geda – yeah, and after a while you'll lose a load of fat and all interest in ice cream

t®ibal©hief – Member
OK, you're right Molgrips, what would I know, what with you working in IT and me having earned a living lecturing exercise physiology, presenting at fitness conventions and coaching people who won pretty major titles in quite a few sports…

On a lighter note, I think molgrips working in IT might know more about HIIT than TribalChief 😀

All that suger and the insulin spikes is making you hungry. Oats and other starches would reduce your hunger for the same amount of carbs

Well, again as I understand it, that stuff about insulin spikes is valid when you are at rest. When you're exercising it works differently… which is why athletes use maltodextrin powder which has a very high GI.. Am I right tc? Oats and medium GI stuff takes more energy to digest, and whilst exercising you need all your energy to your muscles…

No I love ice cream. I think it was something about growing up on a farm with a jersey cow. Cream and cornflakes for breakfast everyday. I thought cold milk was weird when I first went to school.

Thanks for the advice anyway. I have been doing intense sessions of wheelie, manual and bunnyhop practise in the park but could do with doing some running as well.

So where does cake fit into all of this?

Oats and medium GI stuff takes more energy to digest

no, it's just slower release due to the physical structure – you get the same amount of calories, moreover, not to labour the point, a large intake of low GI starch will result in the same (or bigger) boost in blood sugar as a small amount of high GI sugar 🙂 Remember, even pasta has a GI of 30, so it digests at 1/3rd of the rate of pure glucose, so 3 times as much – which would be far easier to eat – would result in the same intake rate of glucose.

Join Weight Watchers and stick to it. Job done.

Molgrips don't know if this will helps or hinders your point but it works for me.

When I was working to lose weight I restricted my 'calories in' all the time except the night before, during and immediately after my big w/e ride.

When I did that, coupled with a pretty strict diet through the week and shorter exercise session I made great progress (5 stone in around 18 months). I had the energy to exercise and work hard enough to make significant progress.

If I restricted the food in and around those big sessions I was a wreck (for days). Whether that was real or in my head is largely immaterial

Taz, that makes sense but I'm training 4 or 5 times a week usually… I kind of do what you said, but supplementing using carb and recovery drinks rather than big meals.

It's not as simple as burning more calories than you take in, as if you drop your calorie intake too low when doing a lot of exercise it has been shown to be counter-productive, and the weight loss can stop, due to slowing down the metabolism.

gazza100 – Member
Join Weight Watchers and stick to it. Job done.

That is precisely what I don't understand! By counting my calories the way I do, I was trying to effectively create my own weightwatchers. But it clearly doesn't work as simply as that. Hence my experience.

For the all the back-and-forth that has been going on on this thread, it is clear that some posters still haven't read what I first wrote. It CAN'T be as simple as calories in/calories out, as I have just spent five weeks taking in fewer calories than I have been burning, and after 5 kgs, nothing has happened.

Since I first posted, I have upped my intensity in different ways, though, so we will see what happens over the next few weeks.

Saxon Rider

When I lost a lot of weight I hit several 'plateau's'. My only advice is don't be a slave to the scales and remember as you get fitter you will generally burn fewer calories doing your daily stuff.

Keep watching what you eat, slowly up your volume & / or intensity of exercise and try to be consistent. Slow & steady progress is definitely the best way to go for the long term.

For me mixing my exercise regime up (MTB, bike commute, running, swimming, weights, touch rughy, squash) worked best. Mainly due to keeping me mentally fresh & keen to keep going.

It's not as simple as burning more calories than you take in, as if you drop your calorie intake too low when doing a lot of exercise it has been shown to be counter-productive, and the weight loss can stop, due to slowing down the metabolism.

It might alter the efficiency and physical symptoms that you see, but it won't stop the weight loss, otherwise no-one would ever starve to death 😉 You could try telling that theory to the concentration-camp veterans, they were really committed to the lie of severe weight loss while staved and made to exercise 😉

as I have just spent five weeks taking in fewer calories than I have been burning

The thing is, you don't know how many calories you've been burning up. How've you been estimating it? Your body varies its metabolism, and will slow down thereby reducing your daily requirement. There are ways of estimating your basal metabolic rate (BMR), you can google them.

The oft-quoted figure of 2500 calories for men is a wild stab in the dark.

round and round in circles.

if you have really truly been taking in fewer calories than you have been burning for the last five weeks………….

It's not as simple as burning more calories than you take in, as if you drop your calorie intake too low when doing a lot of exercise it has been shown to be counter-productive, and the weight loss can stop, due to slowing down the metabolism.
It might alter the efficiency and physical symptoms that you see, but it won't stop the weight loss, otherwise no-one would ever starve to death You could try telling that theory to the concentration-camp veterans, they were really committed to the lie of severe weight loss while staved and made to exercise

The show I saw it on was a weight loss show and the people had dropped their calorie intake to around 600 calories a day, thinking that the less they take in the less they then have to burn off, but their weight loss plateaued. The trainer told them that because they were working out around 6 hours a day, they needed to take in at least 2000 calories a day to keep their metabolism working properly.

