What to cut to fund the NHS?

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  • What to cut to fund the NHS?
  • jekkyl
    Member

    Almost every day there’s news about how the NHS is at breaking point. Various conspiracy theories abound about how this is a Tory ploy so we accept privatisation more readily. Say Corbyn grows a backbone and gets in power where does he get the money to properly fund the NHS?
    Could we make do with a minimal military for example? Get rid of Trident, would that be enough?
    Suggestions please.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Get rid of free houses and free-for-all expenses for MPs? It’s 2017, give ’em all video conferencing.

    Why cut anything, apart from Trident?

    Nationalise the utilities and use the profits towards increasing NHS funding.

    Trident and military for me and have a bloody good think about all non means tested benefits

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Incidentally,

    If we leave the EU and scrap our nuclear programme / military, aren’t we a bit ****ed?

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    Ask the banks for our money back?

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    Cut shareholder dividends, pay employees more, raise more tax.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Cut the austerity bs

    ulysse
    Member

    All the above

    Apart from cutting conventional military, although I’m no way a fanboi of guns and gun fantasists

    brooess
    Member

    Easy, change the proposition of ‘free at the point of delivery’ – it’s simply not sustainable, means we’re not incentivised to look after ourselves and means we take for granted the value it provides – if it’s free, it has no cost… (we believe)

    It will get sorted in 20 years time when the population is no longer ageing…

    In the meantime, government needs to stand up to the electorate and spell out in clear terms we can’t always have what we want…

    Everyone should be given a breakdown of the total cost of their treatment so at least we’re aware of the cost.
    Consider, like charities do, suggesting we make a % contribution to offset that cost.
    Make a contribution obligatory and means test it.
    Consider tax breaks for private care so those who can afford it are encouraged to go private
    Not sure what you do about the majority of the population who’re knowingly creating a burden for the NHS by overeating and doing no exercise – I can’t see a non-contentious way of dealing with that unfortunately…

    As a higher rate taxpayer who’s had 4 operations over the years falling off my bike (i.e. I was partly responsible for the costs the taxpayer paid) I have no problem with that… then taxpayers’ money can go to those who can’t fund it themselves

    ulysse
    Member

    What about them thoughtless twunts who insist on falling off bikes in forrests and on paved rights of way…
    Charge em double

    ulysse
    Member

    Actually, a costed breakdown of treatments and provisions at the end of year seems reasonable, this is what has been deducted from the pot for your care this year….

    jekkyl
    Member

    In the past everyone had an NHS dentist and used NHS opticians, it seems the majority of people who need those services and can pay for it now go private, I know I do. I do think GPs will the next service that will go that way… perhaps fronted by a government backed Private health insurance scheme with tax breaks like pension contributions.

    zokes
    Member

    Easy, change the proposition of ‘free at the point of delivery’ – it’s simply not sustainable,

    It’s very sustainable. Cost per person is far lower than other countries’ privatised or hybrid systems. Having free healthcare means people are more likely to seek help early meaning that treatment is usually far simpler and cheaper than if you wait until you’re really really ill because you didn’t have the money or didn’t want to pay to visit a GP.

    mikedabear
    Member

    End British involvement in overseas conflict.
    End Foreign aid to non democratic countries.

    brooess
    Member

    Having free healthcare means people are more likely to seek help early meaning that treatment is usually far simpler and cheaper than if you wait until you’re really really ill because you didn’t have the money or didn’t want to pay to visit a GP.

    I take your point but how come, if free at point of delivery is so effective at providing good healthcare for a population, we’re one of the least healthy countries in the world when it comes to basic BMI/overweight/obesity…

    Maybe your point is true for acute illness but not for chronic or self-created illness?

    Premier Icon notmyrealname
    Subscriber

    The NHS doesn’t need more money, they just need to spend what they have sensibly rather than pissing and wasting huge amounts of it on things like the ever increasing number of departments with all manner of managers who actually do nothing of any use!

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Limit tax breaks on pension contributions for high earners, schemes like CTW only give relief on the basic tax rates not the higher rates.
    As much as IDS’s single payment benefit thing seems a fiasco getting rid of things like child benefit into one payment seems like a good idea.
    Stay in the EU.

    Raise taxes instead of making cuts.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    they just need to spend what they have sensibly rather than pissing and wasting huge amounts of it on things like

    and as a second more realistic point in some cases it’s the lack of a clear strategic decision making process and the hype and spin around the NHS, what it does etc. where single issues are taken up higher that is causing so many problems.
    Stuff like hospital to home programs which cost more to implement but deliver better overall savings etc. It’s a very long term game being played by very short term thinkers.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    It will get sorted in 20 years time when the population is no longer ageing…

    Eh, I’m going to stop ageing in 20 years?

    Make a contribution obligatory and means test it.

    It is and it is (general taxation).

    samunkim
    Member

    @ notmyrealname Daily Mail reader ?

