A bit of a goldilocks question this one…

Thinking about buying a new jacket for road riding (mtb is catered for) but stuck for what is going to be the best compromise.  At the moment I the only jacket I have is a Rapha Pro Team Lightweight Wind Jacket, which is really good, but no insulation and not waterproof.  In colder weather (such as today) I wear it over a l/s jersey and can layer another base layer if needed.  I don’t tend to get a cold core as run pretty hot.

I do have a thicker GORE windstopper which I’ve hardly worn as it feels a bit thick for my preference (and I’m not keen on the red colour) – I’ll be selling this.

I’m wondering whether to get something for when the weather gets colder (too cold for the Lightweight Jacket) as I plan to ride more this winter, plus also could do with something more water resistant as sometimes get caught out.

I’m getting stuck between whether to get something like another less thick windproof, or whether to just get a waterproof.  I’m also worried about overheating with something too thick, or buying something which is better at being waterproof than insulated / breathable or visa-versa (ie i’d like both).

What do I actually want (that doesn’t need a second mortgage – I like Rapha gear but tend to scout around for bargains / 2nd hand)?

Does sound like Goldilocks it you want breathability of windstopper and better waterproofing.

I have an Endura top with windproof fronting “printed” on somehow which is perfect just now but doubt it’s that breathable or waterproof but it’s lighter than my windstopper ones that are a bit hot just now. I do feel that windproofing at the front only is a good and inexpensive.

Everyone is racing about shakedry but I’ve spent enough on various boil in the bag waterproofs in the past to try one

Castelli Alpha ROS light is just about the most versatile jacket around.

Isn’t it a bit of a tall ask, one jacket to do everything?

For me windstopper for cool/cold dry. Gore-Tex for cold and wet (or stay at home)

I’ve been wearing an Assos Mille GT Jacket Ultraz Winter For the past 6 weeks and like it a lot. Not too thick, compared to some soft shells so doesn’t wet out from sweat, as I can run hot. Wear it with a very thin ss base.
Copes well with a bit of rain. May need second mortgage though unless you find a deal.

For versatility i favour a thinner windstopper style jersey that you can layer under (Castelli Perfetto etc) and then carry an emergency rain cape if rain looks likely. Done over 5000 miles so far this year, and I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve required the rain cape.

Perfetto was fine down to 4 degrees on Thurs night, and I still had the vents open at that (ls baselayer underneath)

I’d look at something like this – I have the short sleeve version (Sentinel) and with arm warmers and a base layer it’s plenty warm enough down to where I’m more concerned about potential for ice that whether the jacket’s warm enough (and I could put a merino layer under if I needed it)

https://galibier.cc/product/mistral-foul-iv-weather-jacket/

It won’t hold up in an absolute downpour, but doesn’t get sodden and cold and if you’re out in a downpour and close to zero on the road I’d be questioning sanity rather than jacket choice. You could put another shell over the top though to add another water resistant layer I guess.

The more I mull this over I’m thinking windproof with an element of water resistance as I’m not one to intentionally go out in the rain and perhaps look for a packable rain shell to complement it. I’m thinking I need pockets too so I don’t need a shirt underneath.

For the money the Galibier looks good, but I’m tempted by the Rapha team training jacket which is a bit more but looks nicer and sees to fit the bill. The Assos and Castelli also look good but even more spendy.

Castelli Perfetto and just vary the thickness of thermal you wear underneath it.

Perfetto was fine down to 4 degrees on Thurs night, and I still had the vents open at that (ls baselayer underneath)

I don’t find the vents make a lot of difference, mine are permanently undone and I never notice the breeze from them…

Perfetto fits the bill if layered up – SS bas layer if not really cold, colder long sleeve HH, colder still long sleeve merino, etc etc…. Inc the use of a gilet.

Heavy rain when you are out a packable rain-shell.

This has been my most used jacket since I’ve. Ought it.

@razorrazoo I’d avoid the Rapha Shadow jerseys. Had one and wasn’t impressed by how fast it wetted out for a supposedly highly water-resistant jacket.
To slightly threadJack, and the reason I came into this thread; I’m looking for a waterproof jacket for road riding for those rides of several hours in the rain. I’ve been using a Rapha race cape but something more vented would be good. Even on an Audax pace I’ll be a sweat monster.

