I’ve been out of the country on business for a few days. Normally I drive to my work and get taxi to the airport I’m flying from (as crew).

The last 2 trips I’ve made my own way in trains (different airport) and my car has been left tucked out the way outside my house at the end of a culdesac. There’s only one car that goes beyond mine; driven by an elderly neighbour who I’ve just discovered has eyesight issues… I moved in 4 weeks ago….

I get back to see my NSF door has been seriously dented; the marks match his bumper and the way he exits when my g/f isn’t parked in our drive. I totally rely on that car to get to work and all trips I do until December will require me driving to my normal work place (70 miles).

Its an 09 3 series touring that I’ve spent a small fortune on lately, mechanically and bodywork (careless supermarket driver on other side…) and I am looking to sell. It needs a new NSF door and associated blending of paint etc. I have no spare cash as it and my ex have between them drained my finances.

He denies knowledge but it can only be him. His bumpers match the colour and shape of imprint. When I said I needed to officially report it (I initially didn’t believe him) he freaked. He needs his car for mobility…

Moral: the neighbours all have commented on his driving/eyesight. What happens if he injures someone? I believe he doesn’t recall it as his front bumper probably did the damage as he swung in an arc back and he wouldn’t have felt the impact. I don’t want to de-house him as he’s a nice chap.

Financial: he’s offered to pay but I believe it’s going to be >£1000 at a decent shop (not bodging it) and way more thru insurance. I can’t afford to take the hit and I’m not prepared to lose my NCD. I’ve got too much stress going on with an expensive divorce etc.

I’ve said I’d get 2 quotes: one private and one insurance and get back to him.

Any thoughts?

That’s why we pay for insurance. Get it done right and get him to foot the bill via his insurance. Sure it will affect both your policies, but that’s just how it is.

The guy is on the road in a big lump of metal and he is crashing into things.

You’re probably right….

It’s what insurance is for. Whatever he’s worrying about are his own issues.

I wouldn’t be totally confident his insurance will pay out. I bet it end up with both insurance companies agreeing on 50/50 even though that’s obviously ridiculous. You will lose your no claims.

BUT, if his eyesight is an issue, report that. I have to ride on the road with people like that.

Rachel

Moral: the neighbours all have commented on his driving/eyesight.

the neighbours have witnessed his driving and made assumptions about his eyesight. But I doubt any of them know if he has any reportable conditions.

Use your insurance and advise him to use his. Your insurance my not feel theirs sufficient grounds to involve him in the claim unless he volunteers the responsibility (as theirs no witnesses or evidence apart from your own detective work) and he may genuinely believe he’s not responsible

I find it hard to believe that anyone would be unaware of the sensation of dragging their bumper up the side of another vehicle, so either he’s not as nice a chap as you think he is, or there’s another reason he needs to reassess his entitlement to drive.

I don’t know what grounds there are for you all to think his eyesight is failing (aside from the obvious), but there is already some indication he doesn’t readily take personal responsibility for his actions, so it may well fall to you and the neighbours to protect other road users on his behalf.

You’d actually be doing him, and the rest of us, a favour if it stops him killing or seriously injuring someone.

It probably was him but you have no proof

Not just a Moral and Financial conundrum. It is a Social one too.

Morally you should report your concerns. If others have concerns, they should report them too.

Financially, I think it is either he pays the bill, or you let the insurance people sort it out.

Socially, you have to live next to this fella for the foreseeable future…

IMO the moral aspect is the most important one here. My father in law was unfit to drive, and no-one had the guts to shop him. He ended up having a fatal heart attack at the wheel while under the influence of alcohol and crashed into someone’s  front garden. Pure luck no-one  else was hurt.

He’s got Glaucoma

You’d actually be doing him, and the rest of us, a favour if it stops him killing or seriously injuring someone.

you can express a concern and not much more really. People’s entitlement to drive is ‘stickier’ than you’d imagine. You would need to have have a reportable condition – report it – have that condition assessed by both the DVLA and the drivers doctors as having a significant impact / impairment etc. Its quite a leap to get from a little bit of a bump during a carparking manoeuvre and massive carnage.

Being older and doddey isn’t enough. Being young and an arsehole doesn’t get you disqualified either.

Wasn’t making a judgement on his condition – but if there is proper evidence of a reportable condition, DVLA should be informed IMO.

If he has glaucoma only in one eye, he doesn’t have to inform DVLA.

might not necessarily stop him from driving. He should have informed the DVLA though.

I went through a very similar situation a couple of years back…

My car was only a year old, and having bought my first property and in the middle of doing it up, I was pretty skint.

Elderly neighbour with visibly poor health swooped into a space next to mine, taking a gouge out my rear bumper and scraping the side of his – I was painting my window and watched it happen, whilst he was none the wiser.

Chapped the door and all the denials started, “wasn’t me, must’ve been someone else” etc etc. despite the damage (like in your case) matching and a transfer of matching paint.

