Thinking i needwant something that comes under this title. Wanting the slacker headangle and more travel than i have now, possibly as far 150, certainly 140. I am thinking a 16 inch frame(6 foot tall but little short legs) but am willing to listen to advise on this point.

Will be looking for second hand on ebay/classifieds but what I really wanted was a list of the things I should be looking out for. Not really up on these things and other than a 456 I have not a clue.

PS forgot to mention would be not looking for a full bike so frame only options please.

Orange Sub Zero. Built around a 150mm fork but is comfortable up to 160mm. Not the nicest bike to climb, but absolutely hilarious on everything else.

Blue pig, 456, Bfe, Pipedream, Dialled PA,
choose the colour you like and go for that one 😀

What do you mean by hardcore? LT trail bike or a proper DH hardtail?

BFe but would go for something bigger than the 16″ if you’re tall as I found mine too short even at 5’9″.

Carbon 456!
Just finished mine 150mm and at just over 23lbs its gonna go well.

Buy my Nicolai, 64-65 degree head angle with 180-200mm forks, the definition of hardcore hardtail…

Blue Pig +1

Ragley Blue Pig – Most “allround” IMO, of the “hardcore hardtails”, along with th one one 456. Long chainstays, not very compact, more of a typical steel, trail hardtail on ‘roids. Dialled PA would go here too.

NS core/Surge (I have a surge 2, reet loads of fun, my BMXers body can cope with 3+ hour rides on it pretty easily too). Short chainstay (which is also adjustable, so SS compatible), not too slack seat angle (so good for putting the saddle up), no doubt harshest riding, very compact, an all round bike as far as a BMXer/DJer/Downhiller is concerned. Very playful due to being compact and short chainstays.

The NS core bikes are pretty much the only off the shelf complete hardcore hardtails. 160mm forks, dual ring, short stem, wide bear, big tyres, etc, etc.

Charge Blender, much like the NS surge, not quite as playful, but has a slack seat angle which can make seat up climbing a problem.

Cotic BFe best of both extremes IMO. More capable of day rides than the surge and blender, but not as capable as a pig. less playful than the blender and surge but more playful than the pig.

What do you want out of this bike? All day rides and bouldering over stuff or playful couple of hour rides with a more exciting bike underneath you?

chameleon?

Santa Cruz Chameleon
Pace RC305

I’ve had both in 16″ format. Either, with 140mm forks will get you down anything*, while having you grinning like an escaped pyschopath whose just discovered a chainsaw

*going up may not be so much fun

Evil Sovereign. If you can get an older 853 they are fantastic. Im sure the modern ones are good too.

Ty for the suggestions so far. I thought I should have been more specific!

Looking for something that can be ridden up and down, with the bias towards the down. For three-ish hour blasts through the woods and maybe the occasional trail centre. No need to be comfortable for all day riding as that is already catered for.

Basically something other than a 456. Not that i have something against those, just looking for some more options.

Defo chameleon then.

No contest. Has to be a Chameleon

+1 for the Surge if you’re going to be doing a lot of XXXC riding. It eats long days for breakfast.

I really like the geometry on the Ragley stuff, but really, in your position, I’d see if I could try a few different options and see what you get on with.

Another vote for a Blue Pig

My surge-

Through these woods, is it simply windy sigletrack with some rocks and roots chucked in or is it going to involve some drops/berm/kickers too?

UphillCursing…Pace 305

I’ve got one for sale if you’re interested 😉

@ Badlywired…… just make and models really. I can then have a quick look at them and when one comes up on ebay or classifieds I will be ready to pounce.

Sanderson Blitz…

@ Twodogs— looking at the RRP for the revamped model I think yours might be out of my price range.

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cotic-bfe-first-ride-with-pics

Dialled Alpine is a reet giggle.

Lots of great options mentioned above however I’m going to join the suggestions of the BFe as the benchmark.

BFe but would go for something bigger than the 16″ if you’re tall as I found mine too short even at 5’9″.

I’m also 5’9″ and have the small BFe. It’s ideal for what I wanted it for (given I already have a medium Soul for general riding) but if I was building one up more general purpose I’d definitely have gone with the medium instead. My Soul and BFe are about the same weight but the Soul does climb better due to the extra TT length.

Ragley, either the BluePig or the Ti, for the more radical geometry. You have to ride it a certain way, but if that way is already your style of riding, then it’s quite an amazing frame.

I’m 5ft 11″ and very happy thrashing a small ti version.

the new Chumba HX1 frames have just arrived. £399 with EBB 🙂

HX1 and HX2 by srbwilson, on Flickr

I went for a mmmbop. Lovely, same as the big but a few pound lighter.

the new Chumba HX1 frames have just arrived. £399 with EBB

Hmm. My utter contempt for a certain Mr Kang should prevent me from being interested; however, there’s no harm in asking. What’s the BB set-up? Pics? Built around what fork travel? Geometry? Rear axle type? Headtube size? Colour/finish options? Can I get it without giving any money to Alan?

My Planet X 🙂

Another vote for Blue Pig.

Better than the Dialled PA it replaced.
Built with, short stem/wide bar, Pikes, strong but reasonable weight wheel and good brakes it’s very hard to beat IMHO.

Cove Stiffee may also be worth a look (I have one and love it). Good sizing options,

Three fish, don’t believe all you read about Alan, he is not all that bad, but i guess you have made your own mind up.

The HT on the HX1 is a tapered zero stack type. Frame comes with an EBB. HA is 68 with a 140mm fork. More geo info can be seen here http://www.progressive-bikes.co.uk/hx1.html

Axle is a standard 135mm QR with a nice neat replaceable drop out that looks clean when removed for for running single speed. Colours are ano black, ano silver and painted white. All your money will come to me 🙂

Buy my Nicolai, 64-65 degree head angle with 180-200mm forks, the definition of hardcore hardtail…

Is that a real bike? Or a scale model? That TT is throwing my perspective out!

Those TT you mean? It’s definitely real. 😀

If you’re looking at long rides then personally I’d go steel frame. Know there’s more to it than material alone but some of the harder core aluminium bikes are pretty harsh on long rides. Maybe I’m too use to full sus but my mmmbop really beats me up on long rides. I’d probably go pig.

Three fish, don’t believe all you read about Alan, he is not all that bad, but i guess you have made your own mind up.

It’s my personal (albeit virtual) experience of the man upon which I base my feelings, not any kind of heresay. Anyway, that’s nowt to do with you. I shouldn’t have mentioned it; my apologies. Anyway…

Thanks for the link. Is it a large frame in the pictures? Looks kind of funky built up.

I found some bumph about the EBB on the blog pages (from 2010). Do you know how they’ve faired in terms of reliability/slipping and so on?