Walna Scar Sanitisation.

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  • Walna Scar Sanitisation.
  • Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Rode it for the first time two weekends ago, but I think I was a bit too late.

    🙁

    Premier Icon lowey
    Subscriber

    Heard a bit about it, but was browsing SFB’s pics and was frankly horrified.

    Couple of questions:-

    why do it in the first place and secondly, how did they get the funding. I work in the civils industry and there would be not much change out of 80k for the work that I have seen from pics alone!

    gutted.

    Premier Icon trout
    Subscriber

    heyup lowey. any chance of a linky to said pics

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    Yeah they keep doing this shame for us but it’s to suit other uses. Let’s hope this predicted snow does it’s job and washes it out.

    ChrisE
    Member

    You’ve got to look at a bigger picture. The Lakes and the countryside in general is for everyone for peaceful enjoyment and if it gets a hundred other people out, enjoying the area, perhaps on foot or on their Aldi bikes while you can now only push to the limits on the hundreds of other BWs in the Lakes that are rough and rocky, is that(over all) a bad thing? Routes like the Mary Townley Loop, the Pennine Bridleway, the South Downs Way and many more, although they have been engineered to some extent, what a fabulous resource for the other 99% of society.

    The fact that you’re not likely to have the peace and isolation shattered by a convoy of Kanku 4x4s or of motorbikes alone makes it so much better than any loss by the sanitisation.

    Ave you run out of challenging places to ride yet. I’m nowhere near running out yet but maybe I’m just not very good at riding………………….

    bjj.andy.w
    Member

    Get yourself to Walna scar then it’s easy peasy now, just like riding a pavement. One of the best bw in the lakes is no more( hopefully for the time being). If they want to sanitise public rights of way do the footpaths. You know, the ones were not allowed to go on.

    uplink
    Member

    There’s plenty of other places to ride if you don’t like what they’ve done to it, time and weather will take it back anyway

    Last time I was up there, I was talking to a group of blind students enjoying the exposure – superb

    trailmonkey
    Member

    damn. was hoping to ride that next year 😥

    highclimber
    Member

    The lakes is one of the wettest places in the UK and looking at the state of most highways after a couple harsh winters, I suspect that the baby’s bottom that is Walna Scar will soon get a bit weathered!

    Meanwhile, there are some other excellent BW’s you can ride like Garburn Pass or High street.

    grum
    Member

    The fact that you’re not likely to have the peace and isolation shattered by a convoy of Kanku 4x4s or of motorbikes alone makes it so much better than any loss by the sanitisation.

    I’ve ridden Walna Scar a few times, and never seen 4x4s or motorbikes on it. Probably won’t bother again now.

    The trouble with this is, even when it inevitably washes away, it’s going to leave big swathes of soft gravel all over the nice rock.

    I’m not really sure who this benefits either?

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    Meanwhile, there are some other excellent BW’s you can ride like Garburn Pass or High street.

    I thought Garburn pass was up for the same treatment?

    highclimber
    Member

    quite possibly but it’s far from sanitised as of yet.

    yunki
    Member

    from Barnes’ pic’s that old track looks minging.. not technical and yet not smooth and flowing.. just covered in annoying stones..

    one to avoid..

    at least with the new surface the wife and kids could get something out of it..

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    This is the problem with trying to achieve sustainable development. The Lakes suffers from too many people focusing their activities on too few areas eg, tourists in Bowness, walkers in Dungeon Ghyll, bikers on mountain passes etc.

    This leads to tough decisions if the needs of the “now” conflict with the needs of the future. Hence the increasing use of sanitised footpaths over the past 10-15 years.

    Its a shame that WS has needed to be addressed like this – mainly because I like to run there. But if this is what is required then so be it.

    I have enjoyed the Lakes fells for over 40 years and as a mtb I know that I am in the minority when I say that the high fells should be left for walkers rather than horses, motorbikes or even (dare I say it) mtb. There are plenty of places to mtb in the area without adding to the excess erosion on areas like WS.

    But if people continue to overuse and erode these areas – the consequences are there for us all to see. Sadly!

    trailmonkey
    Member

    one to avoid..

    from what i’d heard from si, epic was a more apt description.

    I thought Garburn pass was up for the same treatment?

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    I thought Garburn had been done this year too?

    They’ve been done before anyway and soon return, the 4×4 were good at helping them along too seen plenty on them in the past.

