Up until five weeks ago, I weighed 90 kgs, but have been restricting myself to less than 2000 calories per day for the last five weeks, and have felt better for it.

After the first couple of weeks, I had lost 5 kgs, but have been stuck since.

In the meantime, I have been out for a few rides, commuted a few times on my bike (a shade over 10kms per commute), and spend a fair bit of time walking around the workplace when I am there.

Only in the last couple of days have I added what I intend to make a regular effort to improve my cardio: I have gone on two 20 minute runs (just as a start).

So, any ideas as to why, considering how disciplined I have been with my eating, I haven't lost anything for about 3 weeks?

Your body gets used to your calorie intake and the amount of exercise taken. You always lose loads of weight at first, and then plateau. If you're eating sensibly, then just exercise more/harder, and be prepared for the weight to take more time to go, but it will happen. I lost three stone about 6 years ago, and that was what I found. Just keep at it, but have a treat once a week as well. The most important thing is just to be consistent with your diet and exercise.

At a guess three things.
You've reduced carbs from in your diet? – Carbs tend to need lots of water, so cutting them out reduces your weight quickly, but it's mostly water rather than fat you loose.
You've lost 5kg in fat and as a consequence you're calorific requirements have also reduced, so 2000 kcals has become the intake you need to maintain weight rather than reduce it.
Your calorie counting isn't accurate.
http://foodfocus.co.uk/ is quite a good free site, for accurately recording calorie intake from food, and outlay from exercise.

20min runs or 5km bikes ride really aren't much exercise at all, try upping the duration/effort.

2000 calories a day of what though ?

…and you say you've been out for a few rides and commuted a few times.
Try and commute on the bike regularly and turn up the intensity.

Kev

forget about low intensity exercise, start doing intervals (google 'cardio HIIT') and resistance training, cut carbs apart from one day a week when you can blitz them, don't eat white foods (rice, pasta, bread) don't drink calories, cut dairy, drink loads of water. that's what you need to do, pretty much ignore anything otherwise that may be posted after this, its based on myth and ill-informed bullshit.

if you want to be a great cyclist once you lose your weight you need to do long rides, but for fat loss, forget it.

if you want to be a great cyclist once you lose your weight you need to do long rides, but for fat loss, forget it.

Wrong. Long slow rides really work – but it's damn hard work and takes a lot of time. Not only do you burn a lot of fat but you train your fat-burning metabolic pathways so that it becomes easier to burn fat.

If you do high intensity workouts you'll build muscle (which then will burn fat as you just sit around doing nothing) and for a while after the exercise your metabolism will be raised which will also burn some fat, BUT during the exercise you will use up all your muscle glycogen stores.. unless you manage your carb intake well this will probably make you incredibly hungry and make it virtually impossible not to eat shedloads to re-fill your glycogen stores. I guess this may depend on your metabolism but that's what happens with me.

Like I say, when I do high intensity workouts I get fast, and build muscle but I certainly don't lose weight.

molgrips, you're both misinformed and wrong on many levels

Gonna tell me why?

it would take more time than i can bear, but there are numerous research papers which demonstrate that intervals produce more fat loss than steady state, even when the total work done is great with steady state. ever seen a fat sprinter? they're usually leaner than marathon runners. fat burning zones is the greatest myth in the fitness industry. as a topical example, Eddie Izzard didn't look very ripped after his 43 marathons did he?

He's right y know, long an steady dull as but makes body more efficient at burning fat, high intensity builds muscle but depletes glycogen an ends up wi you starvin hungry an likely t gorge…..

I did some leaflet delivering for a friend, so I was literally walking for hours and hours a day. The fat just fell off me, I didn't get any injuries and I didn't get that bloody-hell-I'm-starving-to-death urge to totally empty the fridge and cupboards (I get it if I go swimming or a really long bike ride).

I've seen quite a few fat blokes on bikes out-sprint me at races, but never a skinny one. I've also noticed that sprinters are usually very big and muscle-bound.

I'd like to see the studies, I wonder how the calorie intake was controlled? It would be interesting to see a study on people who were given training plans to take home and consequently controlled their own diet.

There's also the fatigue part of it to consider. I found I could put in 15 hours of base training relatively easily (physically) but I can only do say 2-3 hours of speed training. According to cycling peaks, my cumulative training stress score (whatever it's called) was much greater in winter, which is why I've only ever lost weight in winter time doing base training.

