Views on "ammending" natural trails

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  • Views on "ammending" natural trails
  • Jim Bowen
    Member

    don't interfere with the forces of nature 😉

    titusrider
    Member

    your unridable is someone elses challenge id be telling you to leave off

    woodland singletrack and pruning, even a little berming etc id be more happy with

    TheBrick
    Member

    I agree with titusrider. Any pictures though?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Rearranging the trail to make it easier – no.
    Pruning, tidying, repairing – yes.

    So yeah, what Titus said

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    triming greenery so you can fit through the trees is probably ok, moving rocks and stuff about to make it easier for you possibly not.

    All the trails change over time anyway due to normal use and weather erosion. Go back in 5 years and it'll be rideable.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    Yup Titus has it.

    As above, your unridable is another guys sketchy, is another guys walk in the park.

    yunki
    Member

    your unridable is another guys sketchy, is another guys walk in the park.

    Not only that… but your unrideable could well be someone elses favourite section..

    I don't like the OP's perverted tendency one little bit..

    theflatboy
    Member

    ammending trails on your own private land = fine. amending trails on land that anybody can ride ? fine.

    there's nothing worse than the feeling when you get to a favourite bit of trail and some **** has "improved" it to their own tastes, ruining it forever for you. i can think of several examples when this has happened to me, all of them still fill me with rage. 😡

    thomthumb
    Member

    Example: riding at the weekend on a very tricky bridleway descent in the Lakes. Some sections are pretty much unrideable (unless you're Hans Rey) but could be "ammended" to be less unrideable by shifting rocks around.

    i think you need to get as good as hans rey not ruin his trail (if you see what i mean)

    oldgit
    Member

    Leave it.
    Written many times about people 'ammending' trails. My pet hate is trails that are altered for downhill fun, but in doing so making them unrideable going up.

    I'm for maintenance, especialy where a lot of sudden MTB useage will totally erode the trail.

    kezzab
    Member

    By natural trails I mean non-trail centre, I appreciate most trails are man made to one degree or another!

    Example: riding at the weekend on a very tricky bridleway descent in the Lakes. Some sections are pretty much unrideable (unless you're Hans Rey) but could be "ammended" to be less unrideable by shifting rocks around.

    My personal view tends to be ride it as you find it and if you can't ride it that's your problem. But sometimes I am tempted to start "fixing".

    What's your view?

    ChrisF
    Member

    Most 'natural' trails in mountain areas will get rearranged by the weather every winter anyway. Leave it be.

    A lot of the Peak trails get scoured by heavy rain runoff a few times a year and this can change the 'feel' of them and the way they ride.

    Premier Icon ahwiles
    Subscriber

    or, most 'natural' trails in mountain areas will get rearranged every time it rains, i don't see how you can do much 'damage' on your own…

    what are we talking about here? – moving a couple of loose rocks, scraping out a drainage channel with a stick…?

    it's a bridleway, sooner or later the local ROW bods will come along, and either hammer it flat or downgrade it to a footpath and cover it in massive rock steps.

    i'm not suggesting you should do whatever you want, but compare your vision of what you're thinking about, with what will happen the next time it rains, or the trail gets 'maintained'.

    Teddy Bare
    Member

    "Serious" Northern riders are apparently a bunch of hard b@stards who like nothing better than fighting their way up/over/down rocky, boulder-strewn "paths" and rounding it all off with a meal of raw babies washed down with tea you can stand a concrete pillar up in…

    If they find you, they'll crush you slowly to death between their arse cheeks, which are made of steel, of course.

    Premier Icon Onzadog
    Subscriber

    Leave it as it is please.

    Riding recently with some people that I'd not ridden with before. They took a section out of a guide book ride as they said it was silly and totally unrideable. When we got there, we realised what they were talking about and it's a lovely bit of track. I was really gutted that we missed it out. I certainly wouldn't want someone shifting boulders off it.

    I can't ride most of Doctors Gate, but I guess someone somewhere quite likes that topography!

    yesiamtom
    Member

    If its possible make a way around it without actually damaging any of the existing trail. Without a picture its hard to give an example but just an alternative route basically.

    Brown
    Member

    I posted about this sort of thing happening a couple of years back when someone knocked a whole through a berm and uprooted a tree to avoid a drop. The berm and drop were made unrideable because someone wasn't good enough to ride them (plenty of people were!).

    I got told I was elitist and that it was absolutely fine. 😐

    Really good to see that people's opinions are changing! 😀

    EDIT – 'alternative routes' around things definitely fall under the banner of erosion/path widening in my book.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    "Serious" Northern riders are apparently a bunch of hard b@stards who like nothing better than fighting their way up/over/down rocky, boulder-strewn "paths" and rounding it all off with a meal of raw babies washed down with tea you can stand a concrete pillar up in..

