Don’t some manufacturers actually weld/glue a shim into the frame to bring oversizes tubes down to a standard seatpost size?

I feel for the OP.

I honestly think that shim is a legit part in the bike world. Loads of people saying ‘oh you naturally void the warranty by using a shim’ seems a bit weird to me but oh well…

The only thing I wanted to point out is the exact spot of the crack. I’ve had a Dixon before (and BTW was running it with a 30.9 – 31.6 shim with no issues). The crack is like 2-3 cms below the seat clamp. The shim and post were inserted much deeper – 10 cms.

In the case of ‘not enough insertion’ I’d really expect to see a crack much closer to the lower part of the shim/post. In this case it seems like the flex of the shim-post assembly should’ve been HUGE to actually lead to this crack spot. Trying to think ‘mechanically’ I’d say that normal 31.6 post would’ve put very similar/same stress on this very part of the seat tube. I don’t really see how the proper shim and 27.2 post would make things worse. But again, I’m not a professional engineer so I may be wrong.

What this does look like is a generally too weak weld/seatpost junction. Which, in theory, might’ve made the warranty claim a bit more justified?

Using a shim is not a bodge and the OP has been screwed over here. The ‘entirely assembled’ clause is ridiculous for a company that are happy to have their frames sold mail order, but it will allow them to legally refuse this claim so there’s not much more you can do

OP unfortunately your best bet is to just buy the new front triangle and then sell the whole frame and buy something different from a manufacturer/distributor that doesn’t weasel out of their warranty obligations. Thanks for posting this though as it’s only through threads like this that we can learn who stands by their warranties and who doesn’t

Structurally, I’d say no difference between a 100mm 27.2 – 31.6 dia shim & 100mm of 31.6 dia post, & they know it. They are just ducking out of a bit of work by twisting the wording.

Fobbing off going on here as usual.
Freeborn should put this to Devinci & back-up their customer FFS.
What’s it going to cost them anyway, as it will just go back to Devinci.

Have to agree that warranty wording sucks. I take it as you can’t even change your own tyres!

If the op sends the grand in and gets the same response then that’s rubbish. I certain won’t buy a Devinci based on this.

A shim is a bodge.

Nice bike…. wait a minute its a Giant. I’m out!

Why? You can’t get a Thomson seatpost in a D-shaped hole

But I don’t like the seat so changing that would render the warranty invalid. 🙂

But I don’t like the seat so changing that would render the warranty invalid.

Well, it’s a moot point, as I will knacker the warranty when I fit different wheels* 🙁

*Possibly.

talking again about head-set reducers and seatpost shims…

this is Knolly Warranty Info:

“It does not cover damage caused by the use or installation of non-recommended parts e.g forks that exceed the maximum recommended travel length, seat post shims, head-set reducers, non-approved rear shocks etc”

http://www.knollybikes.co.uk/knollywarrantyin.html

Freeborn sold me a head-set reducer with the frame but for them using a setpost shim is a crime 😀

Serious brands (like Knolly) have serious warranty info, CHEATERS like Devinci will cheat you whenever they can, with the COLLABORATION of Freeborn

I don’t understand – why have you not sent the frame back to them?

All these warranties are to a greater or lesser extent cop outs. A shim may, in some cases, cause extra stress around the weld. Longer travel front forks may increase the load at the front enough to cause a weld to fail.
The frame manufacturer isn’t going to work out exactly what force will result in a failure, and how that related to shim size or fork travel.
Therefore, the easy option is to say no shims, no extra travel.

What have Freeborn got to do with Devinci’s warranty wording?

Think your getting confused!

if you can’t afford a new one i would bond the shim into it and see how long it lasts

seems peculiar that its cracked along the edge of a weld even bikes that dont have a shim have been known to crack along the edge of a weld,

I don’t understand – why have you not sent the frame back to them?

Because it will cost him a fortune and they’ve already told him there’s unlikely to be any point. We’ve been through this.

thanks grum

What have Freeborn got to do with Devinci’s warranty wording?