OK, you're right Molgrips, what would I know, what with you working in IT and me having earned a living lecturing exercise physiology, presenting at fitness conventions and coaching people who won pretty major titles in quite a few sports…

It's not new it's just been buried by misinformation and marketing bollox in the fitness industry. there have been dozen of others since

Impact of Exercise Intensity on Body Fatness and Skeletal Muscle Metabolism, ' Metabolism, vol. 43(7), pp 814-818, 1994

>I've seen quite a few fat blokes on bikes out-sprint me at races,

They position the burger van at the end of the finishing straight.

if you are strating with 20 mins runs great but add some sprints in their to begin with, tribalc is right in what he says, but you have to build up to intensity I would suggest, intense work outs are better see crossfit and gym jones. Mix up your training go to the gym, swim, run, bike, walk, box, martial arts whatever you will get a better all round base fitness and then target what you want.
Above all enjoy it and there is nowt wrong in going for a slow run now and then. 😀

re: trib@lchief vs molgrips

Yikes! A fight. Soon, we'll have Mr Woppit dropping by to say he doesn't believe in weight loss, and then things will really heat up.

Can I just say – eat less move more. its the only answer

2000 calories a day of what though ?
Your question doesn't make sense. I'm going to guess your implying good calories over bad calories. Please don't.

Molgrips – I don't wish to cause you any offence but please stop typing what you're typing. It's utter rubbish.

Also whilst "Having muscle burns more fat" is technically true, the actual amount turns out to be pretty negligible (3-5 kcal per day per lb of lean mass).

If you have lost weight, and have stopped then you need to fix your energy balance – either more exercise (without increasing calories) or reduce intake – or ideally a bit of both.

The best method to do this is the one that *you can stick to* – in most studies it's clear that the biggest success factor is compliance, rather than the difference between high protein or high carb diets, HIIT or steady state cardio / weight training etc.

I have no qualifications in the field but I've done a fair bit of reading, and managed to drop about 20kg a couple of years ago and keep it off.

Come on TC I wasn't being an arse, I'm just interested, being a fat git on a bike myself…

Although whenever I hear about marketing hype causing the truth to be lost it makes me a little suspicious…. but I'll try and check out that paper and any others you can tell me about. It is unfortunate that people are falling over themselves to scream their ideas at you tho 🙁

Seriously, thanks for the responses. It is a bit frustrating, though, seeing as we have had threads about losing weight in the past when people have glibly chimed in with 'eat less; do more' (edit: à la TJ, above) yet it doesn't seem to be that simple.

I have spent five weeks eating substantially less, and doing (granted, only a little bit) more, and after the first bit, have lost nothing.

Above all, it is apparent that I have to be more intense about it. IanMunro's suggestion of using foodfocus.co.uk looks like it will help in terms of keeping better records, and I will certainly up my activity.

But goodness, it's hard if you have to fit it in, and taking care of your fitness has not been an integrated part of your life for a long time…

It is hard, SaxonRider. And TJ is being facile, it is clearly more complicated than he makes out he's clearly one of those congentially thin blokes who never had a trouble with weight.

Tribalchief.. I could only read the abstract of that paper. But it doesn't seem from that to be conclusive. They cite 120MJ of energy expenditure for the endurance training to 50MJ for the high intensity training. I do wonder though how the TSS values would compare.

I'm not sure how 120MJ of endurance training actually compares with 50MJ of speed – I mean which was harder for the participants to do? For example, a 10 mile time trial taking 25 minutes feels harder to do than a two hour ride at base training level. I could do two hours a day at base week in week out, but I doubt I could do a 10 every day.

Now I want to make it absolutely clear that I just want a discussion and to pick as many brains as possible to learn what I can, I'm not trying to win points.. I know I only work in IT 🙂

Carbs tend to need lots of water

what does that mean? Can you reference any evidence for the claim ? Bear in mind your body does not store carbs beyond a small amount of glycogen (100–120 g)

You've lost 5kg in fat and as a consequence you're calorific requirements have also reduced,

by a few calories a day…

Can you reference any evidence for the claim

I haven't a clue. I'm just back from the pub after an enjoyable day running and gardening. But you're more than welcome to spend the evening finding references to support whatever arguments you want to have with yourself 😉

I was told 4g of water for every 1g of carbs stored. Hence seeming to lose weight after hard exercise despite remaining hydrated…

But you're more than welcome to spend the evening finding references to support whatever arguments you want to have with yourself

so you mean you can just make stuff up and post it an expect to be believed ?

