Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 42 total)
  • What did you do when your mates bike is faster than yours?
  • tall_martin
    Full Member

    Hi!

    I tried a mates bike for a coupe of wee down hill runs today. I was much faster on his!

    (Waves at sentinel riding mate 🙂 )

    His felt more direct, like all pedaling had more effect. Cornering felt easier and faster, the bike was more poppy off the jump lips.

    I’m not buying a new bike- which was his suggestion 😂.

    Is it worth copying his set up? upping the fork pressure, compression damping and adding more rebound damping? I thought it was all set perfectly for me!

    More detail
    His bike- transition sentinel with fox 36 and fox shock dpx?. 160mm at the front 140mm at the back. Hunt alloy wheels. Much more compression damping front and rear. A bit more rebound damping.

    My bike- geometron g13 with pike up front and cane creek double coil Chinese carbon wheels. Slightly loose back wheel, softer tyres as it was muddy and I tried dropping some pressure to up my muddy confidence.

    Similar bike weights, almost identical tyres, same pedals, similar bar width, identical pedals, almost the same bar heights.

    Similar height, he’s a good chunk more padded, both bikes set for riders weight and preferances.

    Track smooth berms with a layer of sloppy mud and some small 50cm high table top jumps and a couple of 1m drops.

    Thanks for any suggestions ☺️

    argee
    Full Member

    Can you not set up your bike to be as fast, realistically the sentinel is a good old horst link design, so will more than likely have feel on the way down, but suffer a little on the way up, have you had a play with your settings, removing any compression, making sure rebound is a little slower to return and so on?

    Failing that, as you have worked out, it could be new bike time!

    andeh
    Full Member

    A G13 is probably not aimed at popping off jumps and carving smooth berms. How do the bikes compare on something a bit more serious?

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    chakaping
    Free Member

    Make one change at a time and see if it improves your bike or not.

    Sounds like the low-speed compression would be a good place to start.

    tall_martin
    Full Member

    We just did a couple of short DH bits and pedaled up a smooth steep fireroad to the top.

    I was bit miffed his was quicker so we did the same again and I put loads more effort in to ensure mine was faster on strava 🙄

    argee
    Full Member

    There’s only one choice, does your work do C2W https://www.mtbmonster.com/transition-sentinel-carbon-x01-grey-2021/

    ;o)

    tall_martin
    Full Member

    That is a bit pricey!😱

    Perhaps I’ll start with some more compression damping!

    argee
    Full Member

    Can’t put a price on happiness mate ;o)

    jim25
    Full Member

    I think your options are…
    Buy a new bike
    Or
    Get a new bike mate

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Bum your mates bike and hammer frozen sausages into your mate?

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    Suspension can be set up for speed or comfort (huge generalisation but go with me here) so there’s a good chance the reason you felt faster is simply that due to the “padding” your mates bike is just set up firmer than yours.

    lunge
    Full Member

    New bike or new mate.
    Either works.

    loverofminkys
    Full Member

    As the aforementioned mate with the faster bike , I reckon the correct answer definitely has nothing to with hammering frozen sausages!
    New frame and forks will sort it! (Or more hsc and lsc for a free change!)

    julians
    Free Member

    How much faster are we talking?

    And was it measurably faster in an accurate way, or just felt faster?

    Assuming it really was a lot faster….

    Sounds like the suspension on your g13 could be set up better, have a play with it

    trumpton
    Free Member

    If the suspension is stiffer it will feel faster

    loverofminkys
    Full Member

    In fairness my bike is definitely firmer, I like it set firmer anyway and I’m a good bit heavier, but the difference in speed was really noticeable over a short run.
    New bike for the win.

    tall_martin
    Full Member

    fast?

    fast?


    Waves, and learns mates stw identity ☺️
    I give up on the image

    1.02
    1.14
    1.02
    1.13 transition
    49 final run on my bike

    That’s today’s Strava.
    Second last is the “faster” run on the transition.

