tangerine, you have got close to some important realisations in what you have said. The first is that you are a logical/rational kind of guy. This means you expect to be able to get logical/rational answers and you expect your mind to provide them but there is a catch here. Depression is a big fat LIAR and the fact is you cannot trust your mind to give you the right answers when you are feeling this way.
Another is that this is an illness, not a personality flaw. If you broke your leg you’d be straight off to A&E without a second thought to get patched up but because it is your mind that’s “broken” you feel embarrassed to tell your doctor how you feel and resistant to taking “happy pills”.
Actually, depression is linked to low serotonin levels in the brain and modern antidepressants help keep the levels up. There are many different ones so if you find one doesn’t suit you (bad side effects or just not working) ask your doctor to try you on something else. Keep trying and keep in touch with your doctor. The first one I was given made me feel ten times worse and I couldn’t move from my bed for 3 days! The doctor tried a different one and I felt much better very quickly.
I was also prescribed a course of CBT which I was able to do at home as an interactive computer programme. This was backed up with weekly counselling sessions on the phone (you can also have face-to-face). For me this was very useful in teaching me why depression happens, why it is hard to shift and – almost the most important thing – how very widespread and common it is. You would be amazed how many of the things you describe are very common symptoms of depression.
CBT is not about probing into your past, or about whether you are a good/bad person. It is about recognising that how you feel is closely related to the kinds of thoughts you have. If these thoughts are exaggerated or faulty, you can nail them down and examine them, then find ways of replacing them with more realistic and positive ones.
I know that when you are depressed it is very hard to imagine feeling happy (or even “normal”) again, but the fact is you can.
Good luck! Keep us updated .

I went to the doctor a couple of years ago and did one of those PHQ depression tests. I think I was about in the middle. He referred me to a self help counselling guy, who was really good. I had 3 sessions with him, and we worked out that low self esteem was one of the problems. Having an understanding of that helped for a little while, but the darkness soon creeps back. That guy has now left and he hasn’t been replaced.

Who doesn’t score in the middle of a depression test?

Test questions are so loaded that everyone comes out depressive. How many people have never ever thought of suicide? Lead a busy life and I don’t see how you can answer ‘no’ to some of those questions unless you’re on a Festina style doping protocol.

If councelling helped before then more of the same and some personal reading seem good first steps.

Hi! I can kind of understand what your going through, although perhaps I was a little more fortunate?

My father also drank a lot, pretty much every night would be spent at the pub. My mum didn’t drink though. He didn’t take things out on her, he used to have a bad time at work and would regulary take it out on me. Not severe beatings, but plenty of smacking and being dragged into for my bedroom for a smacking, for things like patting the bottom of the sauce bottle at meals, sniffing at the table because I was crying, that sort of thing. This went on from perhaps 6/7/8 to when I was 10?

Luckily I had grandparents who loved me and were brilliant. My mum did love me but never stepped in to help. I perhaps thought this was all normal at the time though, and so never mentioned anything to anyone. Perhaps the only time I thought it might not be normal was when I saw the horror on my cousins faces when they saw it happening to me one time.

Anyway, this obviously effected me. Similar in a way to you, but I have managed to express my feelings over the last 10-15 years or so (I’m mid late 30’s now) but still can be a bit distant and find it hard to be ‘all emotional’ sometimes. This just developed over time, probably form being forced to show emotion from my partners! I also get spells when I feel despair! Also times when I feel rage. I just bottle it in though as I feel I can’t really tell anyone about it.

I’ve started reading The Chimp Paradox as well and have found it helpful. It sort of explains why you get some of these emotions, that they are normal, and that you can do something to help. Perhaps give this a try as well?

Again, thanks for all the advice, but especially to those who’ve posted about their own experiences.

I’m off to work now but I’ll have another read through tomorrow.

I’ll also let you know how it goes after I’ve seen the doctor.

Cheers.

you expect to be able to get logical/rational answers and you expect your mind to provide them but there is a catch here. Depression is a big fat LIAR and the fact is you cannot trust your mind to give you the right answers when you are feeling this way.

this is quite an important point I think.. I can only give you a very simplified version of events here but it might be worth a shot..

I was extremely depressed for a number of years, and eventually I was lucky in that I met people who were more than happy to show me a way through..
A lot of my problem was that I thought too much, not a very wise move when your brain is out to get you..

The first thing that I had to learn to do was to not judge myself harshly, to approve of myself, and to decide on a few things that I enjoyed doing and then to regularly do them, for me, damn everyone else, damn convention and damn other peoples expectations..

The second thing I had to do was learn to let it go, to quit thinking about my problems and feelings and only deal with what was in front of me right here and now in the real world.. not to analyse how it made me feel, but just to get on with it.. a what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger type approach..
Once I had noticeably worked at this and achieved it in any given situation, then I could reward myself with the first thing..
And then I learnt to keep repeating this until it was habitual..

