Transition Patrol may fit the bill?

Good article on pinkbike today. Right on cue 😀

I’d love to put a geometry ‘expert’ (wearing a dog’s cone collar from the vets) on some bikes. Find out if they really can feel a horst link! Ask them the steering angle and rake!

I’m not convinced everyone would know the wheel size.

I’m not convinced everyone would know the wheel size.

You should at least between 26 and 29 the bike will ride very differently.

Anyway back to the original question, I dunno why people rush off to these weird brands when the big ones have you covered with some quality bikes e.g. Trek Remedy

really? A typical 29er hardtail will ride loads differently to a 650b enduro bike, sure.
But how much of that is wheel size?

A stone hitting the tyre a few mm’s further up the 29er…

vs – head tube angle vastly different, rake / trail, height of bars, stem length, CoG of rider on the bike etc…

And wheel size is something most people think they can feel.

What about that horst link?

“I like horst links”

Does that statement even make sense?

Single pivot, virtual pivot, how is the shock compressed? There’s so many parts of the suspension design that would affect the bike other than the horst link

A sensibly-designed horst link bike vs a sensibly- designed single pivot. That’s what he means. Obviously. It’s almost like you’re being intentionally obtuse.

pjbarton – Member

“I like horst links”

Best of all the animals

IME on a 29er you can really feel the gyroscopic stability, which like everything has its pros and cons.

Superficial

A sensibly-designed horst link bike vs a sensibly- designed single pivot. That’s what he means. Obviously. It’s almost like you’re being intentionally obtuse.

Good old Singletrackworld; if you dismiss a £3000 bike because it’s cheap or common well that’s fine. Dismiss it based on empirical personal preference and a healthy dose of logic and people clamour to rip you apart.

Geometry is important, well that’s sacrilege. Test ride a bike, ridiculous. Try to understand how it works, laughable. Magazine reviews are less than perfect, liar. Worst of all, dare to suggest that advancements in frame geometry is actually a good thing, well that’s blasphemy right there in a land where people mock the idea of 50mm stems and bars wider than 710 are laughable and will see you stuck in the trees.

“IME on a 29er you can really feel the gyroscopic stability, which like everything has its pros and cons.”

Yep, but weight would play a major part in gyroscopic effect too. How would a heavier 650b feel compared to a lighter 29er for instance? I’m not sure.

“Obviously. It’s almost like you’re being intentionally obtuse.”

Not at all, just pointing out the myriad variables in bike design and rider influence – literally thousands of aspects coming together to influence the ‘ride’.

Pulling out single aspects and angrily attacking / defending them is nonsense.

Anyway back to the original question, I dunno why people rush off to these weird brands when the big ones have you covered with some quality bikes e.g. Trek Remedy

This.
The bigger brands (although far from infallible) generally put out some great bikes…they have the R&D budget, the pro test riders etc….and the end result is usually very polished, rides brilliantly and due to economy of scale comes in at a reasonable price too….whats not to like?

Obviously everyone is different and some riders do genuinely want to help a new firm like ‘Bird’ get a foothold in the market, after all competition and choice is a good thing….but so many riders want to be different for the sake of being different, there’s an element of ‘look at me’ about their bike choice….’see how much of a connoisseur i am?!’….even though the bike they’re on is effectively being tested by the buying public due to limited R&D from the companies in question.

I had an (almost) unlimited amount to spend on my last FS, i’m not rich i’d just been saving and had the credit card ready also….i looked at British made, i love the industrial lines of an Orange-5, i liked the idea of the start-up Bird company….i love Nukeproof’s stuff and for a 14st rider like me they seem built like tanks…i even canvassed opinion on here and was met with all the usual leftfield suggestions, Canfield this, Salsa that, Evil the other etc….Transition and Banshee pricked my interest and may be an option when i buy a DH bike next year but in the end i went for a….Giant.

Haha, why?!….i test rode one and was blown away.

The rear suspension is fantastic and really has had some magic worked into it (they can thank Dave Weagle for that but its a touchy litigious subject!), it actually firms up under pedalling….none of that horrible bobbing that seemed to plague other bikes i’d tested….the Alu mix Giant use seems impossibly light and i liked the fact i can swap between 140mm, 150mm and 160mm forks depending on what kind of riding i’m doing and Giant are fine with that and will honour the warranty….it has a normal tapered head tube, helicoiled post mount rear brake fittings, 135×10 or 142×12 dropouts that are easily interchangeable….and as a bonus they chucked in one of their own brand Giant Contact dropper posts…i also like the fact i walked into the shop to buy it, visited again recently to have the BB fitted (fitting was free, all i did was buy the hatefull pressfit thing)…..so here i am out on the trails on a mass produced aluminium trail/enduro machine that is about as grey and anonymous as these things get, its even grey and black in colour!….but i dont care, it rides beautifully, has a comprehensive warranty and excellent main dealer back-up should i need it…..any money i have burning a hole in my pocket i’ll spend on the best brakes and drivetrain i can get at the time as that will make more of a difference to me than whether the bike is ‘on trend’ with it’s ETT/reach/whatever measurements!

