It has nothing to do with national pride though – especially as most of the bigger clubs have more oversees players and are owned by foreign owners/investors.

Fergie ought to be giving the hairdryer treatment to Rafael, his silly cards lost it for them IMO.

My worry is that it suggests a certain level of racism disguised by the veneer of football tribalism/support.

edit: has teamyeti had a ban/cooling off period enforced 'pon his ass?

It has nothing to do with national pride though – especially as most of the bigger clubs have more oversees players and are owned by foreign owners/investors.

Hmmm, lets get this straight

Big club
Based in England for over 100yrs
Fan Base for vast majority of that time British
Vast majority of players over last 100yrs – British
British owners for the vast majority of the 100yrs

So just because there has been an influx of foriegn ownership and players over the last 10yrs we have to let all that history go to waste. See all them United supporters wearing their green and yellow scarves, they would beg to differ.

I am English and support Newcastle United, but in Europe I always hope the English teams lose as a purely Newcastle function. If the English team wins, they get richer, making it harder for the Toon to compete against them in the future. The inequality gets greater etc etc. So as a Toon fan I could never support another to the detriment of my team.

I am also an ABU because Fergie is an arrogant shite

surfer. A group of people support a privately owned business by buying their products annually, wishing them on, tattooing the name of the company on their arm with '4 ever' and then exposing their impressionable children to the sponsor's whose names are 'we like to gamble dot com' etc.

Ontop of this people who support other private companies are treated like Satans children and must be glassed or jeered at (depending whether your son or wife is with you at the time).

Whereas Rugby is full of real hardmen actually on the pitch. Did I mention that I don't like football or the people that base their lives round it?

"Them and us" is natural up to a point in a game which has to have winners and losers. As a Liverpool fan I like it when we beat other teams and hate to lose. My friends and relatives support lots of different teams and we make fun of each others results etc.
They are all natural emotions and reactions that neither lead me to "glass" "jeer" (ok maybe a bit!) others.
One doesnt lead necessarily to the other and "them versus us" may be necessary but doesnt always have to be particularly negative.

I am English and support Newcastle United, but in Europe I always hope the English teams lose as a purely Newcastle function. If the English team wins, they get richer, making it harder for the Toon to compete against them in the future.

And there is Newcastle's delusion of grandeuer summed up. Just promoted from the championship and they still think that they're in a position to compete with Man Utd etc.
Hear's the news, you've never been a top club and having all the fans in the world will never give you a heritage of success.

Two teams played one won,one lost & that's football('cept when it's a draw of course).Why people have to get so deep about it is beyond me…….

Its when people call it the 'beautiful game' that baffles me. I really don't get that. Is it meant ironic.

Maybe Italian football. Not English on a pisswet-February night as Shrek of Manure runs into someone and their fans munch on more fried food in the stands.

Hmmm, lets get this straight

Big club
Based in England for over 100yrs
Fan Base for vast majority of that time British
Vast majority of players over last 100yrs – British
British owners for the vast majority of the 100yrs

So just because there has been an influx of foriegn ownership and players over the last 10yrs we have to let all that history go to waste. See all them United supporters wearing their green and yellow scarves, they would beg to differ.
And owned by the Glazers. Americans. Come on – don't kid yourself. club history has nothing to do with how most clubs are going now – not just Man U and what I said wasn't directed at just Man U so stop trying to defend what is indefendable as it is clear fact.

Rafael sold the jerseys IMO – needless first booking, then should have looked up and put Rooney or Nani in when he burst into the box at 3-0. Utd would have been out of sight then. Robben's goal however, was a thing of beauty.

Forza Bayern, for a couple of reasons – first, my grandad played for them (after WW2, Allied servicemen made up several senior teams in Germany and got football back up and running) and secondly, the German rules on club ownership just look so sensible compared with the corporate lunacy found in the Premiership. Bayern Munich is not exactly a workers' co-op, but its a long way from being a debt sponge on the balance sheet of some offshore company.

mastiles_fanylion – Member

Hmmm, lets get this straight

Big club
Based in England for over 100yrs
Fan Base for vast majority of that time British
Vast majority of players over last 100yrs – British
British owners for the vast majority of the 100yrs

So just because there has been an influx of foriegn ownership and players over the last 10yrs we have to let all that history go to waste. See all them United supporters wearing their green and yellow scarves, they would beg to differ.