I was told 4g of water for every 1g of carbs stored.

so 120g of glycogen require 0.5kg of water ?

to be honest i can't be arsed going into it in detail. my original post, outlines the best way to lose fat and also develop great cardio fitness. if you google HIIT and fat loss someone else has probably answered your questions already. these threads annoy the hell out of me as misinformation is regurgitated en mass. imagine trying to advise someone on an IT matter and having coaches say contrary 'facts' based on using a computer for their work? its a huge pet hate of mine, and i'm also grumpy today.

I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong. I was just after a discussion.. trying to understand what you're saying. Not saying I don't believe you.

FWIW I get my information from reading up about and trying to undersand the science involved not from the millions of hysterical websites out there which also piss me off.

Quick(ish) question for Tribalchief –

What duration intervals work best for weight loss

10sec sprints, 30 sec sprints or 60sec sprints? (and how long to rest in between?)
How many each session?
and how often? (is every day too often?)

Cheers!

hard to go wrong with 3 or 4 sets of 5 x 30 sec max/30 sec recovery, 3 mins easy between sets. great for fat loss and cardio fitness. three or four times a week

Molgrips – it is actually that simple – its calories in against calories out. You can complicate it and you can modify exercise to give differing effects but its a simple equation – if you take in more calories than you use then you gain weight – if you take in less calories than you use you lose weigh

I am a good stone overweight at the moment

tribal – what about ditching the cardio for serious weight loss ….. I've heard that multi-joint weight lifting exercises are the way forward?

Builds muscle and increases meatabolism for longer after actual exercise than cardio? Right?

Cheers!! 😀

I have the opposite problem. Can't get enough calories in to support the exercise I do. It's driving me nuts TBH. Without resorting to stuffing my face with a constant supply of shit food how do others manage it?

as TJ said, stop excercising so much 😉

Molgrips – it is actually that simple – its calories in against calories out.

Christ TJ. You can be a right arse sometimes. We have this thing called appetite.. which is pretty complex, and there are a load of other positive and negative feedback mechanisms that affect how easy it will be to moderate you calorie intake, how you'll feel physically and mentally and how you'll be able to do your exercise.

Sure you can just cut your calories right back whilst training but you might feel like absolute crap on a stick (like I do if I don't eat enough and keep trying to ride) to the point where you can hardly function at your job never mind on a bike… And for a lot of people that'll result in failure to stick to the plan and disillusionment and whatnot.

That's the last time I'm typing that to you, so remember it this time.

Nickc – try taking carbs whilst riding; either gels, bars, or drink. If drink upsets your stomach then mix it less than full strength. I find that if I ride hard and don't take carbs I become an eating machine and can't think about anything else – seriously.. and am never satisfied.

Also try recovery drink after riding. Torq is best by a mile.

hard to go wrong with 3 or 4 sets of 5 x 30 sec max/30 sec recovery, 3 mins easy between sets. great for fat loss and cardio fitness

Plus at least one long ride a week, surely?

I don't have any answers for you, but I just wanted to say that I never had trouble with my weight until I started eating more and exercising less.

Have cut out salty snacks (crisps and nuts, which I ate a lot of) completely for the last month and it's having a slow but steady effect, about a pound a week, FWIW.

OK, here is my anecdotal take on things to further cloud the issue

When I try and loose weight I tend to only loose a little and then get it all back with interest within a few months because I lose motivation after a very short while. Loosing weight for the sake of loosing weight just feels a bit pointless.

Recently I set my self the goal of running a half marathon in 2 hours, this was from a starting point of zero fitness. I had lots of little goals along the way, like beating my precious best time on my jogging route. At no point was my goal to loose weight. I gave up smoking along the way which would usually lead to weight gain, and I lost just over a stone in 4 or 5 months. I wasn't really over weight to start with, but I am a much better shape now.

Im not sure how this fits in with the interval training vs distance training debate as I was doing a bit of both, but what I think it does show is that you need to approach things with the intention of making a real lifestyle change rather than thinking you will just eat a bit less or cram 20 minutes of exercise in twice a week if you want to loose it and keep it off

Molgrips – you are the one spouting a load of rubbish! it doesn't matter how you do it but the basic equation is simple. Appetite and so on can me modified but the basic truth remains – its calories in against calories out