Jimjam, your problem isn’t necessarily what you are saying, it’d hour you are saying it that gets a negative reaction!

It’s almost as if

[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hnTmBjk-M0c[/video]

but i dont care, it rides beautifully, has a comprehensive warranty and excellent main dealer back-up should i need it…..any money i have burning a hole in my pocket i’ll spend on the best brakes and drivetrain i can get at the time as that will make more of a difference to me than whether the bike is ‘on trend’ with it’s ETT/reach/whatever measurements!

You see – this ^^^^ just comes across as yet another ‘why my bike choice is superior to other people’s’ post. Thought I would agree that some people on here dislike stuff purely for being popular/mainstream. I’d love an Enduro Expert Carbon but there’s no way I’m going to spend £3500-£4000 on a bike.

Dismiss it based on empirical personal preference and a healthy dose of logic and people clamour to rip you apart.

You’re confusing your own personal opinions with objective facts. It’s a common problem on here. Everything about bikes is so subjective and when confirmation bias comes into play too it’s impossible to make the kind of sweeping statements you are making with such certainty. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing…..

I’d love to put a geometry ‘expert’ (wearing a dog’s cone collar from the vets) on some bikes. Find out if they really can feel a horst link! Ask them the steering angle and rake!

I’m not convinced everyone would know the wheel size.

Exactly – if there was a way of doing blind bike testing I think we’d quickly see how much pseudo-technical bollocks gets talked about bikes.

@ grum, but if you follow your logic it would be impossible to explain why you chose a particular bike, political party, religion, football team ect, without implying your choice is superior and everyone else is wrong.
Deviant can wax lyrical about his Giant all he likes. It doesn’t suggest my choice was wrong only that for him he bought the right bike.

No but it’s the fact that he’s suggesting that he’s just bought the bike he likes whereas other people are buying them for spurious reasons.

so many riders want to be different for the sake of being different, there’s an element of ‘look at me’ about their bike choice….’see how much of a connoisseur i am?!’

Maybe true in some cases, but by saying ‘look I don’t care about all that stuff see’ it’s just another fashion statement: ‘I’m cool because I don’t care about being cool’.

I agree inverted snobbery exists on here in spades 😆 but so much of the talk is about boutique bikes, there’s probably a feeling you have to somehow justify a more rational choice.

i haven’t read all 8 (!) pages, but what about a liteville 301?

New Five might not be the cheapest option, but it’s a bloody mint bike, especially for the Pennines and year-round riding. Robust, versatile, sorted angles, proven and ridiculously fun to ride.

Capra – a mate has one and it’s nice enough. Not massively lighter than the Five though really, even though it’s carbon. Pivots everywhere. And I wouldn’t touch the Boss version with a bargepole – disaster waiting to happen.

Edit: just seen this, too. Might be a rare thing, but YT’s response/solution is possibly something worth bearing in mind if you don’t like being bikeless.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/yt-capra-woes

Don’t they service Boss here in the UK now though ?

Its the e13 wheels Id not want on it.

i haven’t read all 8 (!) pages

You haven’t missed much, just me and JimJam bickering.

Nothing particularly constructive, so I wouldn’t waste your time.

This thread has made me want that Specialized Enduro posted up near the beginning. Thanks thread.

On-One Codeine 27.5 £2000 – seems like a bargain

Trimix – happened to be in a shop about 2 days ago and they were bemoaning the crappy support for the broken Boss forks they were fixing. Seems some things never change. Personally, I reckon Fox and Rockshox are good enough for anyone really, unless they’re obsessed with bling or only ever ride their bike inside a NASA clean room.

This thread has made me not want to change my S Works Enduro, never understood geometry at school and reading all this hasn’t helped. It does everything I want it to do and I think it looks good.

Crikey, that Spesh must be quick, you’ve got a parachute on your back!! 😯

Defo not Enduro!

😉

Its a crash mat for when I fall. Abigales is faster but I cant work out why. Might it be the geometry.