    Premier Icon Stopadoodledoo
    Subscriber

    yunki – Member
    from Barnes’ pic’s that old track looks minging.. not technical and yet not smooth and flowing.. just covered in annoying stones..

    one to avoid..

    at least with the new surface the wife and kids could get something out of it..

    I don’t think you would like the Lake District; probably best if you stick to trail centres

    yunki
    Member

    I don’t think you would like the Lake District; probably best if you stick to trail centres

    fo’ sho’ mo’ fo’.. 8)

    from what i’d heard from si, epic was a more apt description.

    It looks like a big thick layer of those nasty black rocks similar to the section on the cheeky path along the river back from bridge too far.. an epic pain in the arse..

    I was being a bit of a troll really though and I apologise.. If that sort of thing happened on our local trails I would quite possibly weep..

    and I’d give my last rolo and probably my left ball to ride those Lakes mountain passes..

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    But the question remains who has it been sanitised for? It’s a bloody big lump you’ve got to get over to sample it. Have mtb parents been thinking “yeah I’d drag my kids over that but not with all these nasty rocks”. Have ramblers been asking for smoother trails? Horse riders fancy giving it a go?

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Good question Donk.

    Has it actually been sanitised or is that just our perception?

    Is there drainage involved?
    Is it just an attempt to force all users onto one area and stop the spread of erosion?

    If they wanted to stop some users they could make it a rough as hell – but then the erosion would spread to the sides. The joys of sustainable development!!

    grum
    Member

    I have enjoyed the Lakes fells for over 40 years and as a mtb I know that I am in the minority when I say that the high fells should be left for walkers rather than horses, motorbikes or even (dare I say it) mtb. There are plenty of places to mtb in the area without adding to the excess erosion on areas like WS.

    Why?

    Wozza
    Member

    Is that picture the side that leads down into Torver?

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    There are plenty of places to mtb in the area without adding to the excess erosion on areas like WS.

    You are assuming that bikes cause more erosion than walkers and that is as yet unconfirmed.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Coniston side Wozza.

    DONK + 1

    Really curious as to what drives this kind of work. How does the decision to do this get made and who is the intended beneficiary?

    jeffcapeshop
    Member

    i cause a lot more erosion with my bike than with my feet.

    Wozza
    Member

    Coniston side Wozza.

    Gutted, the boulder field was great.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Grum and geoffj – yes, the evidence is not crystal clear and will depend on the balance of numbers. But one/one the impact of a foot versus a wheel seems pretty clear to me….particularly in the wet.

    Anyway, probably shouldn’t have posted this, as it is more of a gut feel for me and a red herring here. I love mtb but still feel uncomfortable seeing bikes on the high fells. Maybe I am too old and fuddy duddy :wink:?

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    When I rode it two weeks ago only the bottom third had been done, plenty of fun above that.

    There was a digger up by the gnarliest section though, so I imagine it’s all for the same treatment if not been filled in already.

    grum
    Member

    Grum and geoffj – yes, the evidence is not crystal clear and will depend on the balance of numbers. But one/one the impact of a foot versus a wheel seems pretty clear to me….particularly in the wet.

    Maybe on a boggy track but a lot of the Lake District stuff is stony anyway – there is also evidence that lots of the tiny ‘steps’ cut by walkers boots on steep ground are actually worse for erosion than a more spread out tyre tread.

    The numbers of bikers riding ‘high mountain passes’ are actually fairly minimal also.

    “Over time the track in places has developed into a bowl shape which just funnels the water down its length, stripping path materials and depositing them into Cove Beck. The sub-soiling technique, which is used extensively within the Lake District, uses the hard wearing material beneath the surface to create a hard wearing path surface,” said National Park Paths for the Public Development Officer Dylan Jackman.

    http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/gtga_np_news-article.htm?newsid=21829

    jwt
    Member

    By the time march rolls around I imagine they’ll be a big pile of gravel at the top car park………..in the meantime its not like theres no where else to ride in the lakes.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Grum – I understand your comments and as I said, excuse my ‘personal’ red herring!! Interesting quote- thanks – that is normally the case. Not nice to look at though.

    I was riding some singletrack in the S of Eng yesterday and was conscious of the trail that I was leaving. Then I cam round a corner onto the bridleway used by motorbikes and 4×4 and didn’t feel quite to bad.

