Want (road content)

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  • Want (road content)
  • oldgit
    Member


    Though 2.5k seems a bit steep for a 725 frame.

    Looks like athena groupset too, so someway from the top of the campag tree. Seems like a lot of money to me (although it’s very pretty).

    MrSmith
    Member

    horrible badge engineered re-issue.
    there are lots of better bikes out there for the money (steel ones too)

    Goz
    Member

    I remember seeing one of the original frames in Thirteens cycle shop in watford back in 76,at a cost of £56….those were the days.

    aP
    Member

    Tis a bit spendy, would look better with Neutrons than 3G wheels.

    pebble
    Member

    I have this New Old Stock 56cm Kona Kapu for sale at a lot less money.
    E-mail if interested robin.stones@tesco.net

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    It’s on a very Ltd run… 200 I seem to remember… We’ve got one on order for a customer

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    The real deal (a friend’s Holdsworth Pro):

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    monoped is he?

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    Do these old school geometry steel frames ride as nicely as modern bikes?

    oldgit
    Member

    It does seem dear. I now have my finger over the buy button for a Mercian Strada Speciale in Merckx/Moltini orange.

    MrSmith
    Member

    Do these old school geometry steel frames ride as nicely as modern bikes?

    depends on the construction, if it’s made of lugged stovepipe like old racers then no. tigged oversize steel with 1-1/8 headtubes and proper headsets with carbon forks are a totally different proposition

    oldgit
    Member

    geoffj different, what were once great race frames now seem comfortable but rapid cruisers?

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    OP, that’s awful. Retro steel frame with “fancy” wheels, it just doesn’t work. Massively overpriced too for what it is. It’d look OK if you built it up with a Campag Delta groupset or a Shimano 600 for proper retro value of even if you just put some normal wheels on it – 32H Open Pros, 3x lacing etc, not those dreadful Campag abominations.

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    Same friend’s fully original Masi Prestige with full Super Record. He knows he should sell it, but can’t quite bring himself..!

    cynic-al
    Member

    if it’s made of lugged stovepipe like old racers then no

    531 rides very well IMO, but I find oversized stuff and carbon too stiff…but then I’m not bothered about finshing a few seconds ahead of my fellow pasty chubber roadie mates!

    Steel race bikes are pointless, retro ones even worse. They are overpriced to lure newbie non racers too old to be a fixie-hipster into the whole “bikes are cool” posturing.

    Think of the carbon bike you could get for 2.5k. I bet you one could be found that would ride nicer, be lighter, stiffer and more aero.

    Premier Icon cp
    Subscriber

    I’m sort of with leggy blonde. Really not into old school steel for road bikes. I’ve had a couple – a Dave Hinde custom job (what a mistake that whole palava was) and a Fuji track.

    I’d ridden an old Cannondale road bike prior to these, and they just didn’t compare (OK, the fuji was in a completely different price point), but the DH was some nice Columbus tubeset.

    I guess for me the whole point of a road bike is speed & unfortunately old school steel just doesn’t cut it for me.

    Definitely DON’T want!!

    aP
    Member

    I like my custom 853 Andy Thompson road frame – built to just take Salmon guards with standard drop brakes, it rides nice although not the lightest bike in the world. For lighter bigger riding I have a 6/4 frame with a pair of those awful 3G Campag wheels 😉

    mrmo
    Member

    Retro steel does serve a purpose, but I guess it depends on what you want from the bike. This is my Lemond, campag mix, open pros, amd a Platinum OX frame. 19lbs so is on the heavy side but for a sunday morning cruise through the Cotswolds it is nice.

    (Not the cotswolds!)

    Whilst the holdsworth looks nice i would be wanting 853 or equivalent for that sort of money

    warton
    Member

    if it’s made of lugged stovepipe like old racers then no

    My mate rides a colnago master, with the steel precise fork, and it rides like an absolute dream, its in a total different class to anything I have ridden before. thats his summer bike, his winter bike is an Pinarello FP3, he’s minted!

    oldgit
    Member

    crazy-legs the more I look at it the more I think no! For a limited edition at that price you’d think they’d go to town on frame detail.
    I think there’s a place for bikes that aren’t purely efficient racing machines. For example I have three bikes – a carbon road bike built and geared for racing in the LVRC. A cyclcross bike which I race in the Central League and a Giant XTC hardtail build World Cups, XT/XTR Hope Mavics etc that gets raced and rarely ridden otherwise.
    So I’ve always fancied a Colnago Master for lets say ‘Gentleman Rides’, but they’re nearing £1800….and not worth it IMO.
    So it looks like a Mercian (or a n other) with SRAM Rival, Brooks and Deda finishing equipment and Shimano/Mavic handbuilts. Oh and the Pavé tyres just to add a bit more weight.

