website costs

MF – they were not. I was there, you were not.

simple as. They were really difficult to find and buy. I know I did it

Boots yes, oxblood yes, colours stitching yes, plain black – no

You cannot correct me on something I did at a time you were a child.
Sorry but they WERE a fashion item and as I was plenty old enough to remember them and I know for a fact that I had a pair of black ones because all my mates did.

You were there. Agreed.

I was also there. Agreed?

I repeat…

don simon – Member

Could one of you business gurus tell me what ‘brand’ refers to?
.

Has anyone said ‘solely’ because of the brand? It is just one of the many reasons why people make the choices they do.

And the answer to my question is because brand is simply a synonym for name and every product has a name and as I said previously the buying process is not simple.

What I think you guys are trying to defend so vociferously is brand image. So based on this, possible misconception,
TJ did buy a brand and that brand was Dr Martens what he didn’t buy was the skinhead image or the working boot image that the brand marketing image people (or whatever they’re called) wanted.
I can think of some other successful images like denim jeans as working clothes and not the fashion item they are today. You’ll forget the first mistake and bask in the glory of the rebranding.
Or EasyJet?
As I see the imaging question, it is just a crock, isn’t it? The Marlboro Cowboy would back me up if her hadn’t died of lung cancer. Not quite the same image as the freedom of the US of A.
Or the obesity generated by eating too much junk food as they are trying to emulate the youn, thin, beautiful people portrayed as part of the image of the company.
Or maybe your thinking of the green and yellow flower being used in the logo of that famously environmentally friendly company, British Petroleum.
All just lies. 😉

I buy the cheapest from my local shop. That is not a marketing led decision in any way or form. The branding has no bearing on my decision

if it wasn’t for branding do you think you would have such a variety of products to choose from? As said earlier price is part of a brand.

You have to find some to justify your meainingless jobs and lives

That’s quite rude TJ, even for you.

MF – I buy the cheapest per unit weight from my nearest shop. Thats a simple decision based on cost and convenience and nowt to do with marketing

You may know the story of the emporers new clothes but you ignore the lesson in it.

Damo the branding has no bearing on my decision. None, zero. Zilch

I buy the cheapest from my local shop. That is not a marketing led decision in any way or form. You have to find some to justify your meainingless jobs and lives

Let me give you an example of how marketing and branding works.

You admit you just buy the cheapest and are not influenced by brands. Therefore you are a segment that can be targeted.

In Tescos (or any other FMCG retailer) marketing department some years ago:

Marketing person 1: “I reckon there’s a segment out there that just wants the cheapest, isn’t interested in quality and thinks they’re unaffected by brands”

Marketing person 2: “you’re right, lets buy in some cheap products and price them below the brand leaders”

Marketing person 3: “great idea, because the segment thinks they are uninfluenced by brands lets just brand them very simply, how about we call them Tesco Value”

Damo the branding has no bearing on my decision. None, zero. Zilch

I buy the cheapest from my local shop. That is not a marketing led decision in any way or form. You have to find some to justify your meainingless jobs and lives

Let me give you an example of how marketing and branding works.

You admit you just buy the cheapest and are not influenced by brands. Therefore you are a segment that can be targeted.

In Tescos (or any other FMCG retailer) marketing department some years ago:

Marketing person 1: “I reckon there’s a segment out there that just wants the cheapest, isn’t interested in quality and thinks they’re unaffected by brands”

Marketing person 2: “you’re right, lets buy in some cheap products and price them below the brand leaders”

Marketing person 3: “great idea, because the segment thinks they are uninfluenced by brands lets just brand them very simply, how about we call them Tesco Value”

😆 I had to spend a whole day being taught “How to make yourself a brand.”
I think the course leader (I can’t use the word teacher) was used to naive, optimimistic uni graduates not hard bitten cynical middle age techies.

The biscuits were good. The closest I’ve come to branding myself was on the oven.

😳 double post.