Think your getting confused!

Hi Mosey

Freeborn have assumed the decisión of Devinci with no doubt, I have asked them the exact point where Devinci says that I can not use a shim and they told me that the point 8 is very clear about that. I have read that point several times (and the others too) and the only thing that I read about seatpost is the minium insert.

Devinci and Freeborn are in the same boat on this

All these warranties are to a greater or lesser extent cop outs. A shim may, in some cases, cause extra stress around the weld. Longer travel front forks may increase the load at the front enough to cause a weld to fail.
The frame manufacturer isn’t going to work out exactly what force will result in a failure, and how that related to shim size or fork travel.
Therefore, the easy option is to say no shims, no extra travel

This is what Giant tried to argue but on a similar note there was no rider weight limit for the bike. So I could have been 20stone heavier and it would have been okay but change one seatpost for another voided the warranty. Just makes the manufacturers look stupid.

May be the most famous british bike Brand is Orange, at least here in Spain

Please, watch this:

FAQ — What size seat post/front mech or bottom bracket will fit my bike?

http://orangebikes.co.uk/support/faq/useful_frame_dimensions

Here’s a thought (and I have read all the posts!)…

Could it be their offer is a default position for warranty issues where costs would be incurred by both parties?

Saves hassle for them, for you, and for £350 you get a new front triangle at your door. They probably make no profit on the sale, but save costs of investigation and the fact they’ve indicated they’re not likely to side with you, could be a fair (as mentioned before, a default position) compromise.

Yes you’ve been sitched slightly in their position on the shim.business, but unless you’re prepared to spend money & time perusing your claim, I’d take the £350 new triangle.

There’s a phrase “suck it up”, could be time to do this take the offer and just learn from it.

Good luck, but make a decision!!

Yes you’ve been sitched slightly in their position on the shim.business, but unless you’re prepared to spend money & time perusing your claim, I’d take the £350 new triangle.

I put you some words of other who have perfectly shown my feels:

“Personally, if I felt badly treated by a company the last thing I’d do is send them more money”

Hence my suggestion of “suck it up” and learn from it.

It’s the best thing to do sometimes; look after your own interest rather than getting angry about a situation you have little control over, or as it appears, prepared to try to take control of.

Of course, you could persue it, fight it, badger them, make them take notice.

You could lose though, be more angry and more out of pocket.

Anyhow, was just a thought.

Yep if you fight it and do whatever you will still probably end up without a working bike.

This is what Giant tried to argue but on a similar note there was no rider weight limit for the bike. So I could have been 20stone heavier and it would have been okay but change one seatpost for another voided the warranty. Just makes the manufacturers look stupid.

So, if you had left swapped the seatpost to original before taking it back to Giant, they would have warrantied it?

I still can’t believe, as in I am surprised a company the size of Giant tried to dodge the bullet, that they used this as a cop out.

I’d say this part of the warranty wording is more relevant than the ambiguous seat reference;

* Parts not supplied by devinci with the bicycle or not indicated in
the user’s manual for all frames or the technical manual for the
frames with double suspension were used;

If you spend £350 on a new triangle would you use the shim again or would you get the correct size post?

I’ve got a number of problems with this thread – Mostly in the thread title. The use of the word ‘cheat’ is just bloody stupid. The OP has published that on the internet. And it’s been picked up quite rightly by other parties implicated in this. What we have here is classic I warranty issues between customer and seller that need to be sorted out between the two parties AWAY from the internet. At least at first. Posting inflammatory ‘statements’ on our forum using words like ‘cheat’ is going to spoil my Sunday. I’m editing the title of the post and the mods will be keeping a very close watch on this thread.

Don’t be stupid when writing forum titles, no matter how upset you are.

Oooh, can we suggest new thread titles?

Grim shim & warranty slim – out on a limb?

Hi Mark

I recognize that your title is far better than mine.

