Homework for tonight: read that droplink thesis by Cy again
(and finally try to make sense of it all)

try to find some similar text on DW links

somehow I thought ‘4-bar’ is the only way to go,
then again I havn’t really tried to understand FS until very recently

The anthem is a light cross country machine. The trance is a trail bike which happens to be pretty damn capable at lots of other riding.

I think you will love it, but then I am biast as I have just built one up.

I’ve ridden loads of hardtails and full sussers and the trance is one of the best. Especially coming from a steep short travel hardtail.

At the risk of sounding like a cheesy magazine review, a Yeti ASR5 is light, responsive and flickable. Pedals well (there is a little pedal bob, but not much) and accelerates fast for a full suss and corners incredibly well.

Obviously as I’m singing it’s praises that means I have one. Mine has 140mm forks, and it feels great on steeper, more technical stuff. Great fun to ride and I seem to gun it absolutely everywhere now, which is fine for fitness, but not so good for my creaking knees

somehow I thought ‘4-bar’ is the only way to go,

Well Horst links, VPP’s, DW links, Maestro’s etc are all “4 bars” they are just different ways of implementing a multi-link design.

None are perfect, they are all trying to balance different elements.

FWIW I’ve owned a Horst Link (Stumpjumper FSR) a VPP (Blur LT) and a DW Link (5 Spot) and a single pivot (Superlight)

The FSR had the smoothest suspension but suffered from a lot of bob when pedalling.

Blur LT had brilliant traction and didn’t really bob, it suffered a bit from brake jack but it wasn’t too bad TBH I was really happy with it, but changing the bearings every year was a PITA

The 5 spot sits between the two other designs. Its really neutral and supple like the FSR but you can stand up and pedal on it like the VPP

There’s talk of a 29er version of the Rocket coming BTW. Had I not bought a Whyte I’d probably have held on for one of those.

One can get over scientific on these processes, pick one you fancy at the end of the day. It’s hard to make a bad decision,

ah, OK, I somehow thought only those with a link in the chainstays are actual 4-bars

again while reading your words – and that’s how helpful forum questions/answers can be – something became clearer to me:
– I certainly want to be able to stand up and pedal uphill
– and I definitely want to be able to sprint out of corners and on flat sections

For climbing out of the saddle, any boinger becomes near rigid with the shock locked.

– I certainly want to be able to stand up and pedal uphill
– and I definitely want to be able to sprint out of corners and on flat sections

That would be a hardtail then! 😉

That would be a hardtail then!

Damn! 😉

“That would be a hardtail then!”

Damn! 😉

Which one do you fancy? You know really.

Get that one.

sod the 29inch wheels, get a meta4x and be happy, like I was. Its a hardtail that bails you out when it all goes wrong 🙂

http://wideopenmag.co.uk/news/18448/commencal-announce-the-2013-meta-4x

http://wideopenmag.co.uk/news/18448/commencal-announce-the-2013-meta-4x

Want!

the Meta 4X looks like A LOT of fun for going into the nearest neck of woods and let it rip
but would you take into the Alps for epic day-trips?

Which one do you fancy? You know really.

and that’s the thing: I don’t!
I would be so much easier to say: sod the good advise – deep in my heart I want that one anyway! Just because it looks right! And just because I like the brand or something.

And with hardtails it would be easy: I could list at least five 26 and 29 hardtails I really would love to have! [this is where takisawa2 would say: Easy, forget FS, go Solaris! 🙂 ]

But with FS bikes I am pretty much clueless (and somewhat want-less). While I am still struggling to define what I need I don’t even know what I would want. Poor me! 😉

Look, as a Cotice fan-boy I kind of like the idea of getting a Cotic Rocket, but I am not sure if it’s the right bike for me (too much travel, weight, slack). So I kind of wait for the short-travel one. But it’s also expensive just to find out that I might not like it.

Anyway: it’s probably one of the best problems to have and an exciting phase where you think about getting a new bike and are still searching.

🙂

takisawa2 would say get a Niner SIR9.

It’s fun talking about it, yeah.