Eventually I got the insurance details without having to escalate it, thankfully.

Be brutally honest – you shouldn’t have to be out of pocket, and he/she shouldn’t be out on the roads. What if its a kid next time that gets hit?

I don’t think it’s that simple….

As you say clipping with a bumper is fairly easy to do and not realise in modern cars.

As a bit of a counter my brother and I both spoke to my fathers doctor about revoking his license and the doctor was very hesitant.  He admitted off record that my father could be a danger but he said he was absolutely positive that taking away his car would lead to a immediate decline in health.  We were unconvinced at the time… but when it did happen the doctor was right.

My own neighbour (died last year) had a very similar situation… he clipped his doors etc. on a few occasions getting in/out of the garage. He had to go into hospital for an extended time and I ended up putting his car in the garage.   **** me if it wasn’t really difficult… I was really surprised he could get it in and out at all… it must have taken me 10 mins and then I had to wonder how he actually got out of the car… (in my defence it was a hybrid with all sorts of unfamiliar controls and someone-elses-car)

His niece (closest local relative) was the one saying he should have his driving taken away … so she came round to collect some stuff through the garage … I’d let her in (spare keys) and she came back round perhaps an hour later to ask me if I’d help her lift some stuff from the back of the garage…. Sure… why don’t you move the car out I asked… be much easier….

Turns out she’d spent most of the hour trying to get the car out and given up.

In my fathers case he possibly was dangerous… but he didn’t drive far and his scrapes were getting in and out of tight spots… in my neighbours case I was frankly amazed he’d been able to get the car in and out at all.  Even with the mirrors in there was <1″ of clearance and you have to turn sharply out …

So… are his fears grounded, is he really a danger (above 17yr old kids who just passed) ???  Dunno??? just worth putting into he mix.

He’s got glaucoma…..

I find it hard to believe that anyone would be unaware of the sensation of dragging their bumper up the side of another vehicle

It’s hard to believe until it happens … OH did it with me in the passenger seat… (the other vehicle was mine)

Modern soundproofing and cars designed to crumple… makes it a lot more silent than you’d think… Didn’t hear a thing…

He’s got glaucoma…..

Is deja vu a reportable condition? 🙂

Is deja vu a reportable condition?

If he has glaucoma only in one eye, he doesn’t have to inform DVLA

allthegear

Member
I wouldn’t be totally confident his insurance will pay out. I bet it end up with both insurance companies agreeing on 50/50 even though that’s obviously ridiculous. You will lose your no claims.

BUT, if his eyesight is an issue, report that. I have to ride on the road with people like that.

Rachel

I worked for a few years as a motor claims adjuster and I think that’s quite unlikely tbh.

The third party insurer will most likely either fully dispute or fully admit liability based on what their policy holder says and the evidence presented by the OP (matching paint damage, evidence of the fact he was away from home).

They won’t say ‘well you can’t prove it but it probably happened so here’s half’, because the proportion paid is based on their liability, and the OP has none since his car was parked at the time.

2k+ to sort. Insurance it is. He claims he has no recollection but the paint marks and height match his car and since no other car can use that stretch of road it limits the suspects!

Give him the opportunity to pay for the repair.

Push for this because of potential issues with insurance, and of course be very polite about it, but be very firm that if he doesn’t want to do that then you’ll report it as an accident (which he drove away from) and go down the insurance route.  Maybe a bit heavy, but him lying about it didn’t help himself morally.

This isn’t an issue about morals (he’s not exactly held the moral high ground by denying it happened), it’s more about the pity you have for him.

Save him from himself

He claims he has no recollection but the paint marks and height match his car and since no other car can use that stretch of road it limits the suspects!

This isn’t an issue about morals (he’s not exactly held the moral high ground by denying it happened), it’s more about the pity you have for him.

It’s pretty easy to do and not be aware.  I was in the car when OH hit mine on the drive… and it wasn’t until we got home I noticed.  She was still saying how it couldn’t be her … we’d have heard it even though the paint matched her car and she had a corresponding my paint on her car.

I think it’s the “but I’d have heard/felt something” that drives the denial…. in this case there were no consequences other than embarrassment for the OH but she found it very hard to accept.

get the cash.dob him in for the eyesight thing.

imagine how you will feel when he runs someone over,and you had previous knowledge of his condition.

My father is 88,and very ill,he insisted,he was capable of driving,we know he is a danger.

I took both sets of car keys away from him,4 months ago.

have now sold his car.

two days ago,he thanked me,and admitted it should of been done earlier.

thankfully,he has not injured himself,or others.

Happy ending.

I’d not show any sympathy for him. A man in his late 80s who could barely walk hit my car last year whilst he tried to overtake a cyclist on a blind bend. It wrote off my car, which was then undervalued by the insurers, cost me £2k to sort out on top of the payout and I have to go to court this September (the accident was last June…) so the accident management company I foolishly used can get their fee for the hire car back. If he hadn’t been allowed to drive it wouldn’t have happened.