I found medications that helped, (although some hindered and it was a lengthy process to find something that was useful)..
A complete change of lifestyle was an enormous help, different social scene, different habits, different scenery and most importantly, people that could offer fresh perspectives..

i have always struggled with depression too. two years ago i had a really big wobble when i turned 30 and split up with my girlfriend who loved very very much. i pushed her away through a stupid bout of wallowing in my own self pity with the idea in my head that i would be happier if i could just go off on my own and do what i wanted all the time.
biggest mistake of my life. its very true what was mentioned above, that your decision making is drastically impaired when in a depressed state.
i dont really have any advice to give sorry. i am pretty down right now too but you aren’t alone in this mate, and this place is very supportive when you are feeling the pinch. it seems acceptable to come on here and say” im feeling really bad right now” and there is always a lot of supportive comments.
i hope you sort it out to a level you can function on .
dont leave your wife, depression + loneliness is much much worse

Yunki +1. Great post. Recently I’ve been worrying about how much I overthink things. Yeah I know…

Yunki. What you describe as your self-help techniques has strong parallels with CBT, from my experience of that.

Taught to me independently of each other by the town drunk and a particularly unsavoury and nefarious drug peddler..!!
They supported me through thick and thin, and made sure that the message had sunk in.. I’d be very surprised if I ever let depression get the better of me again..

Not sure I can add anything else helpful, but it seems this is the thread for depressed people coming out, so I might as well join in. I’m on the drugs, but not really sure they’re helping me much (the second one I’ve tried – these at least don’t have any obvious side effects, the first lot did and didn’t obviously help either). Have had some counselling but if anything that made me feel worse and I don’t think I ever actually made any progress – not helped by being unemployed and living off a redundancy payment, it felt like I was spending a lot of money on it compared to my other outgoings for no obvious benefit. At some point I’ll try somebody else, but like a lot of things in my life this is something difficult I keep putting off “until I feel up to it”.

I should point out that my understanding is that my experience is atypical – most people do find the drugs and/or counselling helps a lot. Despite no progress in those ways I’m still really glad I went to see my GP – what felt like such a difficult thing beforehand seemed so easy once I was in there (from what he said, I’m fairly sure my GP also suffers from depression, so had lots of empathy!) I suspect my big problem is that my depression is largely situational – the root cause is largely something in my life, and I know that I won’t ever get better until I change that, yet at the moment I’m scared that I’ll end up being even more unhappy if I do.

Interesting and useful post from yunki – I also judge myself harshly. I also have the problem of thinking rather than doing – I often find it hard to get out and do things I know I enjoy and will make me feel a lot better. Sometimes depression is such a horrible viscious circle.

If it helps at all – I felt exactly the same way about being prescribed anti-depressants over a year ago. Really didn’t want to go on them, felt like I was giving up, worried about what they’d do to my brain etc etc.

But they have helped – mainly because they gave me space to actually distance myself from negative thoughts and feelings long enough to put them in context. A therapist (also a big part of what helped me) put it in a way that I found useful, which was to compare it to a physical problem. Let’s say that you’ve been unexpectedly shot in the leg while walking down the street. While it’s perfectly natural to want to know why that’s happened, who did it, what their reasons were etc, the first thing you need to do is FIX THE HOLE IN YOUR LEG. So I view the taking of anti-depressants in that light. Why i need them, what I can do long-term to tackle anxiety and stress – all worthwhile problems that need my attention. But a clear head, free (or at least freer) from the pointless cycle of anxiety and recrimination, is what’s required, and that’s what they give me.

Big props for being able to talk about it in the first place mate. Good luck.

its very true what was mentioned above, that your decision making is drastically impaired when in a depressed state.

Oh yeah – forgot that. I got into a state where I’d been through a job a year for 4 years – proper, well paid career-type jobs as well. All of them said they didn’t want me to leave and offered stuff to keep me there, but no way Jose – I was certain the job was the problem and it was making me feel rubbish and I really wasn’t doing very well at it and they were only trying to keep me because of their own reasons etc. The grass would be greener, oh yes! And it wasn’t – and each time it wasn’t i got more convinced that the job was the problem etc etc. I eventually walked out of corporate life and into my own business thinking that would be the route to happiness and all the same stuff came back at me again. Then I had my brush with death and spent a few years rebuilding myself, the recession killed what was left of my business and now I can’t even get a sniff of a job and sometimes feel like I’ll never have a career again (old habits die hard).

So the moral of my story is don’t make any big life decisions yet.

The name for thinking too much in the manner some posters are describing is called ‘rumination’ – which is an inclination to self reflect on events negatively. A ruminative thinking style maintains depressed mood previously installed – sometimes by past events as the OP details for example.

I have to guard against it myself otherwise I can ‘brood’ resulting in increased anxiety.

If you understand it, there are mechanisms to break the cycle. Essentially you need to make the good things in your life the focal points.

grum – how did you go about finding someone privately (assuming you did)?

Try here for starters, IME you may need to go to a couple before you find someone who works for you. Good luck 🙂

http://www.itsgoodtotalk.org.uk/therapists/

Essentially you need to make the good things in your life the focal points.

