Labour has won in Derbyshire, awesome – looking forward to land redistribution and the bringing down of the landowning classes, starting with the Duke of Devonshire. Pitchfork and torch ready for the storming of Chatsworth.

Derbyshire now

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6KXgjLqSTg[/video]

Just when you thought UKIP were bad enough, now they’ve inspired the posting of a Disturbed video.

Line crossed Farage, line crossed.

Just listened to London Calling(album).

Open eyes, oh look it’s 2013. Apparently.

sigh

If the main political parties want to get rid of this bothersome fly called UKIP then just have a referendum on Europe,in or out ,before the next election.When we all vote to stay in then UKIP’s stance on immigration and the wasteful EU will be dead in the water.
We will all be voting to stay in the EU won’t we ?

Thats part of the problem. In the 80’s music and comedy was providing an alternative view to the media message. Without a bombastic war to get jingoist about, thatcher would have been a 1 term PM. Now “call me dave” doesn’t need a war, there is no alternative message.

Never more has Spitting Image needed reviving.

We will all be voting to stay in the EU won’t we ?

Hell yes!

When the trade deal is done between the EU and the US do you want to be on the inside or the outside? The idea that the UK will be allowed to benefit without contributing to the EU is just ridiculous.

I’m in favour of a Euro referendum as long as it’s before Autumn 2014. Can’t we do it the same time as the Euro elections?

Pigface – Member
…he thinks Ukip are the future and so do his mates. Interesting times ahead indeed

I’ve just looked at the results for Cambridgesshire. Either UKIP will fade away back to nothing, or we’re in for some very interesting times. And not in a good way.

they’ve grown up in an almost constant state of war with a never ending onslaught of xenophobic right wing propaganda from the media..
The recent political coup that brought an unelected Tory government to power has propagated a massive shift in social morality as far as I can see..

That’s exactly the same as the line posted again and again the Telegraph’s comments section, but turned on its head: the endless onslaught of the left wing multicultural media, etc etc. I’m beginning to suspect the media is about right, given the amount of hate it inspires on both left and right wings.

Oh, and the current government was elected democratically, you may argue the system is flawed but that could be said about any democratic system, including PR.

Suddenly the wavering independence voters in Scotland take a lurch to vote “Yes”…

Oh, and the current government was elected democratically

figure of speech old bean, simply a figure of speech.. never let the truth get in the way of a good story as our old friend Chopper Read once said..

the bloody UKIP have stolen the seat in my ward.. 🙁

the current government was elected democratically

You seriously think that the way the Liberal Democrats have behaved has been an excise in
democracy ? To totally abandon their pre-election policies, eg, VAT increases, bonuses for bankers, tuition fees, nuclear power, NHS reorganisation, police numbers, etc, and take a diametrically opposed position represents democracy ?

Yeah, they might have been elected, but there was nothing democratic about it. It was straightforward fraud. If they had been selling a product or service then they could have expected to be prosecuted.

Yeah, they might have been elected, but there was nothing democratic about it. It was straightforward fraud. If they had been selling a product or service then they could have expected to be prosecuted.

Go on then, define “democratic”. It wasn’t fraud, electoral “promises” aren’t binding in any legal sense. Morally, no doubt. But not legally.

aren’t binding in any legal sense

If you check my post you’ll notice that I made that point.

Go on then, define “democratic”. It wasn’t fraud, electoral “promises” aren’t binding in any legal sense. Morally, no doubt. But not legally.

democracy derives from government of the people. the people decide on the government they want based on what candidates promise to do.

to act in complete opposite to the promises made makes a complete mockery of democracy and ‘fraud’ seems to be a fairly accurate description to me

The whole system is utterly fnucked. Farage and his cohorts are just proof that the liberal democracy of the west is every bit as corrupt and pointless as any of the other systems of government. My solution is to ignore the lot and concentrate on my family, neighbours and friends.

Not the polish family from up the road of course but everyone else.

If you check my post you’ll notice that I made that point.

So we agree, excellent.

democracy derives from government of the people. the people decide on the government they want based on what candidates promise to do.

Except promises aren’t legally binding. Perhaps they should be, although I’m not sure that the government that comes out of it would be particularly effective – after all promises are made on the basis of current knowledge of the situation, if that information is incomplete or changes…

Maybe a compromise, 100 days of doing what they promised?

