor in fatal accidents after “Loss of control” (30%) and “Driver/Rider failed to look properly” (27%).

so not a reason not to. but what i would expect is that it wouldn’t be in addition to traffic police. it would be instead of.

which would arguably make the roads more dangerous.

As above – too many variables for it to work. My car often tells me its a 70mph speed limit but I am in the middle of the road works on the M1 with a 50mph limit etc etc.

Yes, but it’s just a “nice to have”/”best endeavours” add-on that the car manufacturer has given you (like the cup-holders so you can drink coffee and drive). It would be necessary to create a definitive system dictated by the powers that be to implement this putative scheme.

Maybe because there’s no political will to do it? Who’d stump up the cash to plug the hole left from speeding fines and the economy dependent on catching speeders (smart motorways anyone?)

it wouldn’t be in addition to traffic police. it would be instead of.

What traffic police??

I think it could potentially dangerous unless implemented carefully.

Accelerating out of trouble is a viable manoeuvre – I’ve done it before now, below the speed limit I believe, and happy to explain the circumstances if anyone wants to tell me I’m wrong – and if a situation develops where I suddenly need to hit the loud pedal then the last thing I want to do is bounce off a speed limiter.  A system which generally limits speeds but is smart enough to recognise an atypical emergency might work I suppose.

The other argument is driver attentiveness of course, which we discussed on another thread recently.  If you give a driver less to think about, do they focus more on other things or do they pay less attention generally?  I think the answer might be “it depends,” which gives us something of a quandary.

As well as declaring the limit is 70 in a 50 zone, mine often tells me I’m in an old set of 50mph roadworks on an open 70mph stretch of motorway.

A few folk have said similar here.  Technology exists now where cars can read the road signs (I think the new Mondeo has it) rather than rely on potentially out-of-date maps.

What other areas in life would you be happy to let technology enforce rules?

I like the idea of needing proof of VED, MOT and insurance in order to start the engine though.

The problem here is that the people most needing this would be the people most likely to bypass the system.  Like the prick on a trials bike who nearly rode into my car the other day – on the wrong side of the road, on one wheel, two-up with no helmets.  He’s totally going to have a VED immobiliser fitted.

What other areas in life would you be happy to let technology enforce rules?

Train Operation.

Aircraft Operation.

Boat Operation.

Lorry drivers driving hours.

Preventing theft from stores by means of an audible warning of shop lifting at the exit doors.

Doctors Prescriptions and access to controlled drugs.

etc etc

He’s totally going to have a VED immobiliser fitted.

and you have to have sufficient punishment for not having one and the certainty of being caught without/with a bypassed one to make it not worth even trying.

Or you’re doing 65 mph on the motorway in traffic and tailgating the one ahead,

I like the idea of your car slowing down by itself in this situation.  I’d also force the washer jets to shoot the driver in the eyes with soapy water if they flash their lights at a car that’s passing a long stream of HGVs, but not at their desired 95 mph.

Technology exists now where cars can read the road signs (I think the new Mondeo has it) rather than rely on potentially out-of-date maps.

So when I drive my German registered car to UK, I’d be well safe, being limited to doing 60kmh in a 60mph zone 😉

No limit signs in 30 zones.  It’d have to remember from the previous journey, as well as using GPS. Even more complicated if a 20 zone (although I think those are not legally enforced?).

The technology is easy, definitely. It’s just the exceptions that make it complicated.

What would be the problem with technologically-enforced speed limits

IMO, massively increased complexity and potential of reduced reliability, esp as these theoretical vehicles progress through the second hand market, combined with only very marginal justification for such a system. Gross speed is only a causal factor in a small proportion of accidents, the vast majority of traffic is now largely speed compliant, and your proposed system would almost certainly increase the incidence of ‘due care and attention’ RTCs.

All that being said, the ‘speed out of trouble’ argument could be easily worked around with an indented accelerator pedal and an irritating bonger that goes off whenever over the limit.

in fact, rather than a limiter, a bonger that goes off constantly if speeding in a similar fashion to the now compulsory seat belt warning bongers would be a much more palatable alternative maybe?

-posted from my iPhone whilst driving at or below the speed limit*

*not really but you get my point

What traffic police??

i read about them in a book…

 It’s just the exceptions that make it complicated.

they really don’t

Of course we are putting all this on the car, which perhaps is the wrong approach.

We already have a solution for this, that would work on all cars, can’t be easily bypassed by the driver, and would allow for “accelerate out of trouble”: average speed cameras.

It doesn’t have to be universal – once a certain percentage of cars are traveling at the speed limit it’s impossible to speed for more than a few hundred metres.

The technology is easy, definitely. It’s just the exceptions that make it complicated.

But that stuff will need to get sorted out for autonomous vehicles anyway. Whether that means additional signage, better GPS speed limit maps, some kind of local limit broadcast system or some combination of the above.

It will happen at some point but likely after autonomous cars are mainstream. We’ll have smart roads with variable limits everywhere depending on time of day, weather conditions, proximity to a school etc. We’ll all essentially be passengers not drivers.