I’ve been in that kind of situation a few times myself.

But what can we do about it? Seriously, how do we change things?

ti_pin_man do not lose hope!

what else can you do?

> get involved with your local cycling groups
> community groups, youth groups, scouts etc
> talk to headteachers of local schools about what they are doing
> talk to local business groups
> your local council will have transport officers
> write to the national groups, sustrans, CTC, BC etc
> talk to your local paper about it

it starts local and it starts with noise, raising awareness, getting it into the forefront of peoples minds. If you ask all the above what they are doing then you will get one of 3 outcomes

1> they’re doing nothing
– ask why! ask that they do, suggest things
2> they’re doing something
– support them and get involved
3> they’re doing loads!
– again support them, spread the word, you might even get more ideas!

Boris is having one of his Twitter #AskBoris sessions at 12.30pm today.
I suspect that might be getting a lot of cyclists asking questions…

Use @MayorOfLondon and #AskBoris

All good suggestions amedias.

For my part I am:

– supporting The Times / Get Britain Cycling effort by signing the e-petition, writing to my MP and encouraging others to do so.

– making a monthly donation to Sustrans

– offering my time as a Volunteer Ranger for Sustrans

– a member of the CTC

– a member of my local campaign: Newcastle Cycle Campaign

– and of course discussing the issues with fellow cyclists on here 😀

good on you Graham 🙂

CTC + BC + Sustrans member here too, also work with a local bike charity and a load of the local Bikeability guys, both with links to the Council’s and University’s Sustainable Transport people,

I think what needs to happen is that we need to get to the stage where this is an issue for the general public, not just the normal cycling die-hards bleating on (like us!), I think getting local community groups and business on side is key to it…

Imagine the impact of all the local schools, scout groups, inner city businesses (with cycle-commuting employees), parents groups etc ALL pushing for improvements to safety for their children, families, employees etc.

I fear at the moment it’s too much of an ‘us and them’ style thing with people still seeing ‘cyclists’ and not ‘people I know who ride bikes’

GrahamS: Just joined the Newcastle Cycle Campaign, thanks for the reminder.

By the by, if you see a scruffy bespectacled fellow on a green Genesis CX bike on the run into/out of town that’ll be me, we moved out to wylam last month.

Agreed – locally we have tried to shift a bit of focus towards “Liveable Streets”

i.e. making streets that are nicer places to live, work and shop for everyone.

lemonysam: I did see someone the other day and wondered if it might be you. “Are you that bloke off the internet?” is always a difficult question to ask though 😀

I’m the bloke on the black Rose CX bike, black helmet, red face. Mugshot in my profile

If you come to the campaign members meeting (next one is 10th Sept) then do say “Hi”. Or I’ve just started joining the monthly social ride from The Cycle Hub (2nd Sat of the month).

Also if you Facebook then you might want to join these groups:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/newcastle.cycling.campaign/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/146219282223823/

If there is a cycle Lane or cycle box I stay out in any vehicle I’m driving. If I have overtaken a cyclist and there is no cycle Lane I close the gap between my vehicle and the kerb. Not out of ignorance but for their safety. If there is no gap they can’t sneak into my blind spot.

If I overtake a cyclist I give them at least 4′ of clearance so even when overtaking they are still visible to me for most of the manoeuvre thus protecting us both. Rather than the 4mm given to me by a learner last night on the dual carriageway. (yes I know learners have to start somewhere but it was with a credited driving school and the instructors responsibility)

As for lorry bans in the city if they can only go in and out at certain times means that there must still be people in them areas to accept them deliveries so it’s Ok for the people who have to work late to get squished?

Also the tipper lorry scenario. .. Obviously delivering to a building site. If you lived next door to that sore would you be happy about building works all through the night?
As for presuming cyclists undertaking I see it day in day out so my initial point still stands.

As for lorry bans in the city if they can only go in and out at certain times means that there must still be people in them areas to accept them deliveries so it’s Ok for the people who have to work late to get squished?

Well, if they used out-of-town distribution hubs and changed vehicles from HGVs to Transits then the vast majority of deliveries would occur by smaller vehicle. Those requiring larger vehicles would be operating on quieter roads, with fewer cyclists therefore less risk all around. I can’t really see that being an argument that it’s therefore okay to KSI shift workers.

Also the tipper lorry scenario. .. Obviously delivering to a building site. If you lived next door to that sore would you be happy about building works all through the night?

