After the horrendous number of COVID deaths and those left with disabilities, loads of amazing ordinary people stepping up putting their lives at risk to help others – from staff in hospitals and care homes, shop workers and loads of others to people helping out neighbours and friends and volunteering to help those they don’t know – thinking this is one of those rare moments like the end of WW2 where there could be a real chance of change to a more friendly, fairer, compassionate and ultimately happier country. WWSTWD?

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Ooh, this is quite cathartic, maybe weeksy is right 😃

there could be a real chance of change to a more friendly, fairer, compassionate and ultimately happier country

Well that’d be nice, but I think it’ll the exact opposite. My major takeaway from this last year is just how depressingly and disappointingly horrible the general public are.

Selfish is that selfish does.

I thought about starting a similar thread a while back but didn’t know how to phrase it. Went for a walk to go shopping to get it figured out in my brain and by the time I got back I had realised that it’ll take no time at all for large parts of the population to go straight back to the old ways and all the lessons of the last year to be completely forgotten. Things like everyone saying it’s so much better with less traffic, litter and time to talk to each other. The second they could though everyone was back in their cars, litter re-appeared everywhere and it’s all a mad rush again.

…thinking this is one of those rare moments like the end of WW2 where there could be a real chance of change to a more friendly, fairer, compassionate and ultimately happier country. WWSTWD?

More like the entitled and careless people will still outnumber the others and continue to slowly take over our society.

Itll revert back.

I’m not overly enamoured with the behaviour of huge chunks of society.

scotland will become independent and become a normal european social democratic country. england will push on towards fascism. wales will have to make its choice. NI will rejoin the south

We presently have a government who have lavished billions and billions on their rich friends in the most corrupt manner imaginable, while further starving the public sector of funds

Most people don’t even seemed to have noticed, and if they have, they don’t seem remotely arsed about. They don’t seem to have noticed or care about a 40% reduction in exports to the EU either.

The government at riding high in the polls due to the vaccination programme

Given all that, I wouldn’t hold your breath for any change for the better

Definately a two tier system for the newly sold Private Health Service. You’ll be treated if you can afford it, if not…who knows.

Personally, I think, if there’s any “society” still around to look back at this period of time, it will be viewed at the turning point towards some very dark times.

Back to where we were, deteriorating rapidly whilst being told we are thriving. No lessons will be learnt.

Metal health service was falling to bits before this, cut to the bone over the part decade. Very few safety nets left and many will fall through the holes.

NHS will not be funded to cope with the patient back log and continued covid fight into the future whilst we are still told it has huge funding increases.

Mass exodus from the NHS over mental health, pay, conditions and never ending pressure. Those places less likely to be filled by overseas workers due to the obvious.

People terrified of losing their jobs so will not complain at ever degraded rights in the work place.

The middle class also being hit this time likely as much as the poor. The middle class likely to become the new “elites” they need to be brought down. The usual suspects will be targeted too obviously, those on benefits, those not born here etc etc.

The rich will get very rich, the poor? Hell you know.

should or will?

I think we’ve got the worst possible government in my lifetime to deal with the situation we face. Brexit got the ball rolling and they haven’t had the skills to manage the covid pandemic. It’s likley they’ll revert to type and try and skim as much money for themselves while looking for scapegoats to blame.

Should, look at how we treat people in society. We realised that those low skilled workers we treat badly are actually essential to the smooth operation of our country. Living wage would be a good start. Also some benefit reform – turns out not everyone on benefits is a scrounger and misfortune can hit any of us at any time.

Also occasionally wonder about the point Onzadog makes – on the run in to things like wars at what point do people realise they’d gathered too much momentum to steer clear? Rise of nationalism is a worry. Although it was positive that Trump got the boot and things in the USA seem boring right now.

The cynic in me feels that the political comments above are probably right However

More like the entitled and careless people will still outnumber the others and continue to slowly take over our society.

I think that the last year has actually shown that they are a minority. Most people have quietly gone about doing the right thing, and helped friends and colleagues and neighbours when required. It’s too easy to focus on the visible minority, make them the centre of attention, and develop a cynical distrust of the population.

It’s a shame that the decent, silent majority can’t be unified politically to help the country move forward in a fairer, more just and humane society.

scotland will become independent and become a normal european social democratic country. england will push on towards fascism. wales will have to make its choice. NI will rejoin the south

I only hope that Wales goes down the ‘normal European social democratic route’ so I don’t have to move very far to join in. I doubt it though – the South Wales valleys are UKIP hotspots.