Damo the branding has no bearing on my decision. None, zero. Zilch

I buy the cheapest from my local shop. That is not a marketing led decision in any way or form. You have to find some to justify your meainingless jobs and lives

Let me give you an example of how marketing and branding works.

You admit you just buy the cheapest and are not influenced by brands. Therefore you are a segment that can be targeted.

In Tescos (or any other FMCG retailer) marketing department some years ago:

Marketing person 1: “I reckon there’s a segment out there that just wants the cheapest, isn’t interested in quality and thinks they’re unaffected by brands”

Marketing person 2: “you’re right, lets buy in some cheap products and price them below the brand leaders”

Marketing person 3: “great idea, because the segment thinks they are uninfluenced by brands lets just brand them very simply, how about we call them Tesco Value”

I buy the cheapest from my local shop. That is not a marketing led decision in any way or form.

Price is part of a brand.

You have to find some to justify your meainingless jobs and lives

Even for you TJ thats quite rude.

So can anyone actulolly put any meaning to this guff?
“Brand communication”
“talk to their customers through their website”,
“Brand message”

No one yet has given me any explanation of the meaning of these phrases

Can I do it tomorrow I’m off home now? 🙂

Posty seem to have got lost 🙁

MF – I suggest you read the emperors new clothes and learn the lesson from it

as for my beans purchase. Cheapest per unit weight from my nearest seller of them.

No marketing / branding / advertising in that decision at all. None. Nada. No matter what the brand is I would do the same. My local supermarket changed recently from one brand to another – guess what? i do the same thing when buying beans I buy the cheapest.

TJ,

How did you arrive at STW?

Did a friend “recommend” the website?

Did you pick up the STW mag in a shop? Why did you pick it up? Nice pretty picture on the front? (Thank the marketing dept. for that)

Did you find the website from an online search engine? Perhaps Google?

(Branding, marketing, and all that ‘rubbish’ associated with it… does actually work on you….)

TJ,

How did you arrive at STW?

Did a friend “recommend” the website?

Did you pick up the STW mag in a shop? Why did you pick it up? Nice pretty picture on the front? (Thank the marketing dept. for that)

Did you find the website from an online search engine? Perhaps Google?

(Branding, marketing, and all that ‘rubbish’ associated with it… does actually work on you….)

what is happening to posts, page 5 is broken. Odd glitch this. Did they pay £600 for this forum? 😉

Taken from another thread

TandemJeremy – Member

I know its been done but I had a search and couldn’t find anything.

Before I buy a set of ortleibs is there anything else I should look at? T’missus don’t like the ortleibs because they have no pockets – I think they are a bit heavy. However they have a great reputation. I can just about cope with the cost.

Must be big and strong with good fixings, Front and rear wanted

caradice? They do some similar to the ortleib

Anyone else?

Ta

You appear to be looking at two established Brands there?

Why not fashion your own out of hemp?

Just get the cheapest from a local shop?

Use a couple of old plastic bags?

as for my beans purchase. Cheapest per unit weight from my nearest seller of them.

You really must be fun to have around at dinner parties.

Let me give you an example of how marketing and branding works.

Are we talking about a brand (simply a name), brand image as phil.w described or marketing?

I do so love the way you keep ascribeing motivations to me that I do not have

And MF you were not there or you would know what you are saying is guff. You were a child.

Phil – yes its rude. Sorry. Its also the truth

you guys spend your working lives selling the emperor his new clothes and have to attempt to justify it. Well some of us see tright thru you and yo don’t half get angry and defensive when this happens – resoretring to utter goibbledegook

Marketing person 3: “great idea, because the segment thinks they are uninfluenced by brands lets just brand them very simply, how about we call them Tesco Value”

Classic example of the emperors new clothes

I do not buy tesco value because they are tesco value. I buy the cheapest because they are the cheapest. I care not one jot what is on the label

what is happening to posts, page 5 is broken. Odd glitch this. Did they pay £600 for this forum?

No, I think they asked for a forum that works and the designers gave them one that doesn’t. 😉

hhmmm … interesting … 🙂

Website can be designed/made in other part of world but maintain locally. Simple.

