Viewing 21 posts - 41 through 61 (of 61 total)
  • What to spray into suspension pivots after washing bike?
  • molgrips
    Free Member

    Lots of mechanisms at play in bearing failure

    Interested…?

    grimep
    Free Member

    Jesus Christ it’s a bicycle not a baby lamb

    Waderider
    Free Member

    Four opinions:

    Too many people speak from an unfounded position of authority on the internet.

    A penetrating fluid or light lubricant will get through seals and break down grease in sealed bearings.

    Hot soapy water and proprietary cleaners wont help bearing life if liberally applied.

    Either brush dirt off or don’t give a hoot about all this and cyclically replace bearings and bushings as required, following making your bike sparkly.

    Waderider
    Free Member

    I recommend a degree in mechanical engineering……….

    kelvin
    Full Member

    replace bearings and bushings as required

    This.

    weeksy
    Full Member

    They’re disposable items. I wash all our bikes fully, I also strip and sort any issues, it’s just bike ownership

    bill-oddie
    Free Member

    After a proper wet gritty ride i brush out the pivots with a dry soft bristle toothbrush then brush some grease in onto any exposed bolts / bearing exterior with little paint brush. Then wipe any excess off with a tissue to stop it attracting too much dirt next time out.

    Been doing this a couple of years a coincidentally when it comes to bearing change time nothing has been seized in place. 🙂

    joefm
    Full Member

    I just use some muc off gt85 equivalent or whatever is lurking to hand after hosing, mainly to make it shiny. Riding does way more damage and the bearings are sealed. Once they start to play I’ll fix them as they dont cost much anyway (it’s rare they need changing). knackering your drive train because you dont clean the grit off probably costs more.

    whatgoesup
    Full Member

    “Sealed”.

    If they were actually *sealed* they wouldn’t rotate very freely…

    You’ve hit the nail on the head. They’re sealed, but not hermetically as they need to move. Varying grades of seal exist – the balance is between cost, friction, wear rate and level of sealing. The ones used on bikes are a relatively simple, and gentle seal to keep friction relatively low, hence they’re resistant to general water and muck, but not against pressurized water – jet wash etc.

    Lots of mechanisms at play in bearing failure

    There are indeed. The dominant ones for bike bearings (which are pretty lightly loaded vs the capacity that these bearing types are capable of) are corrosion and debris intrusion. If the internals are kept clean then on a bike they should last for tens of thousands of miles if not more. Once water and grit get inside then they could last for only tens of miles or even corrode just over time.

    The other things that can kill bearings in bikes usage is side loading – incorrectly fitted spacers etc but that’s less common and you’ll know if this is the case.

    I recommend a degree in mechanical engineering……….

    Indeed that helps, although it’s the experience of designing and maintaining things, general approach to understanding how mechanical how things work and the propensity to actually look things up rather than base off opinion that matters and that doesn’t need a degree.

    whatgoesup
    Full Member

    I think the way that bearings fail is as you bounce around on the bike the balls flex slightly, it roughens up the surfaces which causes more wear and as the balls and races get damaged the seals end up having to flex more to account for the movement, and eventually on one hit a trace of moisture gets in which, if the bike is dirty brings a tiny bit of material in with it. Once this is in the balls and races start to wear which then makes more play and more water gets in then within a ride they are knackered.

    Sorry to be blunt, but no. Ball bearings and the races that they run are are very, very hard and can withstand loadings massively in excess of anything a bike rider could impose on them through riding loads. Just go to the skf website or similar and look up your bike bearing and then look up the the maximum loading and maximum speeds.

    Also the seals, being rubber (soft) can accommodate a relatively large amount of movement whilst still sealing. The balls and races, being hardened steel (hard) won’t deflect much. The clearances in the bearing are also very small. So – no matter how much load you put on the bearing the seal won’t fail to seal. The bearins will shatter and/or embed themselves into the race before the seal fails to seal.

    There is plenty of literature out there on ball bearing failure modes. I suggest anyone interested spends 15 min on google.

    elray89
    Free Member

    I don’t think I can bring myself to not wash my bike. Presume the Transition dude was talking about the frame not the drivetrain? I get irrationally uneasy if I have to store my full suspension bike for a week or two between uses with a drivetrain that is dirty and grainy.

    steve_b77
    Free Member
    grimep

    Free Member

    Jesus Christ it’s a bicycle not a baby lamb

    This ^ I hope none of the blow driers and general bike pamperers (?) ever turn up to a cyclocross race – the bikes are jet washed top to bottom repeatedly pretty much every race all season, when the bearings give up the ghost you replace them, they’re cheap consumables.