My apologies

“Used a shim, feel a bit dim – bikes in the bin”

“Another manufacturers who passes the buck”

I suspect this will be locked very shortly. You may be out of frame but the social outcry has cost far more damage to Devinci. I’ve looked at their bikes in the past but I wont be buying one.

@ Jamie. Yes and what’s worse is I had a clean out and dumped the seat post a month or so beforehand. Giant offered a good will gesture of an aluminium frame but the very fact I could have bought it cheaper in a shop annoyed me. They also picked up that the wheels were different and summarised it was probably as a result of an accident. In fact it was a dry tubeless setup (I had wheel sets coming out of my ears at that time – 19 spares wheels for 9 bikes).

Any and every straw grabbed. All dismissed apart from the change of seatpost. At the end of the day its seems to explain why their “bikes are such good value for money” and generally discounted.

Hi pjm84

I think that we, the customers, have the responsibility to relate these cases to avoid abuses of bike brands or to know which brands are “honest”

Of course telling always the truth

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op7c83bMkyQ[/video]

In the aid of balance, and apologies for the mild thread hijack, but would be interested to know if pjm84’s experience was an isolated incident, or more pervasive.

I have dealt with Freeborn a lot. Like Duir I had one of the original Spitfires with the bushing problems and was offered a very good price on the Dixon. After a year one of the bottle bosses was coming loose. I sent the frame back to Joe at Freeborn and he fixed the boss, put in a completelty new pivot kit, serviced and added a volume reducer to the shock. There was no charge for any of it.

In my experience Freeborn will do the best they can for their customers. If DeVinci aren’t going to support warranty claims for shimmed seatposts then that is their decision. It is hard on a small business like Freeborn, expecting them to take a £350 hit on a new front triangle and then slating them on here when you don’t get your way.

Its pretty common for expensive warranty claims to require the return of the broken part. I would have expected Freeborn to give you an honest appraisal of the warranty issue and more than likely to build your frame back up and service your shock while they were at it.

The other thing you need to accept is when you buy an expensive piece of sports equipment from the far side of Europe, you might have to send it back if something goes wrong. Its frustrating having to strip the frame to get it looked at but its the only way to get it sorted.

The other thing you need to accept is when you buy an expensive piece of sports equipment from the far side of Europe, you might have to send it back if something goes wrong. Its frustrating having to strip the frame to get it looked at but its the only way to get it sorted.

Hi Shandy

I have said several times that I was disposed to send the frame to the UK. But after they saw that I a used a shim the have not asked me to send back the frame

It gets worse….

I had a long conversation with the Warranty manager who provided the “unofficial” response. I told him if it was cosmetic then I wasn’t interested in a replacement. Its a MTB for FFS.

A promise of an XRAY was offered to support the unofficial line and he would ring me back the next day once he had set the wheels in motion. He also suggested maybe riding a 22″ carbon to reduce the flex to this area and he had a frame showing in Europe which he would try and track down and see what the cost price was as an alternative option.

He never rung me back. I chased him a dozen times, left messages / emails. I spoke to his staff and they said sorry its a conversation between you and him and we cant do anything. Still have his number on my mobile.

I have said several times that I was disposed to send the frame to the UK. But after they saw that I a used a shim the have not asked me to send back the frame

Presumably that is still an option unless you have fallen out with them completely?!

Presumably that is still an option unless you have fallen out with them completely?!

Now I am not disposed to send them the frame, unless they send me a new one before

I have absolutely lost the reliability on this people and I think that an objective review of the frame is not possible after this thread

I’d say this part of the warranty wording is more relevant than the ambiguous seat reference;

* Parts not supplied by devinci with the bicycle or not indicated in
the user’s manual for all frames or the technical manual for the
frames with double suspension were used;

I bought only the frame, it is very dificult to use a bike without a seatpost, wheels, fork…

Take the new front triangle offer. Sell the whole frame with new front triangle. Buy a frame from a manufacturer with good customer service that has proper warranty.
Good luck.