this is a deeply poignant gesture that really makes a thought provoking statement..

A well deserved poke in the eye to all those red faced shouty folk who so disrespectfully harp on about poppies, and war memorials and heroism to selfishly further their own very personal and insecure agendas

lovely stuff

2 sugars & have you got any Lemon Puffs?

Was going to bite but deep breath and take this for the troll that it is obviously intended to be.

I will bite!

Not sure this is a troll but I think there is a great difference between wars that were fought years ago – WWI, WWII – and actions taking place now. Iraq in particular.

We visit many Commonwealth War Graves commission cemeteries out of respect for those who fought and died. Some of those graves are those of people to whom we are related. I don’t think we are red-faced and shouty type people… Our visits are to remember these people whether we are related to them or not.

End of.

yunki’s probably still stoned on ‘shrooms.

I won’t bite.
Not today.

Bite? I admire their stance. Lets not pretend war is good.
However, these are in the main, damaged folks. Griffin is a classic PTSD case, and Devlin is a recovering alcoholic with a history in far-right politics (and time in pokey for it).
Veterans for peace could find themselves some better poster boys and better and more accurate information. Reading their site, they do come over like a bunch of ****s.

I’m not saying that everyone who visits a war memorial or wears a poppy deserves a poke in the eye..
Nor am I saying that they are all red faced and shouty.

This is more a dig at those sorts of people who try to hijack the poppy and it’s symbolism for nationalistic purposes, or the people who have never lifted a finger to help their country but will get all up in arms and quite aggressive about showing respect for the fallen or those that fly into a rage over tiny kids climbing on a memorial..
And indeed, the people who get all ranty at the thought of the white poppy movement

You can lazily denounce me as a stoned troll if it suits you, but I personally find the actions of these three veterans much, much more moving than the jingoistic remembrance services with all their pomp and ceremony..

Thankfully the op’s views are a tiny minority….. the vast majority of the British public respect and honour our rememberance memorials and give thanks for the sacrifice those serving in the past and in the present have made and are making for our freedom.

I’ll see if these 3 want to pop round to Yunkis shall I, see what he’s on about. (the one on the right is my mate Stu, ex Royal Marine, shot an Argentinian Skyhawk down) 😆

[url=https://flic.kr/p/fUQGN5]Stu[/url] by jimmyg352, on Flickr

He’s a bit patriotic mind.

Ha ha ha

nice one yunki — brave and couragous men who are prepared to stand against the state and its war machine…

brave and couragous men who are prepared to stand against the state and its war machine…

Civilians?

Quite. But I bet none of them voted for blair. I wonder how many are apologising for their part in that?

Ok.. I’m going to apologise for this thread..
It wasn’t meant as a troll, I am genuinely interested in different ways of expressing our feelings about war and active service and the ways in which we remember the fallen
Essel, I’m not intimidated by your snapshot.. I live in a town that every RM passes through as a new recruit, a good third of everyone I know has a father who was a marine, or is themselves a marine or ex marine, or is married to a marine.. I chat with marines every day in the playground of my kids school.. I drink with marines and ride bikes with them too
I’m not ashamed of my view, but I am truly sorry for the timing of this thread after seeing the Srebrenica thread this morning

And prehaps you should contemplate why events like Srebrenica are why we actually need Armed Forces; and why not every single conflict is due to red faced shouty people?

I certainly understand why people may have strong feelings about the morality or execution of recent conflicts such as Iraq, but please don’t insult the thousands who have served, or those who respectfully remember the fallen.

Nothing to apologise for over the timing yunki. Anniversaries like this are a good time to be thinking about peace and to be honest there are so many such anniversaries that they are probably a weekly occurrence.

but I personally find the actions of these three veterans much, much more moving than the jingoistic remembrance services with all their pomp

…me too.
But it appears people don’t like to hear the truth about war.

Essel, I’m not intimidated by your snapshot.

It wasn’t meant to be intimidating, It’s the only shot I’ve got of 3 ex forces blokes together!
All proud blokes & would live (or lose?) their lives in the forces again.
Yes, war & having to fight for what you believe in is crap but It’s been going on since Adam was a lad. People are always going to sign up & the majority fully understand the risks, only the very naive wouldn’t.
I work with a lot of ex forces lads, army, navy & RAF & from what I gather (from comments at work, FB etc) they’d all do it again, from the Falklands, Northern Ireland, Bosnia & Iraq. I reckon the fellas in the OP are in the minority but hat’s off to them for doing what they did all the same.

Every sailor I ever met who went down south in May 1982 was extremely quiet about the whole thing, a good friend who lost 22 mates in one hour on HMS Ardent point blank refused to discuss it with anyone apart from those who were with him at the time. You cannot respect lost comrades if you brag about war, therefore in conclusion I would imagine every true veteran is a Veteran for Peace, the braggarts are always walts !

But it appears people don’t like to hear the truth about war.

People on remembrance parades that know more “truth” about war than you ever will.

People on remembrance parades that know more “truth” about war than you ever will.

I really dislike this attitude. You don’t have to be a veteran to be qualified to discuss such things. Us civvies may not be traumatised by the experiences in the same way, but it does not mean that we cannot be grateful and appreciative of people’s service. Likewise it does not mean we cannot feel uneasy about the hijacking of the symbol of remembrance and quiet contemplation about the horrors of conflict by the gung ho ‘Britain First’ types to encourage jingoism and warmongering. At the end of the day, whether we like it or not, British Forces fight, kill and get killed in ALL of our names, and on our democratic mandate. When that is abused by politicians such as has happened in recent times, I can understand why people may be cynical. To be so is not unpatriotic, it is realistic.