If everything is designed & maintained locally then you can kick their arses if something goes wrong.

🙂

Tiger – yes they are brands, however my decision was not based on branding or marketing but on an objective appraisal of the function and cost

your meainingless jobs and lives

all of the respect i had for you for sticking to your guns in various other threads is now gone… i’m sure this doesn’t matter to you one bit as you’re so important and obviously never influenced by anything in the world other than your own amazing decisions based on nothing but the expert knowledge you hold on every subject… but its the internet and i feel that its something i want to express.

I care not one jot what is on the label

You see we all know this is untrue. TJ is pointedly ignoring his pwning by Tiger6971 up there.

But you might as well go on about it till you’re blue in the face. He can’t admit that there are major chinks in his armour…a case of the emperor losing some of his own clothes…as it were.

what is happening to posts, page 5 is broken. Odd glitch this. Did they pay £600 for this forum?

😆 ah that made me chuckle.

TJ, so when your supermarket changed, was the cheapest brand beans the same price as previously?

I guess at least you noticed it had changed, probably becasue of the new style branding to those value beans… mmm yummy beans.

I still do not beleive you are unaffected by brands, and I am sure some trawling of the many many many posts you have made on the forum would back this up. Alas I do not care enough to prove that but I am sure you will contradict yourself on another thread soon enough. 🙂

The ‘web designers’ I know and have worked with haven’t a bloody clue about aesthetics and regional markets. They just make websites work

Those aren’t Web Designers, they’re Web Developers. Big difference.

TJ, have you considered Heinz beans? They’re much nicer than the Tesco Value ones. Perhaps if you weren’t so brand loyal, you’d have discovered a better product.

And MF you were not there or you would know what you are saying is guff. You were a child.

So I didn’t have a pair of black DMs when I was 13?

you guys spend your working lives selling the emperor his new clothes

I don’t. I am simply a designer. I do not get involved at all in the psychology of consumer trends and purchasing patterns etc etc. I simply know they exist and know that almost every single one of us is somehow influenced *whether we realise it or not* by what we are sold by the marketing and branding people.

Okay, I am going home right now but I do hope we can carry this one on for a while as I am really enjoying what is being said so far.

Catch you all later.

This is beautiful so many folks are so taken in with the business bullcrap that the terminology is getting confused and the argument changing to satisfy a need.
😆

Oh what a silly lot you are.

I have been asking this for hours.

So can anyone actulolly put any meaning to this guff?
“Brand communication”
“talk to their customers through their website”,
“Brand message”

No one yet has given me any explanation of the meaning of these phrases

It really does entertain me that you all so believe that I am affected by marketing.

TJ, so when your supermarket changed, was the cheapest brand beans the same price as previously?

I have no idea. I simply bought the cheapest in my nearest shop.

MF – you may have had the shoes but I know they were not a fashion item where I was as they were almost impossible to find and no one was wearing them.

deadlydarcy – Member

I care not one jot what is on the label

You see we all know this is untrue. TJ is pointedly ignoring his pwning by Tiger6971 up there.

No Pwning at all. Yes they are brands but that did not influence my decision at all. What influenced my decision was the experiences of others and the cost / utility trade off. Ie performance not image.

Anyone who knows me knows how little i care about branding or image.

Pleased to report that my haircut hasn’t gone too badly, considering. I usually end up looking like someone with mental health problems. Now I just look like someone who’s getting treatment.

So can anyone actulolly put any meaning to this guff?
“Brand communication”
“talk to their customers through their website”,
“Brand message”

No one yet has given me any explanation of the meaning of these phrases

Go on then, I’ll have a go.
Brand communication – its about getting across the message that the stuff the company sells is what the customer wants or needs. Around that is a load of psychology around perceived value, keeping up with the Joneses, being the coolest kids on the block. Its why they employ folk like Beckham to wear the brands he does.

talk to their customers through their website – an example of this is Howies. They put all the lifestyle stuff on their on the basis that if you buy some of their clothes, you’ll be as cool as them. It could also mean a way of getting feedback on what they do. Polls, questionnaires, opportunities to comment on blogs etc.

brand message – see Brand Communication

What you have to remember TJ, is that not everyone is as clever as you are. There are many folk who fall for all this. That doesn’t make them wrong, it just makes them different.