    Which is what I do with my FS,  wash it with bike type cleaner, bounce it to knock the excess water off, give it a quick towel down, dry the chain with a cloth, re-lube it and then put it away until next time. When the bearings need replacing, they get replaced. Job done.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Yea, as above.

    The drivetrain gets washed as required. Hot wax though, so it’s pretty rare to give it a full on degrease and clean.

    The rest of the bike get’s hosed off either with the garden hose or a dirtworker style washer to remove lose mud. Then if I’m feeling tarty, or I’m riding somewhere other than local trails to prevent disease spread, or it’s the ‘nice’ bike and I won’t be riding it again for a bit I might wash it with a sponge and generic turtlewax style car shampoo to get the last of the muddy marks off it. And If I’m being really tarty, dry it with the airline and give it a wipe with frame protector, but apart form the drivetrain I’d not direct it straight into at any moving parts.

    Somewhere between the more you do to the bike, the quicker they’ll wear out. And they’re consumables, live with it.

    Jesus Christ it’s a bicycle not a baby lamb

    Not sure mint, rosemary and goats cheese stuffing and oven for 3 hours is really going to do the bearings much good.

    Although the rendered lard would make an interesting bio-degradable hot-wax option.

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    “I don’t think I can bring myself to not wash my bike.”

    I’m the opposite. I can’t bear how much time it takes to do properly or how bad for bikes it is squirting water (or worse, cleaning chemicals!) at them.

    Hardtail is two years old and has never been fully washed. I cleaned just the frame last summer so it looked nice and shiny for a short while. Ebike is over five years old and I’m guessing I cleaned it when I needed the LBS to service it. It’s hard to remember… The mud falls off eventually, or I knock it off if it’s persistent.

    I get really good bearing life from all my bikes despite riding them in all weathers and lots of mud, so I don’t think it’s a bad approach to ownership.

    mert
    Free Member

    I’m the opposite. I can’t bear how much time it takes to do properly or how bad for bikes it is squirting water (or worse, cleaning chemicals!) at them.

    About 15 minutes? Warm soapy water and a garden hose? Maybe a bit of mild degreaser if you’re a chain oiler instead of waxer?

    And it’s not bad to squirt water at bikes.
    It’s bad to blast them with a directed jet of high pressure water.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    So how does that first bit of grit or water get behind the seal?

    endoverend
    Full Member

    Its one of lifes great mysteries, like where does that sock go in the washing. Is it something to do with water molecule size vs droplet? There’s a tiny contact patch of a normal ‘V’ lip seal against a rotating race (other seal designs are available) with forces like capillary action at play I’d imagine it’s not that hard for moisture to get behind a seal… or even more so a penetrating lube with surfacing properties designed to do exactly that. The leading edge of a minimal contact seal is flexible enough for small particulates to pass through under pressure. But usually the grittyness felt in a bearing is the result of a tiny amount of moisture entering the system and initiating the corrosive process on the race or balls, once its got going not much will stop it. Which is why its always best to use really good quality bearings, as the materials and surface treatments used will better withstand the inevitable moisture ingress.

    nickc
    Full Member

    or how bad for bikes it is squirting water (or worse, cleaning chemicals!) at them.

    Its not. I mean I’m not as fastidious as some on here, but my bikes get a hoses at them after nearly every ride this time of year, and wiped clean(ish). I also get a pretty good lifetime from my bearings.

    dc1988
    Full Member

    Anecdotally, I rarely wash my bikes and I also rarely have to replace bearings (BB’s, headsets, linkages, hubs).

    I always hear about how bad Sram BB’s are but my GXP one is still going strong after over 5 years of use. I probably wash my bike once a year at best

    andybrad
    Full Member

    i love the comments from the people that dont wash their bikes. Sometimes you cant turn a wheel theres that much mud on mine. Do you ride yours in the dry/ on a road or something?

    thols2
    Full Member

    i love the comments from the people that dont wash their bikes. Sometimes you cant turn a wheel theres that much mud on mine. Do you ride yours in the dry/ on a road or something?

    Let it dry, brush the mud off, lube the chain, ride.

Viewing 21 posts - 41 through 61 (of 61 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.