Those could easily be covered by traffic management plans, method of construction statements and on-site HSE requirements, hence operating in normal office hours.

I don’t think a full lorry ban would work and there’s always going to be exemptions and exceptions required. It does depend on the level of enforcement of any such ban and how serious the enforcers are about it. I think these kind of issues would be ironed out before the ban came into effect though. Much like the various exemptions for congestion zones/RUC zones.

As for lorry bans in the city if they can only go in and out at certain times means that there must still be people in them areas to accept them deliveries so it’s Ok for the people who have to work late to get squished?

That’s a complete logical flaw.

You are saying that, since it is inevitable people will get squished, you might as well do it while there are thousands of people around rather than just a few!

Less people around = less people squished. Simple.

If you lived next door to that sore would you be happy about building works all through the night?

Happier than having the lives of my family put at risk for commercial gain? Yes.

getting back to the “What Can We Do” question: I do think education plays a big part in diluting some of the current issues.

I’d love to see some prominent government advertising explaining:

– the dangers to cyclists of going up the inside of HGVs, buses etc

– that cyclists do pay for the roads

– that cyclists are entitled to use the full lane and explaining the reasons they may do so for their own safety

– the correct amount of room to give a cyclist when overtaking them and pointing out that overtaking at pinch points is a really dumb idea!

BUT.. that would help the current people who cycle anyway.

What we really need to do, to increase cycling levels in the UK, is make the conditions less intimidating for those who would like to cycle but don’t.

Sorry not read this whole thread, but sad to see another tragic cyclist death in the news, 14 year old boy this time

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-23353273

London – four deaths to lorries in eleven days. Two cyclists and two pedestrians.
http://www.seemesaveme.com/news/vigil19july.html

Looked like a good turnout at the #Space4Cycling protest at Holborn:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMGysZDHh2Q[/video]

This blog makes some good points too: the week before the fatal accident the police were actively fining cyclists who tried to use the bus lane to avoid the busy Holborn junction.

The cyclist killed at Holborn was in the right hand lane, for all you “it’s the cyclists’ faults for riding up the inside” merchants

Surprised at that Graham, I thought all bus lanes were fair game for cyclists.

Yeah was news to me too. I assume it must be a local traffic order.

Some companies like ARRIVA buses and Travis Perkins, and various cement supply companies have signs on the back legft hand side warning cyclists not to go down the side of them, and one LGV, the other day had a buzzer when it was turning left,that was on the outside of the vehicle a really great idea

Recently Trixie moirrors where installed on a set of trafic lights in chester, some stupid thick muppet decided to smash one, he was probably so offended by how ugly ansd stupidly unfit he looked.Problem is someone got killed there thats what they where put there for.

A bus lane is a bus only lane if it only has a bus pictogram on the warning signs, if it has a cyclist as well youre allowed to use it.

Really sad news throughout this thread.

I’ve just started cycling on the road myself and in the 3 weeks since I started, just today had my first experience of being cut up by a long vehicle overtaking me on a straight bit of road and pulling back in prematurely (ooh fnar)

Seems like HGV appreciation of cyclists is a real problem – how can cyclists as a group get some action taken on this? We can wear a camera but i’m talking prevention, rather than a post incident record:

There are steps a cyclist can take to avoid danger (dont pass a lorry on the left for example) but equally it seems we are sitting ducks exposed to bad long\HG vehicle driving.

genuinely I want to do something about this but not sure where to start – I don’t want to stop cycling on the road but what I experienced today was enough to make me think about taking that choice.

Stay out from the kerb about 2 foot plus,carry a notebook and pen and possiblty a camera to take vehicle details.

Report any miscreant lgv drivers to VOSA, and stay safe.

Strangely i have had few near misses with LGV,s it seems to be more aggressive woman driving their husbands car badly.

mega, see posts previously by myself and GrahamS, (and others), there is plenty you can do, get involved with your local groups, council, etc and support the national cycling bodies too

don’t let a few bad eggs run you off the road (literally), and without wanting to sound patronising, but if you are new to riding on the roads then genuinely look to see if there are any groups or training being run in your area, even the most experienced of us can learn something!

Mega.also get a copy of Cyclecraft from book depository or amazon. lots of good info about safer city cycling.

Just be careful out there everyone

Holborn Cyclist tributes by -Cheesyfeet-, on Flickr