    Easy, change the proposition of ‘free at the point of delivery’ – it’s simply not sustainable, means we’re not incentivised to look after ourselves and means we take for granted the value it provides – if it’s free, it has no cost… (we believe)

    We already incentivise people to be healthier. We have high tax on cigarettes and alcohol and many people are proposing a high tax on unhealthy foods (though the food industry is lobbying against it).
    Last time I checked the tax on alcohol raised more than the cost to the NHS.

    My mum has lead an incredibly healthy lifestyle and had cancer twice, and been treated on the NHS. I’ve no idea what we’d have done without the NHS. She wouldn’t have been able to afford insurance, certainly not the 2nd time.

    I’m not sure BMI is related to national healthcare… i mean look at USA!

    Premier Icon kayla1
    Subscriber

    Trident and military spending, obviously. No doubt there’ll be some rabid tories and ‘kippers along in a minute to froth about ’empire’ and ‘defending sovereignty’ or AN Other pile of obsolete bollocks while **** over pictures of Maggie pointing a rifle at Ghandi…

    Premier Icon jakehinton
    Subscriber

    Claim taxes from Amazon/Boots/Daily Mail etc?

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    A good start would be to take all the money that the govt wastes on private sector firms like Capita, Serco, ATOS, Virgin etc to do a shit job on pretty much everything they touch, and use the money to fund a fully publicly owned and run, integrated NHS and Social Care system.

    And legalise drugs and ring-fence the taxes collected for NHS and health education.

    Premier Icon notmyrealname
    Subscriber

    @ notmyrealname Daily Mail reader ?

    Anything but.

    Someone who works in the NHS and sees the monumental amount of waste that goes on along with the ever increasing number of pointless managers whose employment provides no benefit whatsoever to staff or patients.

    brooess
    Member

    We already incentivise people to be healthier.

    With 60%+ of the population being overweight or obese then we’re clearly not are we? We may be trying to, but it’s not effective…

    I’ve no idea what we’d have done without the NHS.

    – the debate is about how to provide healthcare at bearable cost – cancer care would still be available under any new scheme. The current free-at-point-of-delivery model is what we’re debating here, not the actual provision of care.

    I’m not sure BMI is related to national healthcare… i mean look at USA!

    – agree to an extent but the extremity of our overweight crisis means the current system clearly is not the most effective one we could have…

    Eh, I’m going to stop ageing in 20 years?

    This isn’t about you, it’s about the population balance overall. In the past, people died in their late 70s overall. Once you’re dead you represent zero cost to the NHS as you have zero healthcare needs.
    Now, people are living much longer – but the later years are in declining health, therefore representing a bigger burden on the NHS at the end of our lives than we used to. Coupled with a big increase in the number of older people, means lots more old people needing lots more care.
    In 20 years time when the Baby Boomers are dead, this problem will go away – when you look at the demographic breakdown in the UK there are fewer people in the younger age groups…

    It is and it is (general taxation).

    But clearly not enough money is being provided by this mechanism with 65% of NHS trusts in deficit in 15/16 (up from 8% in 2009/10)

    oldtalent
    Member

    Foreign aid.
    Benefits for those who see breeding and/or having a ‘bad back’ a lifestyle choice.

    Get rid of the loopholes that allow so many, often with help of accountants, to vastly reduce their tax bill.

    Tax landlords, including live-in landlords, for the whole rent income they receive (so someone cannot use rent as their only source of income to receive their tax free allowance).

    Why are people that earn more, allowed to save more tax on buying a bike (or other salary sacrifice things) through schemes run by their employers? This isn’t going to save the NHS, but surely those on lower incomes should be getting the most benefit from schemes like this.

    If you buy goods through salary sacrifice schemes, such as new bikes, enforce the rules so they must be used according to the rules (for at least 50% of commutes?).

    Stop allowing international companies to have outlets in the UK and then barely pay any tax.

    Start recruiting more UK students to take up medicine places in universities, so more NHS jobs are taken by UK citizens that are not sending money overseas to their extended family?

    Enforce new tax laws that heavily tax car users who use their cars for short journeys of less than five miles, which could (and should IMO) be easily done by bike (or walking, or public transport), creating less pollution and making the UK population healthier (so reducing burden on NHS).

    Re-nationalise the railways; electric grid; BT landline phones; Royal Mail.

    I’m very tired and grumpy today, some of the above might be irrational rubbish. 👿 😉

    zokes
    Member

    I take your point but how come, if free at point of delivery is so effective at providing good healthcare for a population, we’re one of the least healthy countries in the world when it comes to basic BMI/overweight/obesity…

    Maybe your point is true for acute illness but not for chronic or self-created illness?

    Well, there’s a multitude of reasons for that. A lot I suspect comes down to overall mental happiness of a large chunk of the population, and their lack of wealth (measured in time and money). Being fit and eating healthy does actually cost a fair bit compared to oven chips and tv. If you’re a struggling single parent trying to juggle several zero hours contract jobs, keeping your kids out of trouble, fighting with them every mealtime about salad then finding a babysitter so you could just go for a run (pretty cheap as exercise goes) is not exactly stress free.

    tjagain
    Member

    Notmyrealname

    Utter nonsense. The NHS is being deliberately starved of funds. We spend 20-30% less on health care than other countries. Yes the nonsensical structure in England wastes money but the NHS needs more and better quality management and significant more funding

    fin25
    Member

    The NHS is failing because it’s not allowed to operate on a level playing field. People are sold shit to eat and drink all day, they take little or no responsibility for their health, then they get ill, so the NHS has to pick up the mess.
    Big drug companies are able to massively over inflate and fix drug prices, forcing the NHS to fork out huge sums of money.
    Many NHS hospitals were coerced into ridiculous PFI contracts to try to modernise which they can no longer afford.
    When an NHS trust does fail, it is replaced with Virgin Care, who other trusts now have to compete with to provide a lot of NHS services.

