Videoing the commute?

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  • Videoing the commute?
  • Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    it’ll turn you into a youtube commuting warrior. You’ll end up looking for confrontation rather than actively avoiding it. IMHO

    scratch
    Member

    I know what you mean,

    I’ve been riding to work for 8 years, always obey the rules of the road, there’s a couple of tight sections on quite a busy road where a truck will have to wait to pass for 4/500 meters, I pretty much always pull over at these points to allow traffic to pass, I’m doing my best and not actively looking for trouble.

    Just gets a bit much when all you really want to do is ride in to work without being taken out….

    allthepies
    Member

    geoffj wrote:

    it’ll turn you into a youtube commuting warrior. You’ll end up looking for confrontation rather than actively avoiding it. IMHO

    This is not true of course 🙂

    I now use a helmet cam for my commute and have yet to post ranty videos up to youtube or “look for confrontation”.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    i was just passed by a guy commuting thru brentford with one of these

    mounted the other way up on his stem with a cable going to his backpack

    project
    Member

    it’ll turn you into a youtube commuting warrior. You’ll end up looking for confrontation rather than actively avoiding it. IMHO

    Load of shit, so all natioanl express buses and coaches are fitted with cctv for the same reason, along with telematics that send real time reports aboput location and speed , aceleration and braking back to base garage/depot.

    Lots of info here

    http://www.cyclecameratv.co.uk/

    trail_rat
    Member

    i use a discrete roadhawk for this job – after i was taken fully out by someone just not looking where they were going who went on to try and blame me for damage to his car.

    contrary to the opinion above – i dont go looking for confrontation , infact ive had maybe 2 incidents worth recording on it since i got it 15 or so months ago.

    i have how ever picked up a few incidents with other people – and handed the footage in.

    what i dont do is put the footage up on youtube because for the most part neither party comes out of those shit slinging matches very well. as geoff says most of the youtube warriors are usually in just about as much the wrong as the car driver.

    if anything i ride more careful with it – as remember it works both ways. it shows if your being a knob too …..

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    OK, so my initial response may have been a bit tongue in cheek, but I do think that there can be a tendency to pursue a confrontation rather than avoid it, if you believe that you are in the right, feeling threatened AND you will be collecting evidence to support you.
    It’s also another bit of faff to worry about.
    But I don’t commute and road ride mainly on quiet country roads with little traffic.

    Premier Icon nach
    Subscriber

    Yes, it works both ways.

    Some people reckon a camera on your lid modifies drivers behaviour too; hard to quantify but I seemed to get a lot less hassle after starting to wear a Contour for commutes.

    Also yet to post any self-righteous guff to youtube.

    scratch
    Member

    I would never post it to youtube, no interest in that, I just wanted it for evidence for when something does happen.

    Which model are you using Trail rat?

    scratch
    Member

    Just been brushed by a coach on the way to work, luckily enough the vehicle in particular had the company name on the back in huge letters…so I’ve just phoned to report the driver, I’ve never done this before but I’ve just had enough of it at the moment.

    Was thinking about a go-pro for the lid to give evidence of near misses, but, is it actually worth anything unless you get hit?
    Would anything come of reporting this stuff or am I just making a rod for my own back?

    AndrewJ
    Member

    I got given a Roadhawk Ride camera as part of my involvement with Cycle Scheme. It does the job nicely and is much cheaper than a Go Pro.

    To be honest it’s also made me a more careful rider as video evidence will work both ways.

    I’ve had one confrontation since I’ve been using it when a driver took exception to my displeasure when he got too close. As he started to rant at me I informed him he was being videoed and the incident had been videoed. He got back in his car in a huff and drove off.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    I own several helmet cameras at the minute (need to flog some actually, cheers for the reminder).

    But I don’t wear one on my commute, I think it does change motorists behavior towards you but it will push them to “extremes” potentially. I’m sure the majority will make more effort to avoid you, but there will be a few arses that take that bit more against you because you are another “Helmet-cam warrior looking for confrontation” in their eyes, and they will oblige…

    I did wear one on the road once, on a Sunday, riding to/from the woods to document my Gnarrness. The shitty looks I got from some motorists were a good indicator IMO of how many see cyclists with cameras, it sends an unintended message and they think we’re just out to shame them on Youtube…

    If I did commute with one, I’m not actually sure I’d mount it on my noggin, I’d maybe consider mounting it rear facing on the bike, I think that is where most of the danger’s come from, and catching the approach of a vehicle and its number plate might tell the police more…
    POV mounted Cameras don’t always capture the details you think they will…

    If only motorists paid enough attention to spot a go pro on a cyclist.

    trail_rat
    Member

    roadhawk ride HD

    battery life is 1hour 15 minutes- not the 1.30 they suggest. my commute is 45 minutes – 1 hour. charge it at both ends.

    footage is good.

    cant get on youtube but i posted a video from strathpuffer first lap shot from the roadhawk if you want an idea.

    think its called “puffer first lap minus the fire road”

    Premier Icon bails
    Subscriber

    it’ll turn you into a youtube commuting warrior.