I do think you should be looking at a trailsy bike, otherwise you’re not getting anything your Soul can’t do anyway. Well your Soul can do it, but I mean something different.

I decided in Feb to get a 29er FS trail bike to replace my 9 year old Blur, as soon as I walked away from stupid money carbon a whole world of choice opened up in the 1500 to 3 grand price bracket.

Current version of WhatMTB has their ‘trail bike of the year’ feature, it covers about 30 bikes. Worth a dig maybe.

takisawa2 would say get a Niner SIR9.

-> which would be on my dream hardtail list (and a Pace RC129, a Solaris, a Canfield Nimble9, current Soul…)

Current version of WhatMTB has their ‘trail bike of the year’

-> which I have right at the side of my bed 🙂

Norco, Whyte, Santa Cruz, Giant…
the answers in this thread have been more helpful though

how much are you actually looking to spend though? that will limit options considerably. On a personal note i went from a 2001 GT Zaskar to a 2013 Whyte 146 and have found it awesome, still use the GT, but only for flatter trails/long days in the saddle, the Whyte is perfect when it requires more ups and downs.

Like you I wanted to go from HT (Indian Fire Trail – fairly light and quick) to a full suss. I tried briefly a Trek Fuel Ex9 in the LBS, and had pretty much decided on it, even though it felt a bit ‘soft’. Mu wife wanted an anthem and so we went to Rutland and hired a couple. As soon as I started riding one I knew it was for me. It just made me want to nail everything – standing up to climb – yep, sprint out of corners – yep. I also tried a trance (car park only), but it felt like the Fuel.

I tried the X2 and bought an X1 (2011). And I ride it on the road lots. My poor IFT has been used a couple of times since I got it.

I think that the moral of the story is try a few, but I’d say include an Anthem.

Too much choice.

Nice problem to have.

You need to make an honest list of what’s important to you, which is actually harder than it sounds. I’ve been going through a similar process. I started by thinking it was obvious; of course what I wanted was the best bike for the type of riding I do. So I spent some time thinking about the type of riding I do and the type of riding I’d like to do, before realizing that I was the wrong track. In fact it turns out that I don’t want the best bike for xyz at all. It has to be a capable bike of course (as most options are), but after that I have a long list of wants, most of which have very little to do with how the bike rides if I’m honest.

You clearly like Cotic for whatever reason. So, maybe start by thinking about why you like Cotic bikes and whether you are ever going to feel the same way about a bike from another manufacturer. If not, then it’s pretty easy; you either buy a Rocket or wait and see what Cy brings out over the summer. If other brands would float your boat just as well then you’ve got more options, but at least then you’ll know a bit more about what you want in a bike.

Thanks for still being with me in this thread! I do appreciate it!

how much are you actually looking to spend though?

does 1800 to 2500 sound like a wide spread? New, or 2nd hand from a local shop. I would probably spend a little more on a Rocket, if I’d be sure that it is the right bike for me. Which leads me to roverp.’s point ->

but after that I have a long list of wants

yes, ’tis true! There are some brands/bikes I would pay more for and others I wouldn’t want no matter what. And one might even be able to rationalise this but ultimately they would just give me a higher value “owner experience”. There’s no denying.

I clearly have a soft spot for none-mainstream brands. Like Cotic, maybe Kona, Salsa but also some Genesis bikes. Then there are brands I don’t know very well yet, so I am more open. Like Whyte. And I wouldn’t want to be seen on a Canyon even though/because it might be the perfect bike.

With Whyte it’s the reviews and the “looks right”-looks combined with that 430mm chainstay (by the way: I want a low frame, long top tube, short chainstay).

Side note:
my wife asked if I would be any safer on a FS compared to my current HT

Good question, eh?

Would I? Initially maybe. Ultimately I might start doing things at speeds I shouldn’t do at all no matter at which speed.

But that’s only a side note.

You could argue that an FS bike is safer. It will let you get away with some mistakes that you’d be punished for on an HT. But due to risk compensation you’d almost certainly just ride it harder. In practice a more capable bike often just means higher speed crashes.

Good to see that you are being honest about your brand loyalties. Many people seem reluctant to admit to this, preferring to pretend that their decision is entirely rational. Maybe it is for some people, but I bet most of us have preferred brands if we are honest.