    Premier Icon rangerbill
    Subscriber

    As someone who works in the Public Sector and Countryside its always hard to put up with the ‘oh no they’ve gone and ruined another trail’ complaints AFTER the event.
    I did write into the Access debate but it never got mentioned so here is my advice:
    The Public Sector does what the Public asks them to do. If the public say a section of FP/BW is impassable then the Local Authority will go out and do something about it.

    Singletrack have met CMBC staff about which trails they really like in there current state. They have marked them on a CMBC map so if any complaints come in about the state of the route CMBC can now decide whether to leave the route as it is or to carry out work. IF they carry out the work they know to contact MTB groups.

    Did anyone here write to Cumbria to say which routes they like, have they met with the PROW dept and marked on a map the routes that they like?

    If and when the LA do the work it will be to the standard specification for Bridleways which is 3m wide with a camber or crossfall and no obstructions.

    Looking at the picture of Walna Scar it looks like some kind of Sub soil track with a kind of softcore IMBA spec. It is hard to use the full IMBA spec for BW (we’ve used it on the new PBW section over the moors down to Thursden and Tony has used it to link Lee and Cragg Quarry) as horses struggle to see the rolling grade dips and this can cause them to trip/stumble. We have had complaints about them.

    So to summarize, please dont complain AFTER the event. Next time you enjoy a ride over an eroded section of trail. Mark it on a map and go to the PROW officer and say ‘this bit is fantastic’, ‘please dont do any work to it’ and if you do please can you consult my local MTB club/IMBA/CTC first.

    If you dont someone will complain its too rocky and before you know it, its 3m wide with no obstructions.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    great response rangerbill 🙂

    CTC need to set up the opposite of their ‘report a pot hole’ app to allow people to report great bits of bridleway/Boat/etc to their Local authorities online.

    richpips
    Member

    It’s not the first time that the Coniston side of WS has been improved.

    Duddon side seems to be ignored though. 🙂

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Thanks for your contribution Ranger Bill.

    In your opinion what sort of influence would comments from MTBers carry in the making of a decision for work like this to be carried out?

    Premier Icon rangerbill
    Subscriber

    Well it seems to have worked with Singletrack and CMBC. If you have the opinions of 10 MTBers saying the trail is great and doesn’t need any work against one person who says the track is impassable. You might be able to put off proposed work on trails.

    I use this method all the time. If someone complains about a section I ask horse riders what they think (most of them like a challenging route as well) and I’ll go out and look at it also (as a MTBer).

    With budget cuts as they are, LA (local Authorities) are always trying to spend their budget wisely so if they have a group of people saying, ‘look this track is fine, its passable and its rideable’ the PROW officer will go with that as it may save them money and they can channel their funds elsewhere.

    I used to go to a lot of IMBA conferences but got a bit fed up with the whole trail centre emphasis of it all. Wwaswas is right, either the CTC or IMBA need to sort out a national ‘This Trail Is Ace And It Doesnt Need Any Work…For A Bit’ (I know, catchy huh!) where people can map the bits they like and send it in.

    HOWEVER, its really not that hard to do it. Get on your LA website find the Public Rights of Way contact, arrange a meeting, get a map and a highlight pen and discuss.

    Making a sweeping statement/generalization, those who complain are usually quite nesh. Ive had complaints about puddles because someone had spent £150 on new hiking boots and didn’t want to get them dirty! Unfortunatly these type of complaints are the ones that make trails become sanitized.

    Do your bit!

    Premier Icon lowey
    Subscriber

    Exactly the response I was after to my question Rangerbill.. thanks for that. Good comments to on how we as a user group can maybe establish a voice to contribute.

    richpips, the Duddon side from the pass to the quarry was done long ago and is a race track. The bit from the quarry to Hollin House Haw I should imagine may well be next. Follows on from the sanitisation to Old Park to Newfield Inn bw.

    Premier Icon lowey
    Subscriber

    Just saw your next post as I typed my reply.

    This is a great idea… there are literally hundreds of tracks in the lakes that we as bikers would agree are brilliant and therefore dont need any work… It would be good if we could get a voice and do as RB says… maybe a thread highlighting our favorite tracks that could be in line for sanitisation.

    grum
    Member

    Follows on from the sanitisation to Old Park to Newfield Inn bw.

    Is that the bit from Stephenson Ground into Seathwaite? Didn’t realise they had done that too 🙁

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