    The thing with this is, if we treat it simply and assume you can:
    -either have a camera or not have a camera, and
    -be a gobby idiot who picks fights and puts it on youtube or not be a gobby idiot who picks fights and puts it on youtube

    then there are four possible ‘types’ of cyclist.

    If you’re a camera user who just gets home and deletes the footage every day (assuming you haven’t been run over) then no-one ever sees your riding.

    If you’re a non camera user who is calm and sensible then no-one ever sees your riding because it’s not recorded.

    If you’re a non camera user who rides like an idiot and/or takes exception and screams at every driver who comes within 6 feet then no one will find your videos on youtube because you don’t have a camera.

    If you’re a camera user who rides like an idiot and/or takes exception and screams at every driver who comes within 6 feet then and then puts it on youtube then people will see you riding like an idiot and assume that everyone who has a camera does the same. And also make the assumption that you wouldn’t be doing that if you didn’t have the camera. Actually, you probably would, it’s just that no one would see it!

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    And then of course there are the gobby YouTube warriors who have actually made a difference: getting dangerous drivers convicted, getting companies to discipline or educate drivers, and teaching cyclists about common road hazards and safe riding in traffic.

    (CycleGaz, for all the slagging he gets, is one of these people)

    trail_rat
    Member

    nope – he puts him self into a lot of those situations – of the videos ive seen he rides like a bell end.

    Premier Icon annebr
    Subscriber

    I’d quite like a little version of a Google streetview camera (with video rather than stills) to give a better all round view of what actually happens.

    POV is ok but not often where you actually need to be looking.

    cynic-al
    Member

    Has CycleGaz got anyone convicted? I wonder if you need GPS data (as mentioned on a similar car thread today)?

    He rides more assertively than I usually would (for a quiet life) but within a cyclist’s rights from what I have seen.

    I find it a bit tragic that he gets such a slagging from cyclists.

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    The shitty looks I got from some motorists were a good indicator IMO of how many see cyclists with cameras, it sends an unintended message and they think we’re just out to shame them on Youtube…

    isn’t this telling of drivers in general? The vast majority despise buslane/speed cameras, parking enforcement officers etc, they aren’t there to create/escalate confrontation they are only there incase a driver does something wrong*, follow the rules and we’ll all be peachy.

    I ride “assertively” without a camera, I seriously doubt getting a camera suddenly transforms you from gutter rider to primary militant super cyclist.
    Undecided on uploading to youtube, pretty sure I cba if I had a cam, claims of checking on a driver’s history on youtube after a collision sounds dubious to me.

    *hardly a fishing expedition either, these are things that are regularly flouted.

    brooess
    Member

    I find it a bit tragic that he gets such a slagging from cyclists.

    ^^^ this – if you weren’t there at the time and unless you’re a qualified cycle trainer, who are you to judge?

    Every regular cyclist I know has tales of outright aggression and generalised carelessness which has led to either personal injury or just a deeply unpleasant experience… and the main reason why the general public won’t ride is because they’re too scared.

    So whether we like ‘gobby YouTube’ cyclists or not, they serve a useful purpose in raising the public and Police’s awareness of the typical cyclist’s experience which will hopefully make riding safer and more pleasureable for us and everyone else in time…

    Premier Icon nach
    Subscriber

    That’s why head mounting is best for filming commutes, but second best to a chest mount for filming trails. It’ll get most of what you look at rather than just the road ahead.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    Has CycleGaz got anyone convicted?

    Yep. This is his most celebrated one:

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-ujuJXNq3w[/video]

    Video was evidence. Gaz appeared in court as a witness. Driver was found guilty of Careless Driving, 3 points on his license, £200 fine, £140 court costs and £15 victim surcharge.

    More details here: http://www.croydoncyclist.co.uk/rx11axp-result/

    Worth noting how Gaz uses multiple cameras to cover rear approach and the front view.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    So whether we like ‘gobby YouTube’ cyclists or not, they serve a useful purpose in raising the public and Police’s awareness of the typical cyclist’s experience

    Agreed.

    I think one reason we are seeing cycling safety being talked about more seriously these days is the rise in these videos demonstrating that it isn’t (always) cyclists riding dangerously that are causing issues, which sadly is often the perception.

    jacob46
    Member

    Thinking of getting a camera, alternatives to go pro with same quality?

