and yet smoking is banned everywhere, even though it kills less than air pollution in cities

id love to see a mayor ban i.c.e. in london, for example

The diesel or petrol issue for cars is a false dichotomy and always has been. The reality is in urban and sub urban centres personal motorised transport of any kind…petrol, diesel or electric is deeply antisocial and damaging.

Disaster for businesses as a very large number of people would do their shopping outside

This old chestnut, which also gets trotted out whenever the sacred parking spots are under threat? Shame it’s nonsense.

We can agree to differ then chaps. When they tried to do away with free single yellow parking after 6:30 in central London it was overturned rapidly after complaints from business, they keep having this no cars debate in Paris and businesses are very afraid of the impact on them. You can see the impact when due to pollution they restrict car access and business activity drops a lot. Plus how would everyone who lives in the city centre manage if they couldn’t use their own car?

No cars isn’t going to happen but no diesels or hybrids only might. In time.

I am reassured that there is no way my 22 year old Defender can have software that cheats the emissions tests. It might kill polar bears, but at least it’s honest about it.

Every business in Amsterdam and Groningen is bust….FACT

business overall won’t suffer. People will still buy food and clothes. They just might buy them somewhere else, if they decide they absolutely can’t walk / use park and ride / the bus / the train / their bike / etc

obviously businesses in the city centres will whinge. Businesses in the suburbs will probably be in favour…

Pretty sure internal combustion engines are not banned from Amsterdam.

Dissuaded maybe. Banned no, except in pedestrianised zones that have delivery access possibly with limited hours. Much like lots of places actually.

Diesel isn’t going away. Only might be urged not to be used in some portions of transport. Although now could be a perfect time to pull a Merkel and gain some political popularity points.

Amsterdam aint car free your right but groinegan is- as are assen , leuwarrden and nijmegans city centres.

Groinigan and leuwarrden being two of the biggest with over 1square kilometer closed to cars.

I still think that this is trade tarrifs by the backdoor. same as the yanks have ill treated BP, Standard Chartered, HSBC and loads of other non US companies for breaching their shitty unilateral sanctions and what not.

I think you mean “pissing crude all over the Gulf”, “money laundering to cover up Iranian trading” and “conducting financial business in the U.S. without a licence”. Neither do you mention BNY Mellon, Citigroup or Fannie Mae, three examples of American firms being recently smashed by the American regulators for doing shitty things in America.

I don’t have a lot to offer (as usual) but earlier in the week I met with two good friends who have a very good technical and commercial knowledge on this within the industry and their comments were that this will be the death of the Diesel Engine in Cars. Within the industry seemingly, this has been known about for a long time and they’ve all been on borrowed time waiting to find out. At the end of the decade too, the stricter EURO emissions laws that are coming into effect will all but make diesel engines non-competitive with their petrol siblings.

@LHS I really don’t think this will be the end of diesel not least because of the amount that’s been invested, it’s just too much to walk away from. These engines can pass the tests as VW proved, they can be run legally. It’s just the fuel economy and performance won’t be the same, that’s my understanding.

BTW saw a number of articles quoting lawyers in the UK looking to launch class action suits not least as some of the impacted models cost more due to their “eco friendliness” and as above road tax may go up on impacted cars so they get compensated. Also if the fix results in reduced performance then compensation will be due

It’s just the fuel economy and performance won’t be the same, that’s my understanding.

Indeed.

So either they allow a performance and economy drop that does not make a diesel engine competitive over an equivalent petrol, or they introduce technology which adds cost to the car.

We will see, early days, but these gentlemen have collectively over 50 years technical and commercial experience in the industry and are well published and were pretty adamant that this is a game changer that insiders in the industry knew all to well was coming.

Ive thought something was ‘off’ for a while. Riding through stationary jams you can get that weird sooty ‘taste’. Hard to describe but diesel smells/tastes horrible. Hopefully this kills off diesel use or at least quick starts the end asap.

I also still remember some stw’ers advocating blanking too in regards to egr’s etc.

VW should be really made to suffer for this. Willfully **** with ALL our health in some way on a direct basis if you live in a city etc.

Facing the possibility of losing a £500 deposit, I’m seriously wondering whether to cancel the purchase of my (diesel) car today. 😐

I’ve got about 90 minutes before I’m supposed to leave to do the deed.

Change the order to a petrol? Would you lose it though? Considering their product isnt really as described? 😀

I suspect with diesels it’ll be a long slow drawn out decline, due to the sheer number of cars on the road.

Almost glad mine is now at 120k. Definitely glad I’m not in Krytons shoes /\/\/\

I used diesel vans all day at work and even though some are the latest BlueTec Mercedes engines the fumes are awful to be around. The amount of diesel cars I see on my commute puffing out soot (even the new ones) tells me this story may well be the tip of the iceberg. I just get the feeling that diesels test well due to their inherent pro’s but used every day by the general public give massively different results. Maybe the test is unfit for purpose if it cannot replicate real-life usage. Whatever, I get a feeling this will be story that takes a long time to play out fully.