People on remembrance parades that know more “truth” about war than you ever will.

+ 1 for that Wrecker.
Not every person who joins up will see conflict though. I had 2 uncles in the navy, one saw serious action in WW2 including Arctic convoys & chasing the Bismark round the Atlantic, the younger one was in for 35 years ending up as a Fleet Chief Petty Officer & never saw a shot fired in anger. (apart from some gunboat belonging to some African country that was getting arsey, the RN sank it)

I really dislike this attitude.

Why? It’s a fact.

You don’t have to be a veteran to be qualified to discuss such things.

I never said that you did. What I dislike (as well as the BF type hijacking you mention) is people who try to (sometimes literally) piss on the parade of veterans (and anyone else who cares enough to remember the sacrifice made by others), who take one day a year to remember their fallen, just to prove a point about how shit war is. Of course it’s shit, and nobody knows this more than the people who have taken part in it.
So by all means be anti war, we all should be, but don’t put it on the people who have had to go and do it at the request of the electorate.

Well said Wrecker…
Was just about to put up a very similar post

That’s what they and countless others fought for, the right of freedom of speech. I may not agree with their views but I respect their right to express their opinions.

Why? It’s a fact.

I never disputed the FACT, I disliked the inference. It came across as the cheap shooting down of a valid opinion by use of a vicarious “But you weren’t there man, you dont understand!”. If this was not how it was meant, then I apologise.

What I dislike… is people who try to (sometimes literally) piss on the parade of veterans

I’m fairly sure no one on this thread is doing that. Certainly Lady Gresley who your comment was in response to did not appear to be pissing on anybody, just offering an opinion.

So by all means be anti war, we all should be, but don’t put it on the people who have had to go and do it at the request of the electorate.

Again, I’m fairly sure nobody was.

We can’t handle the truth.

I didn’t infer anything, I pointed out that people on

jingoistic remembrance services with all their pomp

know the truth about war very well. And calling them “jingoistic” in a very selective quote is a fairly clear dig.

OK wrecker I’ll respond to that..

Let me just state for the record that I have never caused anyone on a remembrance day parade to feel uncomfortable or disrespected.. I did once fail to observe the minute’s silence, but I was sat at home and I honestly don’t think that anyone noticed..

You’re one of the red faced shouty people that I’m talking about.. I can tell it from the tone in your posts..

Shouting at people for not buying a poppy, getting arsey when people feel a bit uncomfortable with military spectacle.. jingoistic I ‘spect too and full of pride at the efforts of ‘our boys’.. sneering and snarling at the thought of white poppies.. I bet your teeth are grinding just reading this..

Ok.. maybe you’re not like that all but that’s the type of people that I feel deserve to get the full force of the message those three chaps were sending out with their gesture

I understand what remembrance is and what it is for and I respect that, but say what you like, it’s a recruitment drive at the same time along with armed forces day and a gazillion other parades and ceremonies.. we get them all year round in the military town where I live
I know what remembrance is for, but there is no getting around the fact that all the glamorous parading about is a magnet for dewy eyed kids wanting to be heroes and dress all smart, and hoping with all their hearts that one day they can be just like those big brave soldiers with their shiny boots and chiselled jaws and heavy, dark, exciting guns.. Help for Heroes!

It looks for all the world like a celebration (I know it’s not) to a young lad.
‘look dad, it’s the guys with the guns and the marching band!’

I think organisations that stand for peace such as the one in the article and the white poppy movement deserve to be recognised and represented too, just to take the jingoistic edge off the day and make the ceremony a little bit more realistic.. To take the wind out of the sails of the red faced shouty people

Travelling in Vietnam at the moment and struggling to come to terms with what shouty red faced people did to the Vietnamese and their country. They have been the most charming, hospitable people I have met over years of travelling. Remembrance is about recognising the horror of what happens to everyone involved when it is the option chosen by a nation’s leaders. If you really want to see glorification I think the US does a particularly nauseating line in revisionist history and celebration of war.
I’m happy to remember my two grandfathers who fought in WWI and my dad who flew Hurricanes in the last war. I think Yunki’s last post is spot on.

I’ve obviously been away for too long, who on earth are the red faced shouty people and when did remembrance day became a glorification of war and not a solem day of remembrance?

You’re one of the red faced shouty people that I’m talking about.. I can tell it from the tone in your posts..

Shouting at people for not buying a poppy, getting arsey when people feel a bit uncomfortable with military spectacle.. jingoistic I ‘spect too and full of pride at the efforts of ‘our boys’.. sneering and snarling at the thought of white poppies.. I bet your teeth are grinding just reading this..

You’re so far wide of the mark it’s funny. I appreciate all the effort you’ve put into it though yunki. Very well written (even if completely untrue).
I actually agree with much of what you say in the remainder of your post, but at it’s base it’s an act of rememberance no matter how some with vested interests dress it up.

I’m obviously not making my point very well 🙂

Red faced shouty people –

Shouting at people for not buying a poppy, getting arsey when people feel a bit uncomfortable with military spectacle.. jingoistic I ‘spect too and full of pride at the efforts of ‘our boys’.. sneering and snarling at the thought of white poppies.. I bet your teeth are grinding just reading this..

This will invariably include:

Britain First supporters
UKIP voters
People who comment on stories on the Daily Mail website
The increasing number of people young and old that blame Muslims, immigrants and poor people for everything that goes wrong in their life.. From cancer, terrorism, unemployment and austerity to exam results, the contents of their packed lunch and granny sharting at Christmas dinner last year..

wrecker and stewartc – I think you’re being obtuse.. read my previous post

I’m sure they exist yunki, but as pawsy bear said;

I may not agree with their views but I respect their right to express their opinions.