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    Transpires that Holdsworth of my mates up there^^^ was apparently built for ex-GB pro Roger Newton.

    Oldgit – what size frame do you take? Same mate is considering a bit of a clearout, and may have a suitable old frame you could build up.

    MrSmith
    Member

    if you want a modern steel frame at a resonable price then rourke or enigma would be a good choice. tigged or fillet brazed using oversise deda and columbus tubing. good value for a custom frame and a world away from an old quill stemmed noddle from yesteryear.

    mogrim
    Member

    Nice looking bike, when I’m rich I’ll have something similar for those lazy long summer century+ rides. And a full-on carbon speed machine for the shorter stuff.

    Not forgetting the cross bike, the long travel bike, etc. etc.

    Anyway, I thought we’d agreed to call it “darkside”?

    tony_m
    Member

    Walkers Cycling had a couple of the Holdsworths on their stand at the Braveheart Ride last October – very nice indeed! 8)

    One was definitely on offer at £2000, don’t know about the other…

    oldgit
    Member

    ourmaninthenorth
    I’m a 53 C-T, thing is I want to run modern kit on a steel frame and some of the older steels have narrow hub spacing.

    In my diary I’ve specced a bike, nothing at all flash. I looked at Mercian first, but I’ve gone for Bob Jackson mainly on price spec for spec.
    105 running gear except the chainset which is a SRAM only because I like the aesthetics of their ‘spindlier?’ chainsets, Brooks Swift, Deda silver bars/stem/post and 105/mavics.
    I was going to get a replacement cross bike this year, but I’m putting that on hold as mines only done two seasons. But I’ve been really putting in road miles.

    clwydrider
    Member

    If you are spending that much on a steel bike I’d go custom. My Rourkie 953 cost under 3k when I bought it a few years ago, though I was lucky with getting a bearly used Record groupset and tune wheels off a mate for less than he paid for the wheels!
    I am sure you could build yourself something really nice and unique for that sort of cash.

    oldgit
    Member

    clwydrider
    The Bob Jackson will be half that amount. Don’t forget I’ve got some nice racing bikes, this is for day to day rides, but mostly from Autumn to Spring when the roads are at their worst.

    Premier Icon schmiken
    Subscriber

    That Holdsworth that the OP posted is nice, but would really need silver bars, stem and post. And bin those wheels and get some 32h 3x Campag hubs on Ambrosio Neutron or similar.

    Sorry but the frame looks ordinary and trying too hard to be different. Hasnt even got shot in stays at the seat tube or small rear dropouts. crazy legs is right , those wheels look rank on that bike. That rear wheel look awful.

    The Kona underneath looks miles better with its chrome lugs and nice forks.

    Sorry but there are a million ways you could better spend that sort of cash.

    ….and that black seatpost is also wrong.

    Rik
    Member

    Lighter, stiffer and more areo

    for 2.5k

    What a load of tosh, sanme as the guy who thinks 19lb is heavy for a road bike (nice bike btw – would love an early lemond) Unless you have a fat to body weight percentage of <15% and huge bulging legs then it’s all a load of crap.

    The road world is not like mtb with slack geometry and 150mm on a hardtail.

    Stiff road bikes seem like the worse nightmare imaginable. Do you need the stiffnesss for your regular Sunday road ride or are you a a world class rider who needs that extra acceleration out of the corner on that city centre crit race or that mountain breakaway, oh no prob not….

    mrmo
    Member

    Rik, not saying 19lbs is heavy, just when you look at the carbon bikes for similar money then it is a couple of pounds more. It is a very nice bike to go out and ride, i don’t race so the lightest stiffest bike is of no interest.

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    I’m a 53 C-T, thing is I want to run modern kit on a steel frame and some of the older steels have narrow hub spacing.

    oldgit – I’ll see what he’s got. Thing is, he was emailing me yesterday about having a clearout of some of his old frames. But I think they might be slightly bigger than 53 (maybe 54)

    Macavity
    Member

    Track down Geoff Wiles he will probably still be riding around on one.
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/TeamPics/GeoffWiles_72_73.jpg
    Geoff (bless the boy) has a story about starting Paris-Roubaix on a Holdsworth that was not idealy suited to cobbles, and not finishing…..
    http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/Holdsworth/hold_dales_full.htm

    oldgit
    Member

    oldgit – I’ll see what he’s got. Thing is, he was emailing me yesterday about having a clearout of some of his old frames. But I think they might be slightly bigger than 53 (maybe 54)

    54 might be okay in old money. I think my older bikes might have been nearer that, when you just had a few inches of post showing.