Thanks, good to know  I think I’ve decided to go with windproof with DWR rather than a ‘proper’ waterproof.  Had seen a shadow jersey so will now avoid.

How does Castelli size up?  I’m a large in Rapha Core / Classic.

The answer to all jacket questions is Gore-Tex shakedry.

Can you recommend me a jacket that’s black, sweaty and expensive?

The answer to all jacket questions is Gore-Tex shakedry.

Is this not what softshell is for?

And something tiny tucked in the pocket for emergency rain protection.

Or a full waterproof shell if its already raining hard/definitely going to rain hard.

My softshell even sheds its sleeves for a gilet. Its pretty versatile.

Another vote for the Perfetto. Best jacket I’ve ever had

The water resistance is excellent, water beads off like a proper waterproof yet it breathes well

Easy to layer underneath to keep comfortable down to 5deg ish and then a gilet over the top extends comfort down to freezing point.

Last ride I did (which I realise now I probably did whilst brewing COVID…explains the hollow legs!) was 4-5C 20 mile cx ride. Perfetto, thin short sleeved sweat vest (I wear that all year round) and long sleeved base layer. Rode in rain shower for 15 mins and dried out fine. Was warm for the whole ride (including the Perfetto equivalent tights). Rapha core waterproof in back pocket should the rain have been more.

In women’s I’m a large in both Rapha core and Castelli.

Have an alpha ROS for those really cold days and a perfetto ROS for the autumn or mild winter days. The alpha ROS has some nice features that help a lot in cooler temperatures such as the cuffs and the abilityof unzip for further cooling but retain the underayer. Asa general all-rounder perfetto can cover more bases for moreof the year though especially as said with a range of base layers.

Have a look at the Stolen Goat Orkaan.

These jerseys have water resistance woven into the fabric so it doesn’t need reproofing. The fabric is Tempest produced by Biorace.

Review here.

Message me direct if you want a 30% off code.

I have just popped a couple on the classifieds – a Castelli Alpha ROS and a Sportful Fiandre, both mint, in XL.. 😁

I find a long sleeved thermal, a soft shell and a waterproof gillet does me for pretty much everything. Often carry a cheap waterproof, rarely wear it.

Have an alpha ROS for those really cold days and a perfetto ROS for the autumn or mild winter days.

Same here.

Used the Alpha for the first time today, as it hadn’t been cold enough before. Lovely and toasty inside, a really nice jacket for cold, damp rides.

How does Castelli size up? I’m a large in Rapha Core / Classic.

Same, I’m large in Castelli and Rapha – although I find Rapha sizing very random, you can order two items in the same nominal size and they are miles apart in size.

I find a long sleeved thermal, a soft shell and a waterproof gillet does me for pretty much everything. Often carry a cheap waterproof, rarely wear it.

Also been pondering this myself.  A thinner more water resistant wind proof over my long sleeve jersey.

Same, I’m large in Castelli and Rapha – although I find Rapha sizing very random, you can order two items in the same nominal size and they are miles apart in size.

I think this is classic vs race fit. I thought Castelli always came up small due to euro race whippet sizing.

I think this is classic vs race fit.

No, the pro race one was much larger than the core one, both the same ‘nominal’ size. I just guess different people designed them and used different lasts.

Quick update.  After much deliberation (decided not to get another lightweight SS as I have that covered, also looked at a number of the options presented in the thread) I found a Rapha Classic Winter Jacket in vgc on eBay that I feel I got a good deal on (less than a new Rapha Core Jacket which has significantly less features) knowing I could sell on if not right and not be out of pocket.  Arrived in time for my ride today so gave it a test out.

A bit lighter, less thick and better fitting than the Gore softshell I have, plus the bonus of underarm vents to release the heat which is great.  Ticks the boxes with wind and water resistance, plus rear pockets, and will definitely be warm enough with room for layers.

Not quite goldilocks as will be too warm for me on milder days, but I have that covered with other options and will keep an eye out for a packable rain cape for warmer rides with the chance of a shower.