    Premier Icon bails
    Subscriber

    GrahamS: Agreed. Just look at that cyclegaz video. Was he or the cyclist who was nearly hit ‘asking for it’? Without the camera the driver could have just said she snuck up the inside of him while he was moving slowly.

    Jacob: I use a contour HD. Probably not quite as good as the new go pros but a much better shape for helmet mounting.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    Was he or the cyclist who was nearly hit ‘asking for it’?

    Sadly, going by some of the YouTube comments (and even a comment on Croydon Cyclist!), we are such a car-centric society that some people watch that video and still blame the cyclist!

    e.g. comments like these:

    “Typical cyclists.. Always after blood when drivers make honest mistakes.. #Lycra-Taliban”

    “f***ots get off the road then, you are all little criminals looking for trouble! you deserve to be killed!, can a driver not make 1 mistake without being reported”

    “from the looks of it, it was the cyclist fault! floating around all over the road like its his!, the driver though he was gonna stay on the left”

    “she didn’t point her hand or signal, how the ***, is anyone ment to know where she is going, you all need to invest in a pare of indecaters”

    “all you little cyclist are ***** in the head to behonest!, there is so much left side road to use yet they go in the middle of the road, like this b**** did!, the driver was falsely convicted!”

    😯

    jacob46
    Member

    Bails thanks mate, just looked at muvi HD £119 amazon. Not bad! I’ll look at yours cheers.

    Premier Icon nach
    Subscriber

    Contour HD has good ergonomics, and the front assembly turns to level your shot (projects a laser line when you need it for doing that too). Video quality not quite as good as a gopro, and pretty pants in low light. The sliding on off switch is really affirmative and easy to use with gloves on. Recording at higher definition limits the field of view, only 720p lets you use the full angle of the lens.

    I’ve only played really briefly with a Garmin Virb, but it has a similarly chunky and affirmative switch.

    I’ve also been messing around with the new Shimano one; it makes audible beeps when you press the button to start and stop, and the beeps for each thing it’s doing have a nice and very obvious difference to them. Not as usable in gloves, but not overly difficult to find the button on top and push it. The mobile app seems to be well built and gives you straightforward access to settings. Footage quality is really good, it over-saturates colours a bit, copes well with high contrast scenes and does okay in low light (A bit smeary as you’d expect though). Compatible with gopro mounts, and the widest shot it can do is 180 (If you chest mount it, makes you look like Stretch Armstrong and even the slimmest arms flap like bingo wings over bumps. (Edit) Full res still of the widest mode: http://puu.sh/9ncqv/bb65c866bc.jpg). I’m still experimenting with it, but the convex lens protector makes ring shaped flares under some lighting conditions and, because it sticks out, is a bit of a magnet for dirt and water.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    The shitty looks I got from some motorists were a good indicator IMO of how many see cyclists with cameras, it sends an unintended message and they think we’re just out to shame them on Youtube…

    isn’t this telling of drivers in general? The vast majority despise buslane/speed cameras, parking enforcement officers etc, they aren’t there to create/escalate confrontation they are only there incase a driver does something wrong*, follow the rules and we’ll all be peachy.[/quote]

    I essentially agree, but I’m not about to test the principle that we should all get along regardless, by doing something which seems to disproportionately antagonize some drivers.

    My point is that I think seeing a Go-Pro on top of “some lefty, tree hugger on a bike” just get’s Mr Mondeo’s goat, these days everything makes him feel “Persecuted” Fuel tax, Road tax, Traffic jams and now some shit on a bicycle is trying to catch him out and get him in trouble with the rozzers, or start an argument just so you’ve got something to put on the internetz.

    Intent and perception are two different things. Yes you might simply be trying to ensure that should the worst happen the police have some useful video evidence and you are not unfairly blamed, but some drivers really don’t see it that way and I think their reactions might make certain situations worse, not better…

    For all the Good “CycleGaz” and his lot may have done, they have also helped paint a quite negative image of cyclists with helmet-cams being… well, argumentative Dicks.

    I’ve just asked some of the more vocal drivers in my office {I]”what do you think of these helmet camera’s on cyclist then?”[/I], they mostly seem to believe riding with a camera on the roads is done to try and “catch Drivers out” and that all we do is “Stick it on the internet and bitch about drivers”
    None of them seemed to even considered that it might simply be a bit of an insurance policy in case of an accident…

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    some drivers are incensed with cyclists being on the road at all, but you’re not going to advocate removing yourself coz of those anger mis-management headcases. (I’m fairly sure)

    But yeah there does seem to be an image of “Youtube helmetcam road warrior” in the public’s mind, pretty sure that is down to some media misrepresentation and a lot of wilful or ignorant confirmation bias.
    I know the youtube comments section is not a nice place at the best of times but graham’s quotes from people we presumably share the roads with are pretty damn scary.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    cookeaa: what do those same folk say about other road users with cameras? They are increasingly common on all vehicles especially taxis, buses, motorbikes and commercial vehicles.

