What chest protection for hitting a tree

Just thought I would share my experience of yesterday’s crash at quite some speed which has caused a pneumothorax of my right lung, a lot of pain and difficulty breathing.

I lost control and hit a large tree, 2-3 metres diameter, full on my right chest, front and to the right side. I was absolutely winded for a few minutes, couldn’t breathe in. Eventually managed to get some of my breath back but was in agony in all different positions and couldn’t talk. Diagnosis from hospital, xrays, blood tests, mri etc showed no broken ribs, no internal bleeding but a 2cm pneumothorax and enzymes indicative to heart bruising apparently. Feeling much better now and under observation.

So now, after searching for chest protection, I’m not sure anything would have prevented the outcome of that impact. D30, foam, articulated plastic etc I think would all just transfer the same force.

Any similar experiences or thoughts?

You are correct. In high energy injuries where you meet an immovable object at speed a lot of the body injuries are actually caused by internal shearing forces from the rapid deceleration. Body armor that was strong enough to protect you from this would essentially be strong enough to protect you from a fall from height, and such a thing doesn’t really exist.

Where the heck did you find a tree that big?
Are you in Sequoia National Park?

Blimey, that sounds grim. Glad you are still here and going to be back riding soon…

So now, after searching for chest protection, I’m not sure anything would have prevented the outcome of that impact. D30, foam, articulated plastic etc I think would all just transfer the same force.

Any similar experiences or thoughts?

Sounds like a decent wack, and you’re right, nothing is going to prevent the outcome when you get it properly wrong, forget the marketing bullshit, you’re putting 10mm of foam/plastic between you and a tree, it’s going to hurt. What you’re looking to do is reduce the severity of the injuries and reduce the chances of puncture wounds and abrasions which can cause more complications on top of any primary injuries.

In principle foam could certainly reduce both the force and the energy of the impact significantly, whether it’s practical is another matter. The measure of the impact is the change in momentum, impulse = force x time so spreading it over more time (due to crushing of the foam) means lower peak forces and also less energy left to be dissipated by your body. Same as in bike helmets and other stuff.

I have no idea how much practical value there is in body armour, but it’s not correct to say that it just can’t do anything at all.

Circumference, circumference, I meant circumference! I blame the meds for that error 😎.

I lost the front wheel on a primary root of the tree at its base, so it was instant impact. No time to decelerate before impact.

Shit happens and it hurts sometimes. Could have been a lot worse and glad I’ll be able to ride again sometime. It’s been a humbling reminder of how a lot of the consequences are out of our control, even with the all the necessary equipment on offer.

I have no idea how much practical value there is in body armour, but it’s not correct to say that it just can’t do anything at all.

Body armour does have a place, mainly at protecting from abrasion, and spreading the force of an impact across a wider area. However for deceleration forces, 1cm of armour will make little to no difference.

Same for helmets Kramer?🙄😜🤔😇

A few seconds of googling finds that (a) level 2 body armour standards specify much lower peak forces than level 1, so even if level 1 is literally useless, the commonly available level 2 stuff is certainly a lot better than nothing (from the peak force POV which seems the primary concern) and (b) some stuff is 1.5 or even 2cm thick and exceeds the level 2 standards by a very large margin, meaning correspondingly lower peak forces. That doesn’t mean that the most severe crashes will be rendered harmless, of course.

@tjagain – helmets are about 4-5cm so I think they’ve got more room to control deceleration in, however they’ve got limitations too.

No idea on the science, but I took a tumble down a steep granite slope wearing an old school Dianese jacket thing last year. I was completely unscathed. Not a mark, obviously much lower forces and my jersey looked like it had been attacked by an angry cat.

Twenty years ago, when I broke my wrist, a bit of flint took a large chunk out of the centre of a spine protector, my back was fine.

No idea on the science, but I took a tumble down a steep granite slope wearing an old school Dianese jacket thing last year. I was completely unscathed. Not a mark, obviously much lower forces and my jersey looked like it had been attacked by an angry cat.

Twenty years ago, when I broke my wrist, a bit of flint took a large chunk out of the centre of a spine protector, my back was fine.

Skills, that’s definitely the way to do it, if you can, try not to hit anything square on 😀 It’s the rapid deceleration that’s the problem. Glancing off stuff and tumbling is much preferred, only real risk is maybe a broken limb, heals quicker than soft tissue damage though.

I do a lot of enduro (motorbike) and end up on the floor regularly, flung over the front, back or off the sides onto all sorts, sometimes the bike decides to hit me too, which is nice. Decent gear is a must, motocross boots, knee braces, padded shorts, body armour that covers abdomen, ribcage, chest, back, shoulders, elbows/forearms, neck brace and helmet, you still feel it. Worst so far was having the bike land on me and the handlebar end hitting me in the thigh, like superman had flown down and given me a dead leg 🙁

I believe what you’d want is a Holtzman shield, like what they’ve got in Dune.

Is the tree okay?

Heal quickly, view all roots with proportionate suspicion.

Does having armour, whilst thin help to distribute the force at all? Either way if you can find one with say 10mm of padding that will be better than nothing. 10mm isn’t much to decelerate in but it is more than nil. I had some shorts several years ago with hard shell but some sort of semi rigid foam protection pads about 10mm thick in it.