The pandemic and lockdown has shown that people can be flexible and do things differently. It’s easy to fall for the headlines and think that’s how it is and will be. It’s also easy to get stuck in your own rut. There are loads or potential positives, we just need to find a way to grab them and move in the right direction.

What should it be like? A better appreciation, pay and benefits for workers in the health sector and so called menial jobs. The pandemic has also proven that lots of folks can work from home productively. Therefore a better work/life balance should be struck. Flexible working, fewer hours worked, less commuting, more time for family, hobbies, just living life in general etc.

What will it be like? Back to how it was pre-pandemic in about three months of lockdown ending.

Nickjb makes a good point – this country still has the potential to make changes for the better (more efficient taxation, UBI, investment in public services) to tackle inequality, health (physical and mental) and respond to climate change. My concern is that the current govt don’t give a s*** and this will be an opportunity lost .

Well that’d be nice, but I think it’ll the exact opposite. My major takeaway from this last year is just how depressingly and disappointingly horrible the general public are.

This.

More like the entitled and careless people will still outnumber the others and continue to slowly take over our society.

I have seen no real evidence that the vast majority have learned a **** thing.

#edit

Very much this,

My concern is that the current govt don’t give a s*** and this will be an opportunity lost .

Everything will go back to normal very quickly with low paid workers continuing to be exploited on wages that leave them needing benefits. Benefits claimants will go back to being stigmatised and derided as scroungers, but there will be more of them than before all trying to get the few low paid, zero hours jobs that are available. The rich will continue to hoard unimaginable wealth away from taxation and the Tories will continue to allow them whilst saying that they want a highly educated, well paid work force. They’ll forget that the vast majority of jobs in this economy are low pay, part time service and retail jobs

If Airlines are anything to go by as aspirations for environmental and employment improvements, they’ll be keen to get as many planes back in the sky asap. At the same time, pilots who were made redundant on healthy salaries are going back on much lower pay and worse conditions. I’m sure it will still be a healthy salary in the scheme of things, but I’m not sure longer hours and more stress are conditions I’d like the pilot of any flight I go on to be under.

‘Deregulate the labour market, embark on a new austerity programme by firstly cutting the pay of the NHS employees, new laws to stop annoying demonstrations and pickets, free builders from planning restrictions, provide opportunities for landlords and the newly homeless, ‘think tanks’ become a permanent paid-for feature of the civil service, more weapons to beat the front-line workers, blame the travellers, back to the 80s, confuse and passify them with identity politics, the parliamentary parties become a branch of the advertising industry….’

What will it be like?

STW chat forum will still be a game of competitive pessimism, as evidenced by the above.

Should be like? No idea, glad I’m not in charge.

It’ll be exactly like the financial crisis, the best that the people making the big decisions can dream of is putting things back exactly how they were, back to that utopia of 2019. Don’t expect anything else.

I think the only big change is likely to be home working for a lot of people. And of course more people being generally poorer and less secure.

Nah, not pessimistic (hence the inverted commas) but I’m sadly old enough to have seen all this before. People need to understand that Priti has given a taste of what’s to come if they do fight to achieve a better country.

STW chat forum will still be a game of competitive pessimism

Here’s your chance… outline how things will be better, and who will instigate those improvements….

One thing I am hopeful for is that the increase in walking and cycling will continue. I know from my own work that direct engagement with nature and community leads to pro-sustainable/pro-environmental behaviours; it leads to happier, healthier and more socially aware people. I just don’t know how many will sustain this activity and engagement.

As an aside, does anyone here know of a neighbour or family member who have increased their outdoor exercise? If so, what is their take on things?

As an aside, does anyone here know of a neighbour or family member who have increased their outdoor exercise? If so, what is their take on things?

My mum, mid sixties, fake hip following an accident, is walking an hour a day, just to get out of the house. (incidently, her vaccine is today)
Intends to continue, says she feels better and has lost weight.
Discussing things she can do to stay/be more active once things open up.

Conversely, my Dad, I will likely be saying Covid “killed” him. He wasn’t exactly the pillar of health before but it seems this last year and especially winter he is just in a cycle of armchair, paper, red wine, repeat; and he has a list of ailments as long as your arm. Very much doubt he will ever escape this cycle now.

Here’s your chance… outline how things will be better, and who will instigate those improvements…

Don’t know which politician or paper coined – or rather reused – roaring twenties, but here’s hoping that opening back up gives us a chance to spend and create jobs, grow the <whispers> economy </> to get the country back to its feet, and then we can practically have a grownup discussion of things like minimum wage increases and sensible working hours contracts, as well as revamping the benefits system to match.

Some gentle financial nudges towards greener behavior, and – if this is not considered to be too out there – population control.