You need to test ride a few to get to know what you like. Try different suspension linkage as well. Deffo try the BMC four stroke 29er really nice bike iv test rode the top end carbon one and it rode really well, it was the first 29er I’d rode and thought yea that was fun it didn’t feel much different than an 26.

http://m.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/article/bmc-fourstroke-fs01-29-first-look-36286/

risk compensation

!that was the term I was looking for 🙂
well, I guess I won’t tell my wife about it

[there might be a parallel to cars here, a low-tech car can be a lot of fun at relative low speed whereas a perfect modern car can be boring at insane speeds]

concerning brands and image: it’s not all marketing bullshit, brands do have an important role of being an orientation in any market where the number of product variants/makes/modells and the perceived product variety is huge while actual product differentiation is pretty low

brands do have an important role of being an orientation in any market where the number of product variants/makes/modells and the perceived product variety is huge while actual product differentiation is pretty low

I like that. Not sure I understand it, but I like it 🙂 The last bit certainly seems to apply to mountain bikes in my experience. In practice, for most of us, most of the time, there is bugger all difference between lots of them and it’s only bike geeks with too much time on their hands who pretend that there is.

I think there’s an easy way of showing that brand is not just hot air but an actual part of the product experience:
– imagine you would have hundreds of bike brands like today, but legal regulations would ban any branding, e.g. bikes would all come in white and instead of the brand there would be numbers and instead of modells letters
– for sure the genius of some companies would shine through and the “357 K” would still be a cult bike for those who know, just like the “427 N”
– but we would still miss something, wouldn’t we?

Now we have those who de-decal their bikes and components. What about them? Well, it only works for them, because most bikes are branded. It wouldn’t be very cool in a world with unbranded bikes. People would probably invent their own branding.

🙂

but I am digressing slightly…

Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket. Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Anthem? Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket. Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket… (to be continued)

Work out a drum sequence, hire some dancers and I reckon you’ve got the makings of the next Youtube hit there 🙂

Part of what appealed to me re the Whyte was it’s a bit quirky and British, I also liked the attention to detail such as the seat clamp and the bearing covers. (It also helped that I bought it from a local dealer so have service backup, whereas a HT I can do myself).

Branding is part of how something is, no point denying it.

Ps I didn’t ride the Giants but it’s rare to find someone who has and doesn’t like them. The silly stem size put me off a bit, I can see that being a b**lache. I prefer interchangeable parts.

Get a few test rides sorted & give the bikes a decent test on terrain that you like to ride on.It’s much better than listening to people tell you about their own,their mates,or the bike they’d like to buy….Which is about as useful as a biased MTB mag review,it’s probably worse thinking about it………..

I am currently trying to get test-rides for the weekend sorted. Not so easy to get hold of the exact bikes though. Whytes not available at all.

Might have to start with testing any available full suspension bike. But that should give me at least an initial idea whether I might like it or not and I can take things from there.

Many thanks for all the advise – I’ll keep you posted!

Has someone suggested a Santa Cruz Superlight yet?

Santa Cruz Superlight

well, I am aware of it but somehow assumed that it would be not very sophisticated in the way it reacts to impacts etc. I read a review somewhere that wasn’t too enthusiastic.

do you reckon it could fit?

I have a Superlight 29er which I am enjoying. I come from a hardtail background. I’m sure it’s not as sophisticated as more modern designs but it does the job and I am very happy. It climbs well, will little bob even out of the saddle climbing. With 120mm fork it descends well too.

Not a very good pic. Now has Reverb.

it looks ace on that pic – that’s for sure!

Why thankyou! Mate has just bought a SC LT Carbon Tallboy – now that is VERY nice!

I think they look good, would be a candidate if I wanted a XC boinger. Simple is good.

Simple is good.

😕 I will grab that review when I’m home
brand-wise it would fit 😉

I was a die hard HT rider, but last year I went for a Scott Spark 35 to ease my aching old bones. Love it. Good allrounder I think.

But then I’m a crap rider so I wouldn’t know anything. }:8)