I guess that’s why the guys with the hedonistic outlook were able to offer me such useful advice..

Unacceptable work stress led to an acute period of depression and anxiety, then three months off. I took medication and it helped me stop crashing so much, to sum it up. Obviously every case is different and causes various, mine were both work and of course me. I hear all you have said and been somewhere near there.

However a mixture of things, including bikes enabled the dark days to get further apart and being able to spot a bad one coming. It will come and you will ride out of the darkness, but it may take some time. Now everyday is a blessing.

I saw a few therapists, and my tuppence worth was that it’s more important to click with the person than their style / technique as its the relationship which matters. I did see a guy in North London, who I really liked and thought was very good (for me): http://www.feelbetter-counselling-eastlondon.com/

Edit: In the end, Citalopram was so effective, that after a few weeks on it, I didn’t have anything to discuss as my anxiety had completely vanished. I’ve stayed on the drugs (on a lower dose) as I now realise that I have neurotic tendencies and am anxiety prone and the drugs just normalise me, so these tendencies are kept suppressed.

I wish there wasn’t such a stigma around anti-depressants. I know about 6 people who have all been helped massively by Citalopram.

Firstly, apologies that I’ve not read any of the posts in this thread other than your first so may be repeating what others have said, but felt I could relate to your post and was compelled to respond straight away…

Firstly, I have been there with the depression, not the same background as you but can relate to so much, including being over analytical and try and “think” my way out of everything.

I got to a stage last year where I just broke down at work for no apparent reason, managed to escape without being seen and called a very (now even better!!) friend who is a psychologist for some advice as I didn’t know where to start. Fix my bike? No worries… Car broken down? Take it to a mechanic… Head fooken? No idea where to begin!!!

I’ll repeat what she told me. Firstly, what you are feeling is very normal. Don’t worry, it’s fixable, won’t last for ever and is nothing to be ashamed of. Secondly, you’ve done the hard bit – admitting there is something wrong and looking for help – that’s one of the hardest and strongest things you’ll ever do. Ever!

As for the way forward, if you can afford it, forget your GP and find a psychologist local to you who deals in CBT (go here: http://www.bps.org.uk/bpslegacy/dcp as a starting point). If you want to go through your GP, push for a consultation with someone dealing in CBT. If you don’t “click” with the first person you see then try a couple of others (might not be so easy with NHS route), it’s all about the relationhship you have with you therapist. I paid £80/session and had about 5 or 6 sessions – I’d pay that again with a nought on the end for the amount it improved my life. It’s not some new fangled, yoghurt weaving miracle cure (trust me, I’m the most down to earth person you’ll ever meet!!) it’s just someone who will rationalise how you are thinking, put it in perspective and give you tools to move forward.

Trust me, find the right psychologist and it will change you life forever (and I was a naysayer of the highest order who hardly even knew what psychology was until I went through this chapter in my life). I’ve since been out with someone who had a not dissimilar childhood to yours, although the focus of the violence was on her and who has since had a series of abusive relationships. If I tell you that CBT therapy has changed her life to the point where she is now half way through a 4 year course to become a CBT therapist herself then perhaps that puts things into perspective…

Back from the doctor. I found it surprisingly difficult to tell him what was going on but managed to in the end. He gave me some Sertraline to take and I’m to go back and see him in a fortnight. I should also hear from the CPN/CMHT within the next couple of weeks. Feel a bit strange sitting here with antidepressant tablets – never imagined I’d ever be taking them, but there you go! He told me he didn’t anticipate it being a long term thing, just to stop the downward spiral as he described it. Guess this is the first stage in getting it all fixed.

Good for you tangerine. This is a positive step.

never imagined I’d ever be taking them

I know what you mean, but if you had an infection and he prescribed you antibiotics, you’d have no issues taking them. It’s not really any different……

EDIT: By the way, well done for telling him what’s really going on, it’s not easy by any means.

Christ. I never thought I’d be depressed but I’ve had the blues for a wee while now and reading through this thread, maybe I have depression. There’s often times when I have to force myself to get out of bed in the morning; I very regularly avoid doing things I know I’ll enjoy for no apparent reason; I’m regularly accused of lacking emotion as I rarely display affection nor do I get angry (although on he inside I get very wound up about things) and I avoid confrontation; I worry about my effectiveness as a father; and I think, think, think all the time.

Here’s the thing though, I am for all intents and purposes a successful person: I have a great missus, three great kids, my own business in a field where I am respected, a comfortable living, no financial worries. I had a loving and steady upbringing and I’ve never really experienced any major traumas in my life.

I know I’ve nothing to be depressed about and I’ve a tendency to try and tell myself to cheer up, pull myself together etc. but I can’t. I guess in need to get some CBT in me. Thanks to this thread for that. And its good to know you’re not alone.

Tangerine – I was wondering how you were getting on, well done on asking for treatment. It’s not necessarily quick, but you should be on the way to recovery now.

I’d recommend anyone who thinks they might be depressed to read this – I was shocked at how well it described what I was feeling. This was what finally made me seek treatment.