I'm only passing on what I heard, and it depends on circumstances, but its things like this that show it isnt as simple as often made out.

I wouldn't be able to get out of bed with 600 calories a day! did someone say donuts?

I was in the same position and couldnt lose the weight. Hit 15 stone 10 and decided to join. They work out how many points you need by means of a simple calculation using age, height and weight. Foods (except certain veg) and drinks are awarded a points value for a given portion and you eat what you want until you reach your daily points allowance.

Lost a stone in 6 weeks and my eating habits have changed. If i want a sweet or a takeaway, then i have it and deduct it from my points allowance. If I exceed my daily allowance then I use less for the rest of the week so it balances out.

molgrips – Member

Taz, that makes sense but I'm training 4 or 5 times a week usually… I kind of do what you said, but supplementing using carb and recovery drinks rather than big meals.

Have you stopped to work out how much sugar you are having a week? If you are having a couple of litres of maltodexrtrin based energy drinks and a litre of maltodextrin based recovery drink you could be getting thru more than half a kilo of sugar a week – maybe even a kilo

Blimey look at all this lot…

Long story short, I exercise too much and don't eat enough (mostly, although I'm working on it) I run maybe 30-40km a week, sometimes more, it's hard to tell, as now I'm running 'hours' rather than distances, and will regularly do 90km off road or 125k on road as well. My calorie intake according to my log over the last 7 days is 1700 give or take. Trust me, the weight falls off..

nickc – same problem here, i'm doing upwards of 25hrs a week of training at the mo with some big weeks where its 30+. I have 3 meal drinks a day as well as meals, between meal meals and snacks a plenty. Nuts, tuna, cold baked tatties etc to munch on. Can barely keep my weight on. Yes its a lot of training (and its running, trekking, kayaking and biking road/mtb). The occasional creme egg falls in and i drink beer 2 nights a week 🙂

for me, i cut out sugar about 6mths into when i started biking and the weight dropped off…..so much to the point friends thought i had an eating disorder!

the biking element helped me to tone up at the end of the day – i only get a chance to do any once every other week.

so the key is healthy eating (treats of junk food now and again!), a bit of exercise and patience 😉

I agree with the last few posts and is basically the same as Im doing although I write down everything I eat. Being a driving instructor doesnt help either because the hours dont leave that much time for training or allow set meal times !!!

Oh yeah and I don't drink.

Oh yeah and I don't drink.

Thats cheating! 🙂

TJ, why should I believe you and not qualified and experienced sports fitness professionals?

The 'sugar' (actually maltodextrin, but ok) I consume is to replace the carbs I use whilst training. I usually take slighly less than the typical amount, so that'd be say three scoops in an hour. This is about 280 calories. If I am exercising hard then I might be using up 700 calories an hour, so you see there is a negative energy balance. Of course, if I didn't take the carbs I'd be needing to eat more to keep up the training (from practical experience).

Let me ask you something TJ – have you ever tried training for performance, rather than just riding for pleasure?

molgrips, for performance, yes these things can help, but I have a mouth full of fillings from years of using sports drinks in the early 90's when the link with dental health hadn't been made…. don't forget your toothbrush

also from a cost point of view, 50/50 water and orange juice with a pinch of salt and you have something as effective as a commercial sports drink.

Molgrips – just think how much sugar you are consuming. Maltodextrin is a mix of sugars.

How much in total a week? How big are these scoops?

Yes if you didn't take all that sugar you would need to eat more – but a balanced diet is much better for you.

You wonder why you don't lose weight.

TJ you are really getting on my tits now. You seem completely unable to process what I am saying.

When you eat pure carbs whilst riding, you are just replacing the energy you use at a point where it goes straight to your muscles as fast as possible. When you come home and stuff your face, you are also getting extra fat which you don't need, and it'll be harder to digest which means you won't get the carbs to your muscles for an hour or two.

Yes if you didn't take all that sugar you would need to eat more

So where does the weight loss come into it then?

And I do lose weight when training. I have managed f*ck all training this year due to lifestyle problems, which is why I am not losing weight currently.

Hey, TC's recommendation also has a lot of sugar in it – why don't you tell him he's wrong too?

Listen – I'm begging you. Please please please just LISTEN to what I am saying! Why do you just ignore everything I have to say? I mean come on. Are you the world's expert? Have you got huge experience in training nutrition? Where does your body of information come from? (please note I am not claiming to be an expert, but I have read aroudn the subject a fair bit and been coached). You're not even refuting my points, you are just telling me that sugar is bad. I'm not even drinking sugar!

TC – yep.. althogh I buy plan unflavoured maltodextrin powder at something like £15 for 5kg which works out at 22p/litre.. I find it hard to drink watered down OJ for some reason too.