I know best about everything and am entirely dismissive of all your parenting efforts.

Anything with Pooh/Tigger
Aristocats
Up
Monsters Inc
Lilo and Stitch
Toy Story
Ice Age

I’m sure other Psychos and Neurotics have done research that might suggest a bit of televisual stimulation can actually be quite good for a developing mind, too…

I don’t think there is any, although I’d be interested to know if you dug some out. My hunch is that there is so much potential money in baby tv that any research going that way would be trumpeted widely.

As always on these threads, I’d recommend a book called ‘the philosophical baby’ – incredibly good lay person’s guide to the current research on how kids brains work, explains why the no tv thing makes sense for under twos also.

Having said that, we let our baby watch a tiny bit of tv five minutes or so at a time, and we’re sending her to childminder in June, just because we can read research and know what would be optimum, doesn’t mean that we don’t make comprises to fit our combined family lifestyle just like everyone else,

no I know best about everything and am entirely dismissive of all of your parenting afforts

debby does dallas
human centipede
terminator
shindlers list

Because of course he knows so much better than the experts.

Erm, maybe, just maybe (and I’m going out on a limb here), he does, because he actually spends time with his little one, whereas the ‘experts’ dont.

I have never seen a ‘definitive guide’ or blueprint about how to raise children. Just a load of egotists trying to impress how much their onions mean more than others.

For the record; I don’t have my own kids, no. But I’d wager I’ve probbly been left to look after more tinies than most folk on here. Apparently I’m ‘good with kids’. So many parents have entrusted their precious little bundles unto myself. I’ve never had any complaints.

In my humble onion (and I concede many folk may want to challenge me here), children are incredibly resilient and tough, and are able to withstand all sorts of adverse social, physical, economic and psychological hardships. Each person’s upbringing is unique. Yes, too much negative influence can have a damaging effect, but who is the arbiter of exactly what is ‘negative’?

Children all over the World grow up in ‘less than perfect’ circumstances, according to us in the affluent cosseted West. But they survive, and you know what? Some of then actually do ok. I know! Amazing, is not it???

I’m amused by the attempted slights at Molgrips’ abilities as a parent. I feel it inevitably that I will one day meet Molgrips ‘in real life’ (he may well live in fear of such an eventuality), and just from his presence on this forum, I reckon he’s probbly not that bad a parent. Because, like, I read his stuff on here and figure him out to be at least a reasonably intelligent, caring, sensitive and conscientious a Human Being.

Or maybe i’ve got it all wrong because I jolly well have not read a couple of media articles…

Who knows.

What is the answer?

Moderation is key here. Our little one (2yo) watches a little tv, some days she gets none, other days (say, if she’s poorly), she might watch an hour or two. Quite often if we’re watching she tells us she wants us to turn it off! I don’t see the problem with it myself, but then we don’t generally have the TV on much anyway.

One DVD my daughter seems to enjoy is “March of the Penguins”, although she doesn’t really like the bit with the seal. We don’t just plonk her in front of it though, me or the wife will sit with her and respond to her comments, or make our own as we watch.

yunki Jr is sixteen months old and like every other kid his age he has cbeebies on from dawn til dusk..

he generally watches a few moments at a time before he gets bored.. switches it off and does something more interesting.. (except for that episode of waybulloo where nocktock can’t balance a coconut on another round object.. he’d watch that all day I reckon.. howls with laughter at the stupidity/slapstick..)

he’s usually far too busy climbing up stuff.. building stuff.. playing with his toys.. trying to work out how things work.. singing and dancing.. watching the birds on the feeder in the garden or hitting people with books until they read to him..

make of that what you will..

Stories (different to those in books), fun, character tracking, involvement, learning to understand cultural forms. But mainly something that gives enjoyment along with books and whatever else.

Ah – all the stuff he gets from going to the theater, or watching stuff on TV which doesn’t involve him sitting there for 1.5 hours.

To be fair aracer was more offensive, coming on with the ‘evidence’ of how we are terrible parents and hurting our kids’ brains

If the facts hurt, maybe you should avoid internet forums.