So we agree, excellent.

I don’t think we do.

Unless of course you agree that the way the Liberal Democrats wangled their way to power/government wasn’t democratic ?

It was straightforward fraud.

Fraud : A person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.

We will all be voting to stay in the EU won’t we

NO like Turkeys we will vote for Christmas like lemmings we will jump off the cliff etc

the one thing you dont want to do in the middle of an economic crisis is to leave the large organisation you do most of your trade with. I dont actually understand why they think this will help tbh…has anyone any idea what UKIP think this will do the economy?

Ernie is correct the bungled coalition and the capitualtion of the LIb dems is many things but democracy in action is not one of them
Clegg has really **** the Lib Dems for at least a generation he could even kill them tbh.
Yes they have achieved some things and tempered the most bastardly elements of tory policy but the list of lines they would not cross is rather long and [ even for a politician] you cannot trust them. Voting lib dem is like voting for a lucky dip

We are to make that the voter has had enough of the Tory cartel and their kleptocracy, but is in a state of flux as to who to vote for because of the shower that constitute our political parties.

Agree with ernie as well – loads of embezzlement going on, whether it be broken manifesto promises or the dispersal of public funds.

wrecker – Member
LOL @ the elitists suggesting that university somehow makes your vote worth more…..
Intelligence isn’t the sole preserve of the well-off university going, bank of mum and dad raiding middle class you know.

Ha ha, this /\.

Great summery of the stw usuals conceted view on just about anything.

the one thing you dont want to do in the middle of an economic crisis is to leave the large organisation you do most of your trade with.

That might carry more weight if the eurozone economies were in rude health….but they’re not, i fail to see how leaving the EU would make things any worse for the UK.

Do people really believe that european firms would stop doing business with UK companies?….business knows no boundaries and being a member state or not will not make a jot of difference, Norway and Switzerland seem to manage.

Imagine how much more money Germany could have spent on its own people and services if it hadnt had to pour billions down the drain propping up failing member states….that is the appeal for me.
Britain contributes £10bn to the EU….what was the magic number for economic cuts this government had to make?….the 6 billion in cuts is covered in one fell swoop by keeping that 10bn.

It wouldnt be so bad if new members were bringing something to the party…but thats not what is happening, for me the EU would have worked if healthy economies converged and created a united front of wealth to rival that of the US, China etc….the reality however is that countries like Poland, Bulgaria and Romania join for what they can get out of it….Britain’s rebate was reduced so that farming could be subsidised in these new member states!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-contribution-to-eu-reaches-1639bn-a-year-2256631.html

You couldnt make it up.

The EU seems to want to expand constantly for no other reason than expansion alone….as it does this countries like Greece and Cyprus get swept up and spat out and countries like Germany bleed money to keep the illusion going.
Like is said, i really cant envisage an apocalyptic future just because we’re not an EU member state….that kind of nonsense is simply scaremongering.

UKIP lost the only seat they had in Nottinghamshire

Imagine how much more money Germany could have spent on its own people and services if it hadnt had to pour billions down the drain propping up failing member states….that is the appeal for me.

I think you’ll find that Germany has been propping up failed banks, not so much failed member states. And Germany has been one of the biggest beneficiaries of monetary union. It has also done very well out of the Eurozone crisis.

Eurozone crisis saves Germany tens of billions

I agree that Britain should leave the EU though.

Great summery of the stw usuals conceted view on just about anything.

Spellcheck.

That’s a really interesting and entertaining contribution, Piemonster.

I liked it.

the real danger of all of this is the prospect of the tories moving to the right to recapture their disenfranchised support and being re elected with both a majority and a manifesto further to the right than they have now.

now that worries me.

You’re all worrying unnecessarily. With all this new found political fame Farage is bound to be jet setting around the UK in a Light aircraft again.

It’s difficult for us to know what to make of it when NF (strangely appropriate initials? No I am exaggerating now!) stated on the radio yesterday that it is hard to tell how much of UKIP’s success was down to protest votes or a positive vote for their policies. Given the shallowness of their policy platform it is is easy to dismiss this as a protest vote but I think that this is wrong. There is more to this albeit not to the extent of the coverage that the results suggest. Nonetheless, the main parties have been foolhardy to dismiss UKIP as clowns etc and have had their noses suitably bloodied. In order, the Lib Dems, the Tories and then Labour. They need to answer the question I posed before, how does a party led by NF ( almost a caricature of the nice but dim broker that died out after Big Bang), with dubious candidates and a shallow policy platform do so well?