    See http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/anyone-got-a-dashcam

    To be honest though, if a driver thinks “I could probably just squeeze past here without hitting him, but I better not because he’s probably one of those nobs with a camera” then, well, that’s just fine by me.

    (I don’t use a camera myself, but I’d consider gluing a black marker pen to my helmet if it had that effect 🙂 )

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    This is a good cam to helmet mount – HD quality for under £40
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-HD-1080P-DV-Waterproof-Mini-Sports-Camera-Bike-Helmet-Action-DVR-Video-Cam-/171350429427

    People who say you’ll go looking for trouble are idiots. Yeah, today I’m going to ride under a bus just so I get something good for Youtube.

    brooess
    Member

    But yeah there does seem to be an image of “Youtube helmetcam road warrior” in the public’s mind, pretty sure that is down to some media misrepresentation and a lot of wilful or ignorant confirmation bias.

    ^^^ this – the camera-wearing rider is not the cause of the problem.
    The anger and aggression was present in the driver when they got out of bed in the morning, and today’s target was the cyclist. Bear in mind that ‘road rage’ is used against all road users, not just cyclists…

    Cyclists don’t ‘make’ drivers angry in some sense that the driver is passive in the whole process. They’re angry people who have a need to persecute or otherwise vent… they just pick the easy target.

    If the media or a driver claims that someone wearing a camera on their helmet ‘made them angry’ then they’re being disingenuous at best

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    cookeaa: what do those same folk say about other road users with cameras? They are increasingly common on all vehicles especially taxis, buses, motorbikes and commercial vehicles.

    TBH I wasn’t expecting a reasoned debate on the topic, and I didn’t bother to point out that vehicle DVR use is on the up generally, I simply asked, as we have quite a “Car-centric” set in the office who can always be counted on to tow the Clarkson line… 😉

    At the end of the day I don’t think wearing a Camera contributes anything much to your safety, it just helps with apportioning blame after the fact…

    A Hi-Viz top with something witty on the back would be a better investment IMO…

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    pretty sure that is down to some media misrepresentation and a lot of wilful or ignorant confirmation bias.

    Someone in our local cycle campaign proudly announced that his video was appearing on the ITV “Road Rage Britain” show – I suggested he should be very wary of them misrepresenting it to suit the story thy want to tell.

    Now that it has aired he says he didn’t agree with all the “2 wheels versus 4” tribal hyperbole that they put with it.

    Surprise.

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    Surprise.

    aye, started with road rage and ended up 2 vs 4 wheels. Mrs was watching it I was on the PC tried not to watch but got drawn in. Bigging up the rage bit a lot. Van driver was moaning about wind, weather and swallowing flies while riding “we can see van driver is starting to show the signs of bike rage” rage? WTF are you on about theakston? I complain about the cold in winter and heat in summer do I have weather rage? Think they did something similar when the lady started driving the van “oh it’s quite nice not being intimidated around the road” somehow became “Lady cyclist takes on white van man persona”

    Also why the **** don’t the programme makers freeze the video and do a voice over correction for the audience whenever some **** says “I pay road tax, I’ve paid for the road you haven’t” and not just a road tax was abolished in 1936 pedantry the fact that it’s ved which cyclists and some motorists don’t pay and it still doesn’t pay for the ****ing roads. Too many people believe this bollocks argument, airing it again without a correction is really not helping.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    I simply asked, as we have quite a “Car-centric” set in the office who can always be counted on to tow the Clarkson line… 😉

    Which is odd because Clarkson drives all time with cameras and even an entire film crew 😀

    Premier Icon nickb
    Subscriber

    That looks like a bit of a bargain. Is the video quality good enough – can you read details like number plates?

    Cheers,

    Nick

    The main question on my mind after watching a selection of these you tube videos is does anyone manufacture a solid brass or stainless steel mini pump, around 10 inches long with a snap fitting holder, something small but weighty.

    brooess
    Member

    airing it again without a correction is really not helping.

    how cynical do you need to be to believe the programme makers knew full well they’re peddling a myth? Just the TV equivalent of clickbait surely?

    trail_rat
    Member

    joolsburger – zefal frame fit pump filled with sand 😉

    Gary_M
    Member

    That does look like a bargain. What weight is the camera and whats the run time.

    Thanks.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    I shall not respond to anyone getting my name wrong 😛

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