And as for aracer we dont rely on paying a nursery to let someome else do the interacting for us. My wife takes our nipper to mother and baby groups where he has friends.

Friends he sees 2 or 3 times every week for several hours, so as to form strong bonds? Does he even know the names of the other kids at the mother and baby groups – would they get invited to his birthday party? I note you’re also ignoring the bit about all the learning they get at nursery.

Call me old fashioned but having a member of family staying at home looking after the children, is better for them than a stranger in the early years.

Old fashioned? You’re stuck in the stone ages. I’d resisted suggesting staying at home with mum was wrong, as I’m generally of the opinion that these sort of things are an individual choice, but if you’re insistent on pushing the buttons, then yes I do think your kids are missing out by not going to nursery (or some other similar child care arrangement), and that staying at home with mum is actually worse.

Anywho, some tv is ok I dont get why there is an issue.

If you check back, you’ll see my kids watch some TV – though I suspect even though I feel sometimes I let them watch a bit too much, my definition of “some” is rather less than others on here. Still to be convinced them sitting there for 1.5 hours watching a film (even if that is together with mum/dad) is a good thing.

Lol at me being stuck in the stone age.
Heaven forbid “us” actually raising our kid, as opposed to paying someone to do it for most of the day.
Structured learning, is marketing speak to make you feel better IMHO.
So let me get this right the fact my lad knows his friends names and vice versa, the fact they hug each other when they meet, the fact they love playing at our house as its like a play room, plus they go out on regular trips together to farms the park etc in the day is wrong???? Hmmmm best I sign him up now!!!!

OMG step away from the computer you poor fragile paranoid little thing!

Wow you know a lot about me, don’t you?

Perhaps, if you don’t understand this non-verbal communication thing, it’s you who should step away from the computer 🙂

Like it or not, your comments did heavily imply a certain attitude (hence the number of offended folk on the thread). If you didn’t mean that, then the correct response is usually to apologise.

If the facts hurt, maybe you should avoid internet forums

Lol! Any idea how ridiculous that sounds? Oh and if you think that website you linked to is ‘facts’ then you need to learn a lot more about people, the media, science and science reporting.

my definition of “some” is rather less than others on here.

Oh yeah? How much TV do our kids watch then?

Personally, I was quite impressed when Lil Grips was able to maintain concentration and actively watch the movie (ie talk about it, react to it, not just zonk out) for an hour and a half. Not bad for a 22mo.

mumsnet.singletrackworld.com

PS thanks for the kind words Elf 🙂

What about the health of the carer? No one seems to mention this and imo they need a break from full time care whether that comes from tv/film, nursery, school etc. Simply you can’t look after a baby 24 hours a day without going a bit mad and suffering the repercussions of that on your head, marriage/relationship etc. You need a break.

that’s what gin for breakfast is for 😉

I suppose a child watching TV all day, is akin to an adult spending half of their waking day, on an internet chatroom forum!!! (except the TV is slightly more educational)

Deep_River (Cbeebies premium subscriber)

Right, ok, now explain how this differs from watching a play or ballet, or looking out of the window on a car journey, or something like that?

It’s to do with the way films/TV are edited, not just the subject matter.

When you watch a play or ballet (not that I’m recommending that for the 22 month old in question BTW) you have a fixed point of view and you can follow what is going on. With TV/Film there are lots of jumps/cuts that make it difficult for a 22 month old to follow. There’s a fair bit of scientific study which seems to show that this leads to reduced attention span later in life.

A good book on the subject (which recommends no screen based entertainment until 3 at the earliest) is Remotely Controlled by Aric Sigman

Watership down,, a great film for children..

With TV/Film there are lots of jumps/cuts that make it difficult for a 22 month old to follow. There’s a fair bit of scientific study which seems to show that this leads to reduced attention span later in life

Hmm I know that there’s research about – not sure of the quality of it since I haven’t looked – but that would seem to go against my observations. Being able to watch a whole 1.5 hour film when you’re not even two is indicative of a LONG attention span, surely? A film is essentially the same subject for 90 mins which is a very long time for a toddler.