    The NHS and late stage Capitalism are not compatible. People need to choose between one or the other. Or we could just do what we always do, wait for the decision to be made for us, then moan about it after the fact.

    twinw4ll
    Member

    Cakes, biscuits, pies, pizzas and alcohol, it’s the dumb ass overweight folk who are sinking the bloody nhs.

    Can’t we copy the Scottish model – its much better up there under a centre left government isn’t it?

    Crisis and war aside, we are close to record levels of public spending as a percentage of GDP, with health only slightly below its 7.9% peak and still forecast to be 7% by 2020.

    Still if we want to cut, we know what the big bills are: pensions, (then health) then welfare. Take your pick!

    Never forget our £350m though…..

    The NHS needs root and branch reform. It was created to suit a very different country and demographic and hasn’t changed since and structurally is unsustainable. I’m all for pumping more money into the NHS but not in its current form – its a waste of tax payers money which is a precious and limited commodity.

    Trident won’t even put a dent in the NHS – the whole 40 year life cycle cost of trident is estimate to be around £100bn, which is not much more than one year’s NHS budget. The NHS has to be sustainable and not rely on ever increasing % of GDP being pumped into it or we’ll just continue to roll on from one NHS crisis to the next.

    I really don’t see what’s wrong with taking a lead from other nations who don’t have a US style privatised system, but have a system that is free at the point of use and does utilise more private sector involvement. they may pay more into their health service than we do, but that is not the answer. It is terribly arrogant and naive to think the NHS is the ultimate health service. Its not. Its failing despite receiving more money than it ever has.

    The answer is not to divert more money to it. Defence/security take the ultimate precedent over anything. Without a safe and secure society then we’re screwed.

    Of course it doesn’t help having an increasing head wind of one trillion pounds of debt that costs us over £43bn a year just to pay the interest on that debt and until we get our structural deficit sorted so we make more money than we spend then we’re always going to struggle. I’m not against the country carrying debt, but not when our structural deficit is in such crappy state. Austerity has reduced the structural deficit by two thirds but that is not enough as until that has been eliminated then our national debt will always be increasing. I’m just not sure how much longer we can stand austerity. We should have gone far deeper earlier to eliminate the deficit alot quicker, a short term gain for long term pain strategy. I just can’t see how we’ll get ourselves on an even keel until we sort out the structural deficit.

    Premier Icon totalshell
    Subscriber

    cut trident .. thats save 200bn over the next 13 years or roughley 18bn a year.. on the downside 5000 folks are out of work and we no longer have a nuclear deterrent..

    what else you gonna cut.. biggest spendng per annum is far and away pensions.. who and by how much.. your grannies .. mine.. hers..

    next up working age benifits.. who and by how much

    cuts of a couple of wuid here and there make ZERO difference cuts to pay for the nhs have to be deep.. deeper than anything ever condiered before..

    oh tax the rich and banks .. those ll be the banks that opening offices in the eu to avoid having to pay taxes in a post brexit uk and the rich folks? how rich is rich and if you ve to make 30 billion a year it ll be a fair old wedge from each one.. there are 615000 millionaires on paper at least in the uk divide up the 30 billion a year between them and thats just shy of 50k each every year.. they ll be falling over themselves in the rush to pay it pay it

    RichPenny
    Member

    Why bother? Society would be financially better off if the poor die younger.

    I meant a short term pain for long term gain!

    bol
    Member

    Income tax. 50% at circa £100k and 60% at £150k. Not sure that would fully cover it, but it would certainly help. And a fair old chunk of it going into social care (or properly combine health and social care budgets.

    Why top at 60%? Tax the buggers, none of them deserve it. It’s an outrage.

    jekkyl
    Member

    so.. get rid of grannies, fatties and trident and sort out the taxation system for business and personal income properly.. anything else? 🙂

    glasgowdan
    Member

    “Defence”.
    Healthcare for smoking or overeating related illnesses.
    Town improvement plans.
    Council and government officials.
    Subsidised policing of events such as football matches.
    50% of blue badges.
    The £40 shopping voucher and £200 fuel allowance for all pensioners…they should find a cheap way of at least cutting these gifts to the well-off.
    Erm, lots more that I can’t think of right now. But a LOT of the unnecessary spending that local councils do.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    The royals

    Premier Icon dallas95
    Subscriber

    HS2.
    Biggest waste of public money ever.

    Trident.
    Never going to be used.

    House of Lords.
    Don’t need them interfering.

Viewing 45 posts - 1 through 45 (of 503 total)

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