And owned by the Glazers. Americans. Come on – don't kid yourself. club history has nothing to do with how most clubs are going now – not just Man U and what I said wasn't directed at just Man U so stop trying to defend what is indefendable as it is clear fact.

That makes no sense at all.

I didnt say Man u arent owned by foriegn owners. I pointed out that a Large portion of their fans are against foriegn ownership and are rightfully proud of their past. Something you have just dismissed in one sentenc,e that because foriegn ownership is currently more popular its the way things should be. Lets ask Portsmouth fans how they feel about foriegn ownership.

club history has nothing to do with how most clubs are going now and that is because of attitudes like your won.

95% of Newcasle fans have there head in the clouds, I've worked with them for years.

I'm waiting for the "Europe, here we come" or "Top 4 next season for us".

Silly, silly Geordies! 😆

Whos_Daddy sadly very true. Personally 17th would do me next season, but its only a matter of time before all the idiots start demanding 100million to be spent and booing at the first sign of a struggle. Newcastle has the potential to be massive, but it never will be simply because the fans aren't patient enough and get on the owners / managers backs constantly…

Newcastle has the potential to be massive

They have a very good following, 40,000 plus for most home games & take the full allocation (generally) for away games (fact), but they will never win an FA Cup or even get anywhere near the European places as they either buy overrated players on stupid contracts (Alan Smith, Gerami, etc) or just rubbish.

They might do a little better next season but still end up it the bottom half.

has yetiboy been kidnapped by the krauts? he's gone a bit quiet…

I'd have more respect for Man Utd if Fergie wasn't such a graceless sore loser. And a hypocrite. Screaming about the mistake the ref and linesman made in the Chelsea game for Drogba's goal, but said nothing about Macheda's handball! Arrogant Baconface. Always good to see him pissed off.

As for getting behind 'English' clubs; as a general rule, maybe, if it's someone like Fulham against Hand-Grenade Leningrad or whoever, but I'm not too fussed really. Support who you like. I'm going to root for Spain in the World Cup, after England, as I think they're a fantastic team.

I like Barcelona, because I like the club's ethos, their spirit and it's a wonderful city. I'd like to see them win the CL again, because they are such a fantastic team at the moment. I think Mourinho's a great manager, and it was fun to see Inter beat his old club.

I rooted for Man Utd against Chelsea in the CL final a couple of years ago, because I don't like the way Chelsea have bought success. The Abrahamovic Factor is the reason why we're seeing so many clubs suffer financially, and why the gap between 'rich and poor' is growing all the time. I really really don't want to see Man City suddenly start winning things, just because they've got tons of money. They simply haven't 'earned' success. At least Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal have. Granted, success brings money which brings success etc, but Man City and Chelsea were mediocre clubs suddenly elevated purely due to money, nothing else.

I'd prefer Chelsea to win the EPL this season, just to see Fergie pissed off again. And then see Man Utd go on a slump which forces Fergie to leave. Sick and tired of him tbh. Brilliant manager, but nasty and disrespectful to others.

Its when people call it the 'beautiful game' that baffles me. I really don't get that.

Little tip: Don't watch it then! You don't have to, you know.

40,000 for championship yeah, but 50,000+ for Premiership games. plue the merchandise revenue is huge at Newcastle. Now ashley has a wage cap in place I hope we've seen the last of the overpaid players that crippled us financially for so long. with good managenment at all levels the potential is there to be massive both in terms of support and in terms of winning stuff. Not for many years though…

Nani played so well too.

Rafael is always lashing out and getting sent off -lucky he didn't didn't get sent off in the 1st half after he was fouled and he retalliated.

Dam if only they held out.