This is what is frustrating me about these studies – they just talk about TV as if it’s all the same. It’s not! Surely anyone can see that watching say Blue Planet is very different indeed from.. I dunno.. Ren and Stimpy (most obnoxious raucous TV show that sprang to mind).

I know that there’s research about – not sure of the quality of it since I haven’t looked – but that would seem to go against my observations.

Good start. I’m not necessarily comparing TV to marijuana, but, by your logic, marijuana must be OK because it makes people feel good, laugh and want a snack. So why not just toke your kid up when she’s at a loose end?

This is what is frustrating me about these studies – they just talk about TV as if it’s all the same.

The studies that you haven’t looked at?

It’s not just about content – as in the story/narrative – it’s about how the medium engages the mind, the habits that it encourages and the processes that it can make more difficult. If you stop watching TV for a month, or even just a couple of weeks, you should be able to observe how your own mind begins to behave differently.

by your logic, marijuana must be OK because it makes people feel good, laugh and want a snack

Don’t talk crap.

I could respond by using spurious ‘logic’ (this isn’t a logic puzzle btw) to rebut what you’ve said but there’s no point cos it’s so stupid.

The studies that you haven’t looked at?

Obviously not. I was referring to the ones I have looked at. Why would I be referring to anything else?

It’s not just about content – as in the story/narrative – it’s about how the medium engages the mind, the habits that it encourages and the processes that it can make more difficult

Yes I know that. However all TV is not MADE the same way as in production, pace, camera, all sorts. Watch really carefully next time In the Night Garden is on.

If you stop watching TV for a month, or even just a couple of weeks, you should be able to observe how your own mind begins to

As usual, I’m ahead of you there mate 🙂

Don’t talk crap.

Precisely what you were supposed to say. Well done.

I could respond by using spurious ‘logic’ (this isn’t a logic puzzle btw) to rebut what you’ve said but there’s no point cos it’s so stupid.

And yet you understood exactly what I meant.

So have you looked at studies or have you not? You seem a little unclear.

And yet you understood exactly what I meant.

Yeah and I disagree with both the sentiment and the way you’ve extrapolated to the ridiculous.

Smoking marijuana is nothing like watching telly, is it?

So have you looked at studies or have you not? You seem a little unclear.

I read the page linked to earlier in the thread, and I’ve read many many reports of studies (possibly this same one) over the years. None of them I can remember differentiating between different kinds of TV, which is my point. Most of them simply demonstrate a correlation rather than a causal link, but at least the linked thread deals with some science (although not too well from what I can tell).

mm I know that there’s research about – not sure of the quality of it since I haven’t looked – but that would seem to go against my observations. Being able to watch a whole 1.5 hour film when you’re not even two is indicative of a LONG attention span, surely?

No.

Like it or not, your comments did heavily imply a certain attitude (hence the number of offended folk on the thread). If you didn’t mean that, then the correct response is usually to apologise.

Are you still referring to this?:
“I’d never attempt to stick a kid infront of a DVD at such a young age.”
and if so, are you’re seriously asking me to appologise for typing something completely inoffensive that YOU somehow managed to read some twisted implication from and upset yourself?

I’ll say it again just so you can try to read it for what it is..
“I’d never attempt to stick a kid infront of a DVD at such a young age”.
I honestly feel sorry for you if you can’t cope with my personal choice but there’s no way I’ll appologise to you for saying it so just give it up!

If you don’t let your kid watch DVDs and they turn out distinctly average in the long run, have you wasted your time?

yunki Jr is sixteen months old and like every other kid his age he has cbeebies on from dawn til dusk..

he generally watches a few moments at a time before he gets bored.. switches it off and does something more interesting.. (except for that episode of waybulloo where nocktock can’t balance a coconut on another round object.. he’d watch that all day I reckon.. howls with laughter at the stupidity/slapstick..)

he’s usually far too busy climbing up stuff.. building stuff.. playing with his toys.. trying to work out how things work.. singing and dancing.. watching the birds on the feeder in the garden or hitting people with books until they read to him..

make of that what you will..