    What utter rubbish we drink beer like that to wash babies down with not 'oooh laaa de daaa tea'.

    glenp
    Member

    Every time you ride it, you ARE changing it yourself. What most people want is for the erosion not to be accelerated. If it just so happens that the bits you enjoy most are most eroded ones then you will only get them that way for a short period of time before the water and tyre skidding does its stuff. As it gets more and more unrideable for most people (hey, not the Hans Reys on here!) then usually trail creep will start and a new line will form. The trail creep can be just as bad (worse even) than the ad-hoc dumbing of the original trail.

    So there's no win, other than intelligent patching of the "natural" trail, especially managing the water.

    Premier Icon Pook
    Subscriber

    If its possible make a way around it without actually damaging any of the existing trail. Without a picture its hard to give an example but just an alternative route basically.

    This really annoys me. You end up with massive trails with chicken runs all round them, and then we get a bad name for damaging the countryside!

    🙁

    parkedtiger
    Member

    Where's the bridleway in question Kezzab ?

    kezzab
    Member

    @parkedtiger

    I kept that quiet so we could get into the principle of the thing rather than the specifics of a particular trail.

    However, having said that the trail in question is the bridleway that drops from the top of Honister quarry down to Buttermere. In my view it's pretty savage for the vast majority of riders on "normal" bikes. No doubt there'll be someone along now to say it's a walk in the park and they'd piss it on a road bike. Ride it and decide for yourself.

    As i said in the OP, i prefer to leave trails as you find them, just tempted sometimes. There's already enough activity by "Fix the Fells" to ruin good trails without me contributing.

    k

    jimster
    Member

    Leave them, just keep practising them.

    parkedtiger
    Member

    kezzab – I've never cleared that descent; never had the balls to have a crack at that gap half way down 😯

    Even if you or I did choose to move anything around, no doubt it would all shift in the next downpour anyway ! That's one of the reasons I love riding around here – nothing stays the same for very long.

    Premier Icon ahwiles
    Subscriber

    a question for the cognoscente of STW, re' Doctors Gate:

    does anyone actually ride this trail?

    or, mostly, is it a case of 'carried my bike down it once – can't be bothered doing it again' … ?

    kezzab
    Member

    parkedtiger – that's just one of the several bits that puts the shitters up me! Bloody great descent though, proper 100% concentration, get it wrong and it'll probably hurt a lot, real lose you teeth stuff. Fun times.

    I'd agree with Titus except for the berms bit, adding berms just prescribes exactly how you must ride the corner, maybe other folk don't want to ride it that way

    (confessions of one who can't ride berms 😳 )

    stratobiker
    Member

    Ride/not ride it as you find it.
    Leave no trace/or a little as poss' of your passing.

    SB

    Premier Icon househusband
    Subscriber

    Suspect I might upset some 'trailbuilders' over the next few weeks when I take down one particular jump they've built in woods a few miles away. It is right in the middle of a footpath that dogwalkers and horseriders also use; they've built loads (some if it quite impressive) in another part of the wood – but they've been inconsiderate and thoughtless with one that annoys me as it's smack in the middle, with foliage on one side and trees on the other.

    Premier Icon swavis
    Subscriber

    Rode that trail at the weekend also. Absolutely brilliant the way it was, the fun was in the challenge of trying to clean it all. Had to take a few dabs and would like to try it on flats, but I don't think it needed to be altered in any way.
    It was my first time down in the Lakes and I was blown away.

    Edric 64
    Member

    jump builders wreck woods all over the place

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I guess the exception I'd make is drainage, I know some people love mud but if you can cut a drain and help stabilise a bit of trail that'd otherwise be wet and cut up, that seems to me to be the right thing to do. Everyone benefits other than the mudlovers and they can find their own… But big muddly wallows cut across with tyre tracks are one of the things that really annoys other trail users.

    DickBarton
    Member

    Leave it as it is – if you can't ride it how it is then you need to improve – so do that instead (improve rather than dumbing it down nd ruining it for everyone).

    I also don't understand this mentality at trail centres…the trail has been designed for best bang for the buck and is built…yet riders still think they can 'improve' the trail by making it easier (i.e. straight lining it – wtf???).

    Depends what you mean by unridable. Difficult corners, looseness, drops, steps and root bundles are just difficult for you, so leave them. You always need a challenge. [How boring would it be if you could clean every trail you knew?]

    But badly drained, obstructed, or debris strewn trails seem fair game. Most of my improvements are just pruning and clearing debris. I don't think I'd want to do earthworks though.

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    What about sections that have been ruined by other users rather than sections that are "naturally" too hard? I'm thinking of a bit of bridleway I'm about to ride this evening which has been ridden up frequently by motocrossers in the wet, digging a ditch up the climb which is too deep to pedal up without pedal strike. A bit of pickaxe action could make it usable again.

    "A bit of pickaxe action could make it usable again."

    Are you planning to lie in waiting? 😉

    lobby_dosser
    Member

    what about making things rideable/more sustainble rather than dumbing down? When you go to places like North Shore in Canadia, some of the old school trails have strategically placed rocks in transitions etc to make things rideable- but still not dumbing them down.

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber
    kezzab
    Member

    Swavis – you rode it with me you wazzock!

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