It is not good criticising democracy when it serves up the result that people do not like. There is a strong message that heralds the start of major change in Europe. The gulf between Europe’s citizens and the civil servants who ARE MEANT TO SERVE THEM (not vice versa) has stretched to breaking point. In some cases, this has resulted in non-elected political beings imposing extreme economic conditions on the citizens with little accountability. It goes without saying that the policies that can result in double digit contractions in GDP, 50%+ unemployment among the youth, collapse in services and increasing disorder are the wrong ones.

Perhaps the clowns and those who vote for them are not as stupid as first appearances may suggest?

I do think that the Toies are having their M&S moment. They are losing contact with their core base. As one bloke put it on the radio yesterday, DC is a liberal with a blue tie on. I do not agree with that, but the point is still a good one. Once again they will suffer from internal tears in the buld up to 2015. Cleggs stuffed, so that leaves Milliband to re-enact his own Kinnock moment but without the € retirement home as a back up plan!

edsbike – Member

The Greens have more councillors than UKIP. Media only going nuts over the right wing xenophobes though.

mefty – Member

Pretty sure that won’t be the case at the end of today.

It’s difficult to get any information on how well the Green Party did on thursday, because as the principle left-wing party in these elections the establishment/media have imposed severe self-censorship on it, whilst of course providing UKIP with acres of morale boosting free media coverage.

But it would appear the Greens won 141 seats and UKIP won 144, so yes, UKIP ended up with 3 councillors more than the Greens.

the real danger of all of this is the prospect of the tories moving to the right to recapture their disenfranchised support and being re elected with both a majority and a manifesto further to the right than they have now.

That would be a very poor strategy on the part of the Tories if they responded in that way.

If they attempt to steal UKIP’s clothes they will simply be seen to be reenforcing what UKIP are saying, to which the logical conclusion for potential UKIP voters is to vote UKIP. The Tories won’t be able to out-bigot UKIP.

A far more effective way for the Tories to confront any perceived threat from UKIP would be to use the formidable media machine at their disposal to expose and attack UKIP’s policies as unacceptable and unworkable, ie from a more left-wing perspective.

Of course one of the niggling problems with that strategy is that UKIP do not have much in the way of clearly stated and defined policies which to expose and attack (Farage has been known to make up policy on the hoof – such as scrapping flat rate tax) Indeed it is this lack of clearly stated and defined policies which contributed greatly to UKIP’s success on thursday.

It’s difficult to get any information on how well the Green Party did on thursday,

You could just go to the results page on the BBC website

results

But it would appear the Greens won 141 22 seats and UKIP won 144 147, so yes, UKIP ended up with 3 125 councillors more than the Greens in the seats fought on Thursday.

Sorry st george my figures were for total number of councillors.

Instead of moaning on an mtb website, ukip have had a proper stab at the open-door immigration policy that’s been glossed over for the last how ever many years and for that they should applauded.

A far more effective way for the Tories to confront any perceived threat from UKIP would be to use the formidable media machine at their disposal to expose and attack UKIP’s policies as unacceptable and unworkable, ie from a more left-wing perspective.

don’t get me wrong, i really hope you’re right in what you’re saying but surely the electorate would have already exposed ukip’s unworkable policies if they had voted for them on those alone ? i get the feeling that people are voting and will vote ukip for very shallow reasons – because ukip appear to be against the things that annoy them – rather than because they have a workable manifesto

immigration has never been popular amongst the electorate as far as I can see.. so in a democratic society, can anyone tell me why there has been an unwanted ‘open door policy’ for so long..?

is it for economic reasons..?

because ukip appear to be against the things that annoy them – rather than because they have a workable manifesto

UKIP have won in my ward… I reckon it could be quite interesting to push their political agenda to the limit, and see what a small local pressure group could get them to agree to in the interest of keeping voters happy.. 😀

patriotpro – Member

….the open-door immigration policy that’s been glossed over for the last how ever many years

If you followed the news you would have seen that open-door immigration policy has been regularly challenged. Although talking about it has little consequence and is fairly pointless as it is a requirement of EU membership.