    I suspect the last one was fastest due to pedaling all the way to the muddy end instead of coasting after the last jump.

    So it probably was measurably faster if I did the test properly! It felt faster. Then I pedaled harder on my bike for the last run

    No new bike for the marital harmony 🙂

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    Well within the margin of error for Strava..

    bruneep
    Full Member

    lardman
    Free Member

    When he’s not looking- put loads and loads of ‘Stans fluid’ in his tyres. He won’t feel so sprightly then.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Not give a shit?

    jameso
    Full Member

    Track smooth berms with a layer of sloppy mud and some small 50cm high table top jumps and a couple of 1m drops.

    .. on a muddy but otherwise 4X-like track you found a (?bit shorter, bit less LLS?) geo bike set up for a heavier rider (firmer) cornered better and was more poppy, since it was a step or 2 closer toward a 4X bike set up.
    Take them both down a rocky/rooty and steeper track and see what they feel like?

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Double down! If I feel like I’m in danger of getting outbiked or outridden by a mate, I bring the hardtail, or if I’m feeling really threatened, the fatbike. Can’t lose in that situation “Yeah you were faster but look, I’m still alive, therefore I must be awesome”.

    (my main bike is actually really bloody good, it’s just stealthy about it as it’s old and battered. But there’s probably not many 2015 bikes still in use that are actually better, really. Don’t tell anyone)

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    we did the same again and I put loads more effort in to ensure mine was faster on strava

    So… do this.

    thols2
    Full Member

    I think your options are…
    Buy a new bike
    Or
    Get a new bike mate

    Another option is to keep a fleet of different bikes for different purposes. Start with three, obviously, so you have the extremes of the range covered, plus something in the middle, then fill in the gaps as needed. Also, women struggle to keep count of bikes after you have three, so you get a lot less unnecessary questions.

    BigJohn
    Full Member

    You only want things you haven’t got.

    ferrals
    Free Member

    E-bike surely?

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Whoever has most fun, wins.

    (One test track of less than a minute does not an accurate representation make)

    tall_martin
    Full Member

    fleet of different bikes for different purposes. Start with three, obviously,

    I’m up to 3 MTB plus a road bike. It’s getting difficult to move about in the garage so that’s the limiting factor at the moment:-)

    On the the MTB is a hardtail with 26″ wheels on a 27.5 frame. Maybe I should find a 26″ transition or banshee frame and swap the frame 🤔

    E-bike surely?

    I’ve promised myself an e bike when my 11 month son is getting faster than me ( full fast show competitive dad)

    Whoever has most fun, wins.

    (One test track of less than a minute does not an accurate representation make)

    Absolutely! My bike is fun, but the transition felt soooo much faster.

    boxelder
    Full Member

    I bet the wheelbase on yours is 100mm+ greater. Yours isn’t really designed for railing berms and popping off jumps is it. Ride elsewhere.

    joshvegas
    Free Member

    Stick, spokes.

    Use his down time to hit the gym, get a jedi course, diet, session the section and save for a new bike.

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    I just checked the specs on the link agree posted.

    29.5 wheels. There’s your answer.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    Plenty of good humourous responses here, but seriously…
    Is the situation repeated on different types of trail?
    Are you dropping him on steeper, more technical tracks?

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    From what you wrote in the OP it’s sounds like you rode a firmer setup bike (for a heavier rider?), with a shorted wheelbase, on a smoother trail with some poppy lips and some fun corners, and it seemed a bit better.

    But this was only in one limited setting, on that trail in those conditions it was better, by how much exactly? And how do the two bike compare on rougher trails, or for a longer full day of pedalling up and down?