    Rik
    Member

    Mrmo – not aimed at you at all.

    Just saying the fact that the whole road world has gone silly recently with stiffness in frames and forks and everything else. Plus <16lb bikes.

    Mountain bike geometry has changed in epic terms but road bikes in the 80s felt right and still do (I’m 30 btw so was not around 1st time round but have road plenty of older frames and still do).

    I ride a beautiful lugged 1986 Gazelle Champion Mondial 753 by choice. I’m no retrobike lover either, steel if done right is comfy, stiff enough for any non pro, light and so so so not out of date.

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    mrmo: “19lbs so is on the heavy side”
    Rik: “What a load of tosh, sanme as the guy who thinks 19lb is heavy for a road bike”
    mrmo: “Rik, not saying 19lbs is heavy”
    Rik: “Mrmo – not aimed at you at all.”

    Huh?

    What frame material do you two recommend for massive backpedalling?

    mrmo
    Member

    Bez, not back pedalling at all, Look at the marketplace, for the price of my Lemond you can get a much lighter carbon bike. So on that basis it is heavy. But 19lbs by any normal standard is not heavy. Its 6lbs less than my MTB, go back to the days of 531 and it is a fair few pounds less. Even the early Cannondale 3 series and Trek OCLV road bikes weighed more.

    Would i try and actively save weight off my road bike, NO. I have the cheapest campag cassette on it, it is 9spd. it uses a square taper btm bracket. Will i change bits, yes, in due course i would like to fit a full Athena Alu groupset because it is aesthetically better than the carbon stuff. Which i guess sums up my attitude to road bikes.

    TheDoctor
    Member

    Hmm 19lbs for a steel road bike isn’t bad, but you can do better my 60cm Steel road bike is 16.5 lbs, rides better than any other bike I have tried. Although I still have a desire to get a nice carbon frame like a Time or Parlee.

    alexathome
    Member

    Steel bikes and plastic bikes do ride quite differently in my opinion. I’ve got a steel, an Aluminium and a full cabon bike at the moment. The steel one is a lugged Supercorsa, the Aluminium is an Racelight RC2 and the plactic one is a R3SL. They are all set up with pretty good kit. The Cinelli probably weighs in around 20.5 the RC2 at 16 and the R3SL around 15. The setup is kind of similar, in terms of where the wheels are, bars, saddle etc, crank length etc. I’d like to put my finger on what makes them all different in terms of how they ride, but it’s not easy to do.

    I’d say that the R3SL is the most comfy bike on a long ride, as well as the quickest. it is only 6 lbs lighter than the Supercorsa, but is much more responsive, even if you are loaded down with 2 full water bottles and running the same wheelset.

    The Supercorsa gives you a warm glow inside to look at, if you like that kind of thing. The RC2 is just a fantastic do anything road bike, light, fast, responsive. The frame is very stiff, in the front half. This is not a attribute to be ignored when picking a bike. I have had bikes (steel, titanium and Carbon) that have scared me silly when either decending or sprinting.

    Basically i guess that you can’t really judge how a bike is going to ride by the material that it’s made from. With aluminium to some extent this is possible i guess, as they are on the whole going to be reasonably stiff. But i’ve have lightweight steel frames that have been hideously uncomfortable and carbon frames that have been like spongecake.

    Ride before you buy.

    woffle
    Member

    Independent Fabrication XS. Ti and carbon.

    want.

    However, it’s unsurprisingly silly money – nearly $7K for F&F (that’s without taxes and shipping too), with 8-10 week delivery…

    oldgit
    Member

    TheDoctor…quite.
    I had a very brief aquaintance with a guy called Mike Olheiser (at the time world masters TT champion) he left behind a steel/Dura Ace road bike and it was staggeringly light. I think it might have been a Massi or Fuji. Though I did notice it was covered in dents?

    Am I correct in thinking that Reynolds are chasing a steel that could compete with carbon?

    MrSmith
    Member

    not all steel frames ride like wet noodles.
    my pegoretti rides more like a carbon bike, the downtube is the same diameter as the head tube (38mm down tube/32mm seat and TT). most people look at it and think it aluminium.
    it’s about 18lb. i could build it lighter but i’m happy with the dura-ace/ultegra/DT/thomson mix of parts, it certainly doesn’t ride heavy.
    stiff, direct steering but comfortable enough to ride all day (plenty of centuries (imperial not metric) plus tour of flanders sportives.
    i wouldn’t want any other bike apart from another pegoretti, or perhaps a plastic bike that takes mudgaurds for the winter.

    oldgit
    Member

    Never ever seen a Pegoretti in the flesh, meant to be worlds apart from other steel frames.

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