But I’m not hopeful on this last one, as population growth is sadly a good and easy driver for economci growth

My major takeaway from this last year is just how depressingly and disappointingly horrible the general public are.

Not exactly. You only hear about the horrible people. There aren’t headlines all over the news saying ‘Cardiff couple spent all day at home again despite nice weather’ are there?

Same for social media. Only opinionated arseholes post shite on comments pages. Nearly everyone is just muddling along following the rules. Our local community FB page can have a bit of a bicker just like anywhere else, but it’s been chock full of people helping each other out during lockdown.

One thing it has done though is bring devolution forward in people’s minds. I don’t think any Welsh FM has ever got anything like this much airtime.

This point has already been made above: we currently have the worst possible government to instigate any form of change for the better. Even a Tory government under someone like Rory Stewart or even, FGS, Dave Cameron would have offered the possibility of a more positive and progressive future. I think we’ll get the reverse, a swift and ruthless realignment that will see us lose rights (in addition to those we’ve lost already through Brexit), protections and any sort of hope for a better country for the next generation. Happy Monday everybody!

ok – here’s how it could be

Tax efficiency reform, get rid of all the crazily complex tax rules that enable offshoring and
UBI – restructure the tax rules as part of the implementation, give people the agency to live their lives, carers, the arts, get people off the low pay/benefit trap etc
wealth taxes for the richest 1percent and land taxes
refund councils to deliver services including schools, health, etc
reform of business rates to enable small businesses and revitalising the high streets
Housing reform – massive penalties for multiple owners including landlords, all uk house owners to be an individual with a registered UK address (not dodgy unnamed trusts as in london..)
housing control given back to councils – make it law for all new build plots to be sold with a stated plot, design and open to all not just fields sold to big developers with no control – houses build to green standards with no domestic gas etc.
Councils to provide council owned, controlled social housing not ‘affordable’
Green investment – road pricing, implementation of bus services and priority for bikes and walking, onshore wind (uk build turbines) and solar and tidal.
get shot of HS2 and spend the money on the existing lines, get buses (as per above) to deliver local services where the local rail gets in the way of the eastcoast/westcoast mainline services
stop privatising the NHS, give the nurses and doctors a proper payrise.
Get rid of FPTP, reform the house of lords, join the EU customs union and EFTA.
get the Monarchy to slim down and reform including getting rid of all the wealth hoarding and return land to the country for planting trees and generating clean power (stop them creaming money from offshore wind etc). Because if not, republicanism, their choice.

probably loads of other stuff too – er judicial reform, written constitution and bill of rights, UK citizens not subjects. less testing in schools…

here’s how it could be

Who will instigate those improvements…?

Population is an interesting and difficult one. The neo-liberals love migration for providing cheap labour and reducing local labour rates whilst keeping up demand for housing and retail plus it’s good for divide-and-rule. The failure to integrate immigrants is very visible in its consequences in cities across Europe.

The neo-liberals love migration for providing cheap labour and reducing local labour rates

Please evidence that it’s had any significant impact on all but the lowest wage bands, which could be improved by increasing the national minimum wage.

whilst keeping up demand for housing and retail plus it’s good for divide-and-rule

Oh yeah, as if that problem isn’t our nimbyism.

The failure to integrate immigrants is very visible in its consequences in cities across Europe.

Personally – I love London, Paris and Berlin as opposed to some shithole like Carlisle.

Not exactly. You only hear about the horrible people. There aren’t headlines all over the news saying ‘Cardiff couple spent all day at home again despite nice weather’ are there?

Same for social media. Only opinionated arseholes post shite on comments pages. Nearly everyone is just muddling along following the rules. Our local community FB page can have a bit of a bicker just like anywhere else, but it’s been chock full of people helping each other out during lockdown.

You and I really haven’t got the hang of this competitive pessimism have we?

Blimey, you only need to go to Leicester to find abject wage slavery benefiting clothing retailers. The blame is on the bosses not the workers. I love Paris but I don’t love seeing all those poor souls stranded in the streets and stations.

Blimey, you only need to go to Leicester to find abject wage slavery benefiting clothing retailers. The blame is on the bosses not the workers.

No, the blame is on government enforcement and poor institutional power.

I love Paris but I don’t love seeing all those poor souls stranded in the streets and stations.

Which is also, not an issue with neo-liberal migration per se – but how it is managed.

That is how it’s managed. The government policies have ‘supported’ business by cutting inspectors to the point where a business can expect a visit every 200 years. It’s government policy not a failure to impose it.
Scandinaviam countries seem better at providing housing, training and education and getting a job. It is possible.

+1

government policy

Yes, leading to poor institutional power.