HTH

So you never see an advert in a magazine or on TV and think “Hmm that sounds interesting, might give that a try” or do you read the which reviews for the best tasting / value baked beans?
Im not so sure im that perfect TJ, but I see nothing wrong with being exposed to products, you dont HAVE to buy them!

EDIT: What’s the point

So can anyone actulolly put any meaning to this guff?
“Brand communication”
“talk to their customers through their website”,
“Brand message”

Okay, I’ll bite on this one.

Brand communication – trying to reach out to your target audience and try to get them to perceive that they are similar to yourself. Rolls Royce are a luxury brand, bet there isn’t a flakey out-of-focus image on their site. Maybe something like fashion clothing have a little more ‘edge’ to their site.

Talk to their customers through their website – this is the wording/tone used. How it is used often conveys certain conscious and subconscious attributes. For example, an NHS website may try to be reassuring and concise about illness, treatments etc. – you wouldn’t really want to look up heart attack on the NHS website and get a response “init, ths is like what my granny, like had, you know. Git big pain down your arm. You is dead, man”. Rolls Royce will try to be professional etc., maybe MBR website might be a bit more “down with the kids” type speak.

If it’s you only form of communicating with your (potential) customer then people do actually take how they portray themselves very seriously.

Again, brand message is related to the above – NHS is a professional organisation that you can trust with your health. Even your uniform is part of that ‘brand’. You don’t wear jeans, Ramones t-shirt etc. for work (even if clean) do you? Do I trust this airline to fly me safely from A to B?

Basically all three are trying to portray what is good about your company to someone.

You’re getting too tied up in your own importance non-brand feelings. Do you never walk into a restaurant, think this is terrible, the wallpapers hanging off the walls, just seen the chef outside having a fag coughing his guts up etc? The food might be the best in the world but you probably don’t hang around to find out. Thats a physical representation of the company, if you don’t have any bricks and motar as such then it has to be portrayed on your website.

If you had a business you would need to promote it right tj? So that people might decide to use your product or service over theirs. Simply selling the cheapest beans would not mean people would buy them. They would need to be aware of your brand of beans. Whether you those to create this brand awareness by telling everyone they were magic beans or the cheapest beans around you would still have create brand awareness to make your business a success.

Ah, geoff got there before me.

bigyinn – Member

So you never see an advert in a magazine or on TV and think “Hmm that sounds interesting, might give that a try” or do you read the which reviews for the best tasting / value baked beans?

Occasional new concept yes. Something I have never heard of before. I can’t think of an example right now tho. Otherwise no. Never ever for a difference between two similar products.

I simply don’t play the consumerist game at all.

geoffj

Nice go at teh explanations. Still rather meaning free tho.

What you have to remember TJ, is that not everyone is as clever as you are. There are many folk who fall for all this. That doesn’t make them wrong, it just makes them different.

Now I think I detect a touch or sarcasm in there however you hit on a real point

MF and his cohorts believe this guff works for everyone when infact it only works on the gullible and easily led. They have no understanding that some folk see marketing for what it is – designed to create a need. Hence MF has a prious and I don’t own a car. If ever there was a triumph of branding and marketing the Pruis is it – along with oakleys and Howies

If you had a business you would need to promote it right tj? So that people might decide to use your product or service over theirs. Simply selling the cheapest beans would not mean people would buy them. They would need to be aware of your brand of beans. Whether you those to create this brand awareness by telling everyone they were magic beans or the cheapest beans around you would still have create brand awareness to make your business a success.

I would assume that the business owner would have done some market research to determine that he has a product that people want and who the pèople are, before even beginning the business. Then, if there is a viable market, market it. So brand awareness is another word for marketing then? Which is not the same as brand or brand image… 🙄