    I’d just re-evaluate what you already have, try a bit more tyre pressure, maybe more fork pressure and speed up the damping? (One thing at a time) and see if any of it improves your bike on that specific the trail… Then try it on some different trails and see if it’s actually a general improvement or not…

    julians
    Free Member

    A few observations

    – The average speed on those runs is not very high for a downhill trail – I suspect on a faster trail things might even out. A slow trail might favour a more nimble bike, a fast trail might favour a monster truck. Different bikes suit different types of trail – if the other bike is objectively faster on this one, chances are it will be slower on some other types of trail – maybe you never ride the other types of trail?
    – Your last run on your bike was around 13 seconds faster than your fastest run on his bike, I dont think you can yet conclude that his bike is objectively faster on this trail- yet!
    – You’re not racing – so does it matter?
    – Get tweaking the suspension – but like everything its all a compromise , there is no one setting that is fastest everywhere, and you’re not going to alter the suspension for every trail, so find the compromise your most happy with and accept it will be slower in some circumstances.
    – What were your mates times on this trail on his bike and then on your bike? was he also slower on your bike?

    thegeneralist
    Free Member

    Whoever has most fun, wins.

    Alex Lowe?

    joebristol
    Full Member

    It looks like size for the size the Sentinel is longer in reach / longer in the chainstays and slacker head angle. The G13 is listed as a trail bike but it’s very much at the extreme end of ‘trail’ and looks like it would excel on steep tech / fast rocky stuff, but probably be less playful than the Sentinel.

    I guess you’ve got to think about what’s most fun for your riding / your mix of types of riding. Do you do more poppy / bermy flow trails or is more of your riding steep slow tech or flat out fast Rocky uplifting etc.

    If none of the latter then maybe you’re not in the ideal bike for you and something shorter / steeper might be more fun. If you do a lot of tech riding then the G13 is probably a great option.

    Maybe play with shock / fork pressures and any low speed compression settings you have to make the bike pedal a bit better / be a bit more reactive – but at the expense of plushness. Write down what you’re on now and what feels better on certain types of terrain and have a couple of sets of settings.

    tall_martin
    Full Member

    I got an unexpected last min pass from my Mrs today and went back for a play.

    I stuck some offset bushings I had in the shock.

    Felt better, easier to zoom round the berms

    The bushings altered the bar angle so fiddled with that. The front end felt a bit lower, that felt earlier to put weight on the front in the mud.

    I added a bit more low and high speed compression to the shock. I was aiming for low speed compression but by this point the bike was caked in mud and both dials turned together . This was better in the turns, but felt odd landing the jumps. I left it at that.

    I tried the fork in the middle compression position. This was good on the smooth stuff. As soon as I hit a hidden off camber wet root it was tuned back to fully open.

    And that was time up.

    The Strava segments that triggered yesterday didn’t trigger today. No idea why as it was the same trails. Strava in not perfect shock😂

    I was quicker everywhere than yesterday. I was pedaling a lot harder and felt a lot more commited today. O had a few Strava segments in the top 10% out of 700 odd, which is quick for me especially in the mud.

    Geometry geeks comparison

    I guess you’ve got to think about what’s most fun for your riding / your mix of types of riding

    This area is new to me. Normally I’d have to drive 1-3 hours to a trail center to get jumps and berms. The bike has been built for steep natural stuff. It’s been interesting to try set up that’s so different and try and replicate it.

    Write down what you’re on now and what feels better on certain types of terrain

    I have loads of notes about what different setting were like in different places. Normally I just find a happy medium that’s fine everywhere as I can’t be bothered fiddling every ride. Most places I ride aren’t too different from the others.

    oikeith
    Full Member

    Add 20PSI to your fork and shock and go for a ride, dont like it drop 10PSI and try again, worst case you drop another 10PSI and are back where you started!

    Id toy with air pressure before rebound and compression and then adjust these to match the increased air pressure.

    tall_martin
    Full Member

    The shock is coil at 25% sag. Correct spring for my weight on that bike according to the tf tuned spring calculator.
    The fork is at 20% sag.

    The fork only managed 130mm travel both days- there were no hard impacts or heavy landings. With that number of tokens and air it almost bottoms if I slam it into something.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 42 total)

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