Oh well they won the Carling cup at least…

I am waiting to see when the shouts start for the return of Shearer. If the toon ditch Hughton they deserve to go straight back down.

On Newcastle as a whole. The premiership is better when they are involved and when they were playing well it really did make for exciting football.

Football in general is sick to the core. It induces a sort of base tribalism that you don't see in any other sports. I've often been disgusted at the way it's made me feel in the past myself.

There's just no logic to it. Maybe that's what people like about it.

I've been a plastic scouser since I was a kid. There are only two good reasons: I grew up in the seventies in Ireland where Liverpool were pretty much the team of choice…always having had lots of Irish players (not any more though) but probably more influenced by the fact that the kids I wanted to play football with in primary school when I was around seven were all Liverpool fans so when they asked me who my favourite team was, there was always going to be only one answer. Then we would play against the Leeds (Johnny Giles) kids and the Arsenal (Liam Brady) kids. I think I have disingenuously claimed that it was because my dad got me Steve Heighway's autograph but I'm fairly sure now that I was already a "fan" a year or two before that.

But, you picks your team, you nails your colours to the mast and thats where you stick.

Now, part of being a Liverpool fan is hating two other teams – Man Utd and Everton. While generally bemoaning the decline of Liverpool, the only solace each week is to hope that ManU and Everton lose. Everton have tended not to let me down in that respect as much as ManU.

Objectively, I can appreciate just how fantastic ManU have been over the last twenty years. One manager, brilliant breathtaking fast paced football at times, a never-say-die atttitude and countless other platitudes. There's no doubt they have always deserved the success they've achieved.

But, I still love seeing them being beaten. And last night I whooped when the final whistle went. Because that's what football is all about – it's not just supporting your team but hating your nearest rivals. Unfortunately for Liverpool fans, we probably put more energy into hating United than they have to do into hating Liverpool.

There's not a true ManU fan alive that didn't revel in the first half of the 05 champions league final and groan at the ending. And I wouldn't blame them for it. I sort of suspect that ManU fans might like a more competitive Liverpool side as they'd like nothing more than Liverpool running them close and finishing second in the title race…but I don't blame them for revelling in Liverpool's recent demise.

Bollocks to your supporting English teams just because your team is English. Club support has **** all to do with nationality anymore. It's purely tribal.

I reckon the whole country though (apart from some real diehard Chelsea fans) that wasn't behind Fulham the night they beat Juve.

I saw Chris Hughton in the Edmonton branch of IKEA once. I think he was buying some shelves and lamps. I could be wrong though, but he had a very purposeful look on his face.

& any easy 6 points a season!! 😉

I'm not biased against Man Utd either, I don't care who beats them!!!! 😆

Club support has **** all to do with nationality anymore. It's purely tribal.

Which is the same as saying that football has nothing to do with locality anymore. That's just not true for the huge numbers of fans who support the team just around the corner. Football teams are a huge part of identity for lots of people both locally and nationally.

we probably put more energy into hating United than they have to do into hating Liverpool.

I disagree I was genuinly suprised when I watched a Man U game recently and they were singing about merseyside and had banners with merseyside related messages. You dont see that at Anfield unless we are playing them. They do seem obsessed with the rivalry just as much.

and that is because of attitudes like your won.

Don't be so silly – my attitude is of realisation about what happened in the game over the last few years. Owners of these big clubs don't care about the club, just that they want the *business* to do well. I wish it wasn't the case but there are few owners, managers or players who care about a particular club. Of course there are exceptions – off the top of my head; Shearer, Beckham, Giggs, Tony Adams, Furguson, Carragher but most people involved in the game (at the toppermost flights) these days only care about themselves and their own futures. Maybe it isn't a bad thing to admit that – after all it is just a business just like any other.

I pointed out that a Large portion of their fans are against foriegn ownership

But do the owners care? No. Because they are the ones making money out of the merchandise (the club, its players, its gate receipts, its television revenues)

All I am trying to say is that supporters of clubs are, in general, much more passionate about their club than the vast majority of those actually involved with the club.