Or what about those inflating horsey coats?! Need to leave the horse (or bike) for it to work so maybe no help in this scenario.

Does having armour, whilst thin help to distribute the force at all? Either way if you can find one with say 10mm of padding that will be better than nothing. 10mm isn’t much to decelerate in but it is more than nil. I had some shorts several years ago with hard shell but some sort of semi rigid foam protection pads about 10mm thick in it.

Or what about those inflating horsey coats?! Need to leave the horse (or bike) for it to work so maybe no help in this scenario.

Yes it’ll distribute the force and is certainly better than nothing.

Do you mean the airbag vests? if so I’ve tested one, thoroughly 😀
I used to race short circuits, mainly Oulton park and Anglesey, stopped early last year. I’ve had a number of high and low speed offs over the years, some with body armour only (I use the latest Knox armour) and the last big off was whilst wearing a gps/sensor controlled airbag. I’ll take the airbag any day, it really is a game changer.

Kramer
Free Member

@tjagain – helmets are about 4-5cm so I think they’ve got more room to control deceleration in, however they’ve got limitations too.

The nature of the impacts is really different too. Like, you can hit your head really hard if you try hard enough, but it’s still on a floppy hinge on the end of your body, it’s got way more ability to bounce off/deflect, and it doesn’t have your core weight in it. Likewise legs, occasionally you’ll land on a bent knee with your weight 100% behind it but mostly you don’t.

But your torso always has it’s own weight behind it and can’t really dissipate that at all by movement, and usually also the weight of a chunk of the weight of your arms, legs, head too. Anything you hit chest first, you’re always going to hit with a huge amount of your body weight.

How’s the bike?

#standardsareslipping

Please tell me I’m not the only one who has to Google pneumothorax….. 😐

For those who knew it was a collapsed lung, you should get out and ride a bit more (with the exception of Kramer).

I think they’re are some impacts/crashes where your best protection is skill or luck.

Bruised ribs still hurt like buggery.

Good luck op.

Ride slower? Would better body armour result in risk compensation and higher speed?

The best way of avoiding injury is not crashing.

Healing vibes OP.

It seems a common thing for injured people to look for specific bits of armour after a nasty crash, but – unless it’s cut knees or elbows – there’s probably not an effective fix in most situations.

Big pads on the trees, like they use for DH racing, must be the only real answer 😀

@Northwind, the problem then being that your brain is rattling around inside it whilst that’s going on…

The week after I did similar against a Mercedes, someone died of cardiac arrest at Swinley hitting a tree like you did. Sudden stops imparts a lot of energy. I don’t think there is much that’s going to help you I’m afraid. Heal fast. Btw I broke my sternum and five ribs including the top two. And had a haemothorax. Consider yourself lucky.

In the motorcycle world some people use airbags, not sure if it can transfer to a MTB.
https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/544553

At DH races they often wrap thick padding round the trees. Really it should be wrapped around the riders.

Dunno why no one’s thought of that before, really. Seems obvious.

I mean just look at all these rocks:

If that padding was on the rider instead of the tree it would be a lot more useful in a crash.

Thanks for the healing vibes.

I’ve now had to have a drain fitted as the air volume outside the lung increased, posing a risk for full collapse.

I was also thinking an airbag system would be a viable precaution to absorb the energy and I’m glad it is already existing and in development. Activating it at the right time might be a challenge!

Airbag systems are bulky and heavy.

Someone was hawking them a few years at the bike show, I wouldn’t want to be cycling with one.

Airbag systems are bulky and heavy

Presumably an airbag vest would also go off every time you crash – on a motorbike that might make economic sense on a mountain bike where crashes aren’t normally as bad it could be expensive quickly,

Probably a better request would have been what tyres for wet roots?

Is the bike ok?

GWS

(Priorities).

In the motorcycle world some people use airbags, not sure if it can transfer to a MTB.

thing is you need to trigger it by either an accelerometer type thing, or a safety cord.

Saftey cord is no good if you are still attached or nearly attached to the bike.

accelerometer needs to detect when you are having a crash (not when you are hitting a tree, thats too late). problem is, how to detect that?

You can have a high force wobble, slide, hard landing that you save (and really dont want your vest exploding while doing so)

You can have a front wheel washout or tomahawk yourself OTB very smoothly (until the point where you hit a hard tree or rock and stop suddenly)

Like with any tech, things will get smaller, lighter, more ergonomic and user friendly in time.

I’m sure there is every possibility to make something like the vest in the link above adaptable for mtb. But there really needs to be a specific set of parameter triggers to activate it through accelerometers or G switch, possibly attached to the bike, as that is what will tend to sense the conflicting motion, and sent to the protection, wirelessly.

The tech is probably already in existence, it just needs the will and the market to produce something.

The bike seemed OK as I tried to wheel it down the hill afterwards. But haven’t had the chance to give it a thorough inspection yet.

Wrt the wet roots, if only that was an excuse. The track was as dry as a bone. I was trying to get through an annoying section a bit cleaner and paid the price that’s all.