I was 50/50 whether to go for the diesel or petrol version of my Fabia last year, the extra £2k for diesel just swung it to petrol for me. Looks like I made the correct decision judging by all of this 🙂

As mentioned before I’ve already signed the papers for PCP with a guaranteed future value, so I have that. The worst that could happen is that its recalled to be modified, or replaced.

Diesel isnt going to vanish from the pumnps overnight.

Just a couple of points, then I’ll leave you kids to carry on
😉

Parking restrictions impact business.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-33550763

IMO, there appears to be a consistently present elephant in the room, during debates about car use and pollution, etc. That being the anti car types who never seem to get round to addressing some significant issues:

i, Do they actually own/use/rely on the use of a car?

ii, If diesel is now to become overly villified, leading to signigicant financial losses for diesel car owners. What could and/or should be done about that?

iii, Are car emissions the sole cause of breathing related health issues?

I’ll state that I do own and use cars and they’re both diesel powered.

Facing the possibility of losing a £500 deposit, I’m seriously wondering whether to cancel the purchase of my (diesel) car today.

I’ve got about 90 minutes before I’m supposed to leave to do the deed.

Dont worry.
At least you arent that guy thats going to get forced by his wife to spend £3k on some curtains or have a stove he doesnt want..

I do try very hard not to use our car, it’s really an occasional bike carrier to be honest, probably gets used once a week / fortnight which I think is enough. Walk / ride for local stuff and train for further afield.

However, I am fairly horrified at this news, it is a VAG diesel and I am appalled at the damage I could have been doing. Will have to think about what we do though now as I swore long ago never to own another hateful bloody petrol powered car.

At least you arent that guy thats going to get forced by his wife to spend £3k on some curtains

Its amazing how some people cant read or interpret a post…

Well I’m off to pick up our new VW diesel powered Skoda in an hour.

**** the ice caps!

Well I’m off to pick up our new VW diesel powered Skoda in an hour

😀

Of course there is a plus side to this maybe – what if one/some manufacturers were proven to have not cheated the tests and are achieving the mpg/emissions legitimately? Maybe the value of thier cars would increase?

what if one/some manufacturers were proven to have not cheated the tests and are achieving the mpg/emissions legitimately?

Given that BMW are one of the main culprits in misleading customers with false information I think you have excellent grounds for negociating your way out of your contract Kryton with lots of threats of legal action if they don’t refund your deposit. You signed in ignorance and now have information which meands you can no longer morally drive such a car.

You knew after my posts on the petrol v diesel thread eight months ago but now you have a mass of magazine articles to support your decision.

When you know there’s a problem, don’t be apart of it. Don’t be a part of poisoning people when you could drive something that would poison them less, and if you choose wisely produce no more CO2. May I suggest a VW Touran TSi.

Wheres the evidence? Nothing has been proven against BMW yet. And surely the same stands in a couple of weeks if I’m driving the car – I have the same grounds for giving it back and terminating the contract.

Can krypton sue everyone on here who’s been pushing skodas for the last few yrs? He’d make up any loss in value of it when the Eco police de tune it if he could… 😉

i, Do they actually own/use/rely on the use of a car?
ii, If diesel is now to become overly villified, leading to signigicant financial losses for diesel car owners. What could and/or should be done about that?
iii, Are car emissions the sole cause of breathing related health issues?

I) yes, it’s a VW diesel
Ii) Nothing if what you’re hinting at is some sort of government scheme
Iii) No but it’s one of the primary causes and fixable so absolutely no reason not to. “Whataboutery” isn’t a good argument.

Plenty has been proven about BMW; The only thing that hasn’t been proven is they they have been deliberately cheating, just making cars that perform better in tests. Their cars are amongst the dirtiest in real use:

The Times

You’ll have to pay for the full article or the results of the tests they commisioned

Why aren’t the Euro2/3/4/5/6 emissions tests part of the MOT?

Good point. Emissions are tested at MOT, so what are the tests based on / guideline figures come from?

Wheres the evidence? Nothing has been proven against BMW yet

Nothing had been proven against VW yet, until they got caught.

Scary this. My Yeti I traded in on Saturday. On Monday the news really broke….Just remember the systems are developed in some cases by Bosch, Delphi, so it begs the question is it likely the other manufacturers have done it?

JeZ

re mot – nox isn’t tested, see p9

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/346222/emissions_17th_edition.pdf

Nothing had been proven against VW yet, until they got caught.

Also true for BMW who are one of two manufacturers to date – the other being Ford – to have released a statement denying any cheating in tests.

Also true for BMW who are one of two manufacturers to date – the other being Ford – to have released a statement denying any cheating in tests.

Daimler and Jaguar Land Rover have also denied any test cheating.

“Riding through stationary jams you can get that weird sooty ‘taste’. Hard to describe but diesel smells/tastes horrible.”

Yeah – i get that . Smells like unburnt petrol normally…

Unless your behind my landy in which case smells like chips 😀