Get him to pay, either through insurance or out of his own pocket, then get him reported.

re: stopping driving conversation, one method I know to work (seen a friend do it with an older relative) is to appeal to their wallet – compare the cost of ins/tax/fuel/servicing to the cost of taxis

I’d not show any sympathy for him. A man in his late 80s who could barely walk hit my car last year whilst he tried to overtake a cyclist on a blind bend.

Seems a bit rough blaming all octogenarians for the actions of one.

imagine how you will feel when he runs someone over,and you had previous knowledge of his condition.

My father is 88,and very ill,he insisted,he was capable of driving,we know he is a danger.

My father was dangerous as well… and we should have probably done the same.

However my neighbour was the same age and he was pretty sharp despite being barely able to walk.

I’d kinda judged him by my father and because he’d scratched his car up twice but after he died and I ended up getting his car in/out of his garage I realised I know a LOT of drivers wouldn’t even be able to get his car in/out of his garage.

This guy may or may not be dangerous … but simply being over 80 doesn’t make him so… certainly not compared to lots of 17yr olds just passed their tests.

Seems a bit rough blaming all octogenarians for the actions of one.

I’m blaming octogenarians that aren’t fit to drive for the actions of one, which the OP’s neighbour sounds like one of.

A chap at my old work lost his wife to car that mounted the pavement. Old fella, pedal confusion, 2 seconds later, no wife or mummy.

If he shouldn’t be on the road then don’t feel bad.

Man that’s made me all sad reading that last one 🙁

but simply being over 80 doesn’t make him so

I thought he had sight trouble.

but simply being over 80 doesn’t make him so

I thought he had sight trouble.

Yes but no different to anyone else with the same … where do you stop? Anyone that needs glasses ?

I’m blaming octogenarians that aren’t fit to drive for the actions of one, which the OP’s neighbour sounds like one of.

I don’t see how you can say that from the OP’s posts….

He might well be unfit to drive but I don’t see how you can get that from the posts.

A man in his late 80s who could barely walk hit my car last year whilst he tried to overtake a cyclist on a blind bend.

He might also have been unfit … but I don’t see how being barely able to walk is relevant.  (Assuming it wasn’t due to alcohol)

Lots of idiots take over on blind bends… and if you are looking at age then I’d guess the biggest sector are in the U21 group…  statistically (according to the Guardian) Older drivers represent 10% of all individuals holding a full licence and are involved in 6% of all road accidents. Of course holding a license isn’t driving but obviously if 10% represented 20% of accidents that would be more worrying…

If 4% aren’t driving even though they have a license then that puts them on average ..

Insurance route: denial of guily, excess and effect on premium.

I’d get him to pay, get a couple of quotes, or a new door from a scrappy?

Yes but no different to anyone else with the same … where do you stop? Anyone that needs glasses ?

Well, yes of course – if they don’t wear them.

see https://www.gov.uk/driving-eyesight-rules

Well, yes of course – if they don’t wear them.

Yes but the point is where do we draw the line on “not in perfect health”….

If his eyesight is otherwise acceptable why does his age matter ? (If he has glaucoma in one eye then why would that be any different because of his age)

It’s almost like an octogenarian has accident must be unfit to drive. That might be true… but it might not but it seems a lot of 2+2=5.

Lots of people have accidents every year…. very few manage 60 years of driving without any accident at all.  Scraping another car at low manoeuvring speeds and not realising it is a not really a yardstick… as I said my OH scraped my car and neither of us realised. I was actually quite surprised … I’ve backed into the wheely bin and it’s been a horrible noise but no damage … but OH hitting a car door panels really slowly .. I heard nothing.

Claim and report him to DVLA.

It might be time he stopped driving, I recently had to do this with a neighbour due to his confusion and terrible driving.  Initially his Doctor said he was fine but after he admitted losing his car in a car park for a day and that coupled with some cognition tests meant the Doctor revised his opinion and they agreedtogether that he should stop driving.  Yes it might end him early but how much quicker and sadder would it be if he had to live with killing someone.

What also has to be remembered is that being reported to the DVLA doesn’t mean losing your license.

The DVLA finding you unfit to drive means you lose your licence. This is an important point!

His age is irrelevant, but if he is bumping other cars and not noticing that is a worry, because it could easily be a person.

get the insurance to fix the car, but nip down the police station and have an informal chat with them about your concerns, they might do a routine stop on him, that way they can decide if he’s a danger.

fwiw, my grandfather stopped driving at 91 because he couldn’t feel the pedals, he did have a parking scrape a few years before that, but it was against the back of (his) tractor, so no need for insurance.

age is not necessarily a barrier to being a safe driver, plenty old boys and gals still driving around just fine.