Waiting for the chute to open.

😆

You know when you ask a question and then part of you wishes you hadn’t bothered? 😉

What you need is a Cotic Soul. Ticks all the boxes.. I think..

Had one – thought it was distinctly average.

Thanks tomaso for actually suggesting something along the lines of what I want – I’ll look into the Patrols…

Codeine looks ok but by **** its ugly. Marzocchi forks must be an even bigger unknown than BOS are (which, incidentally, I’ve been running for about 2 years on my Five with no maintenance and no issues – they’re awesome and I’d have another BOS equipped bike in an instant).

DaveyBoyWonder – Member
You know when you ask a question and then part of you wishes you hadn’t bothered?

I wish you hadn’t bothered!

It’s all your fault, I’m sure me and JJ would have got on like a house on fire if you hadn’t asked such a ridiculous question!

It’s clearly ridiculous because the YT is the only possible answer!

(JOKE!!!!)

Codeine looks ok but by **** its ugly. Marzocchi forks must be an even bigger unknown than BOS are (which, incidentally, I’ve been running for about 2 years on my Five with no maintenance and no issues – they’re awesome and I’d have another BOS equipped bike in an instant).

I know Marzocchi lost their way a bit a wee while ago, but aren’t they back on the up?

I’ve cancelled my order for the small Capra – not ordered the medium yet but I’m still planning to.

Not massively lighter than the Five though really, even though it’s carbon.

How much does a 5 weigh? There’s some seriously optimistic build weights going on in this thread if you ask me: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/orange-five-buildsweights-show-and-tell

Thing is, for those of us who have to pay RRP for Orange ( 😉 ) you’re talking about paying at least £1000 more to get a similarly specced bike aren’t you? (and yes I know spec isn’t everything).

And call me shallow if you like but I just thing 5s are a bit ugly and I like the looks of the Capra, especially in that blue. I know it shouldn’t matter that much but if I’m gonna shell out a load of money on something I want to look at it and thing ‘yeah!’ not ‘mmm I suppose it looks quite good for filing cabinet’ 🙂

How much does a 5 weigh? There’s some seriously optimistic build weights going on in this thread if you ask me: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/orange-five-buildsweights-show-and-tell

To be fair, it’s not just Orange specific, it’s near enough every brand on here 🙂

I’m sure some people weigh a bike, then take ~4lbs off it & think, yeah, that sounds plausable.

(24.5lb Reign owner)

I jest.

Bloody hell lads. Group hug?

Anyway, let me first say that the last 8 pages have enlightened me no end. I’ll address the elephant in the room (sorry Jim). I first encountered JJ many moons ago when I got back into mountain biking on a local MTB forum. Who’s this knob jockey, I thought. Then I met him on his bike, and a thoroughly nice chap he is! And despite what some people think, he is very knowledgeable. He jusy has his own special way of telling you.

I agree with JJ in principle. I once owned a Commencal Meta. Bought it because it was a good offer and it had double expansion front and back. My God it had a short reach, and a back end more loose than George Michael in the outside lane of the M25. I looked at the numbers before getting a new bike. Makes sense. Long wheelbase, short(ish) chainstays, slightly slacker HA, steeper SA, longer reach. Bajaysus it felt a lot more comfortable than the Meta. So in summary, a review of the numbers compared to what I was used to paid dividends. However, the Meta felt fun on the steep bits and when it got a handy rowdy, and that was because it was short and a bit wobbly. So, horses for courses. I prefer the Mega because it is more comfortable more of the time, and yellow is faster than white.

Nice shout on the Transition. Had a spin on one and it felt really nice. Climbed like a goat too.

st colin
Bloody hell lads. I’ll address the elephant in the room Jim). I first encountered JJ many moons ago when I got back into mountain biking on a local MTB forum. Who’s this knob jockey. Then I met him. And despite what some people think, He’s just special

Wanna fight 😀

Bare bellies in the car park!

Ha, that Vitus on the first page looks kind of cool – don’t know much about them though. I haven’t checked out the kinematics or the geometry yet. 😉 Only 135mm travel at the back though.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes-escarpe-pro-suspension-bike-2015/rp-prod124011

I wouldn’t worry about the 135mm on the back.

I’m still astonished that people think you need 160mm travel.

It’s not about ‘need’ though is it. 🙂

I do sometimes do uplift days and take my bike to the Alps/Pyrenees plus I’m a big lad so it feels nice being on a big bike. That Vitus is probably more suitable for most of the riding I do though.