If your child is busy doing all this other stuff, why do you have the TV on full time?

Smoking marijuana is nothing like watching telly, is it?

Except that the arguments you’re making for letting your kid watch hours of TV could equally well be made for letting them smoke marijuana. Come back with a better argument and you might avoid people making such comparisons.

If your child is busy doing all this other stuff, why do you have the TV on full time?

mostly cos me and mrs yunki are so off our faces on speedballs and acid all the livelong day.. that if we didn’t have something to focus on we’d be running around screaming and smashing into stuff all the time.. and that’s not a safe environment for a toddler now is it..?

V funny.

But really, why do you have the TV on all day?

Molgrips , if we ever meet , i’ll buy you a pint to celebrate your patience ! Been following this on and off over the weekend and i havent got a handbag big enough to get involved . I can’t remember an altogether innocent thread ever being hijacked like this one. The guy wants us to recommend films for toddlers , he doesn’t want or probably need ‘modern parenting ‘ advice and abuse . GW , aracer etc. crawl back under your bridges will you ?

Except that the arguments you’re making for letting your kid watch hours of TV could equally well be made for letting them smoke marijuana.

Except that the effects of marijuana on the brain are profound, instant, and dramatic, and the potential consequences of long term abuse are unequivocal and well documented.

Not the case with TV. For example, I watched TV last night – didn’t get stoned at all.

I am thinking your arguments are getting very feeble indeed, so don’t pour scorn on mine 🙂

Lucky – 🙂 It’s cos I’m on such solid ground I feel. It’s why I’m not getting annoyed.

I am thinking your arguments are getting very feeble indeed

Those would be the arguments mentioning the peer reviewed research which are feeble, as opposed to the arguments made by a parent who appears not even to understand how such research is done, given he thinks he can disprove it by watching one subject over a short period?

It’s cos I’m on such solid ground I feel. It’s why I’m not getting annoyed

Really? You’ve been getting very defensive – I mean if you’re on such solid ground, why the need to bring up you’re wife’s problems?

I often wonder what’s more damaging to kids in the long term – sitting them in front of DVDs/TV for too long or having sanctimonious, judgemental, narrow-minded parents who pass on those characteristics to their kids…

Those would be the arguments mentioning the peer reviewed research which are feeble

Gonna need to show me better links than that smart site.

by watching one subject over a short period?

A short period?! Two years aka her entire life is a short period is it? 🙂

And the one subject is the only one I am interested in currently 🙂

Or to put it another way, I am carefully monitoring the situation. I don’t believe that TV is harming her brain invisibly without any tangible external effect.

Anyway just scrolling back I notice that you said the experts say that ‘too much TV is bad for kids’. I agree, I don’t let her watch too much TV. I let her watch some TV though, and some films. I notice that no-one’s asked me how much TV she actually watches on a daily basis…?

PS To anyone else still reading this, Up was hit last night. She was very engaged right up until bedtime. Got as far as the bit where they meet the bird before we stopped it.

the bit where they meet the bird

Oh thank you VERY MUCH! I haven’t seen that film yet and now, thanks to your post, I don’t NEED TO!!

Please be more considerate to others in future and include the words “SPOILER WARNING” in 50pt text at the beginning of any posts in which you might let slip vital plot elements.

Well perhaps if your brain hadn’t been melted by evil TV you’d have been able to figure out what’ll happen after the first 20 mins of the film 🙂

I’ve found myself being profoundly disturbed by the movie ‘Happy Feet’..

aww.. lovely fluffly animated love story with dancing and singing and cute penguins.. suddenly hit head on about two thirds of the way through… with complete mental breakdown.. lunatic asylum and daaaaaarkness..

one to avoid

I often wonder what’s more damaging to kids in the long term – sitting them in front of DVDs/TV for too long or having sanctimonious, judgemental, narrow-minded parents who pass on those characteristics to their kids…

that’s the winning post right there..