Which is the same as saying that football has nothing to do with locality anymore

No it's not. Where did you get that idea?

You have a point surfer…I suppose what I was trying to say was that we have more to be jealous of seeing as we're both owned by Americans who have no money to do anything at the moment.

No it's not. Where did you get that idea?

Because country is a part of that same sense of locality. Most of the fans of my club are English, it's not a global fan base like Liverpool, Man Utd or Chelsea. That's got to be true of the vast majority of English league clubs surely ?

Because the team who you support represents a part of who you are

Well of course it does. But don't equate that "local" thing with then supporting a side that happens to be from the same country just because they're playing a foreign team. You're telling me you'd be wholeheartedly behind Liverpool if they were playing Bayern last night (I'm thinking you're a United fan, apologies if mistaken)?

That may not be the case for you

I grew up in a country whose top flight football teams would struggle to beat a conference side but we got MotD every weekend and a Saturday and Sunday game too (either the Liverpool or United game). So we were as close to premiership (or Division 1 as it was back then) football as your average armchair supporter here.

Oh believe me, when it comes to rugby, I'm as passionate a fan as anybody else for my "local" side. But then again, there are more likely to be people from the area playing for the team, so "local" actually means "local".

had to turn the sound down last night due to the biased commenta ry
every man u player got a name check everytime the ball was touched but when bayern were on the ball stringing loads of passes together…….nothing
a man u v barca final how mouthwatering was the best comment

tossers

You're telling me you'd be wholeheartedly behind Liverpool if they were playing Bayern last night (I'm thinking you're a United fan, apologies if mistaken)?

I had to support ARSEnal the other night against Barca. Not because they play nice football. Becuase they are representing the Premier league in europe and as such i feel they should be supported.

and as such i feel they should be supported.

why? are you totally deluded? do you think your 'support' makes the slightest bit of difference? did messi score one goal less as he knew you sat in your living room thinking kindly about arsenal? what does this support possibly achieve?

My Old Man,
said 'be a Tottenham fan'
I said 'no I don't want to'.

This kind of dicussion reminds me of why i envy the Scots for their national pride. Do you think they sit at home wondering if their support makes any difference to their team when they are getting spanked every game? At least they support their own (Not commenting on Rangers/Celtic) without question. The English start debating about what effect their support has and how diluted their game is by foriegn influx.

I had to support ARSEnal the other night against Barca. Not because they play nice football. Becuase they are representing the Premier league in europe and as such i feel they should be supported.

I'm thinking delusional as well but that's not fair as I applaud your fairmindedness.

I guess we'll just have to put this one down to personal philosophy – I still think that how much you "support" the English team that you don't really support week in week out depends on who that team is. Personally, I gave Fulham as my answer..though that's more of a "plucky underdog" thing, a liking for Danny Murphy and a dislike for Juve because of corruption (I think they should have been given a very, possibly ten years or so, ban from all European competiton, but that's another thread)

Next thing you'll be trying to persuade the Bhoys to shout for the Hun and vice versa when one another is playing a "foreign" side.

It's all just a dirty old business anyway.

Talkemada – Member
My Old Man,
said 'be a Tottenham fan'
I said 'no I don't want to'.

Thats pretty much the conversation me and my son had a couple of years ago. He supports liverpool now 🙁

how diluted their game is by foriegn influx.

That competiton that's been played in South Africa in place of what would have been the World Cup (which the Republic of Ireland would have won had FIFA and a certain Terry 'Enry conspired to knock us out…now, there's "delusion" for ya 😀 )…yeah, that one, because of the above, England will progress no further than the quarter finals at best. I'll have anybody's tenner on this forum on that.

You're telling me you'd be wholeheartedly behind Liverpool if they were playing Bayern last night

No, I draw the line with Liverpool because I've always disliked them but apart from that, yes, I usually support English clubs in Europe.

No, I draw the line with Liverpool because I've always disliked

Well, I don't need to say anymore then do I. Liverpool are fairly "local" to you aren't they?